WIP - Steampunk movie camera project and still camera project

[Miss Groves]

okay, i have LOTS of ideas for practical devices and working 'props'
i'm not good with wood quite frankly and i need some advice / brainstorming from all you crafty people.

small story here if you can be bothered to read:
I just got inspired today when my dad dug out an 8mm projector from the storage loft.
I helped clean it up and remembered where his old 8mm camera was and an OHP screen he could use to show film on.
I just had a total suprise when he called me downstairs and i saw film of myself as a toddler in germany.

It totally caught my imagination and wondered about early film etc.
I found clockwork movie cameras on ebay and i would like to make something that would be acceptable in steamy style.
I can apply old type effects using digital software so i could recreate the look and feel of that film camera BUT getting a real clockwork camera working and practical would be very difficult.

I would like to use some cheap digital capture device but incorporate it into something that looks appropriate to Steam.
If i did it myself it would be a horrible wooden box.

i'd like something with a little style, preferably with a clockwork key that could keep turning while i was filming, a tripod screw mount (i have a brass military early tripod i'd like to use with it)
So guys n gals,
any ideas?

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

A nice cheat is to use wood veneer,you can build a lightweight plastic superstructure which is quite a complex shape, and then cover with wood veneer, tidying it up with a matching wood filler. I have done a couple of pieces that way bringing down to Oxford tomorrow, and both are working items. Model shops sell a nice set of plastics for model building construction, and they do a number of structural supports you can use, easy cut (scissors/junior hacksaw, and glue. Worth buying a cheap needle file set as well.

You can also use modellers brass sheet, you can cut the thinnest grade with scissors, and providing you are gluing it to a solid surface it looks terrific. Glue with araldite rapid, and cover the exterior face with Masking tape before gluing.

Best bet is to create a box around the camera, so that it screws together. That way you do not invalidate the warranty.You can either leave a hole to operate buttons , or create a false button, as is set out elsewhere on this forum.

One option I used for my camera phone is to get a kodak folding brownie and cut it back so you just have the bellows and lens mechanism, this is for show only, it folds out looking wonderfully anachronistic with an iphone back and folding camera front. The camera shoots through a separate aperture, but itreally misdirects people, everyone initially wonders how it shoots through the lens. Doing it this way would allow you to hang it round your neck

[J. Wilhelm]

I have had similar thoughts.  My grandparents (who raised me as a son) had tons of reels dating back to the 1930's, and then continued the format until the 1970's with a 60's era Bell and Howell? portable camera that (gasp! I think it still is functioning and in my possession!).

My family movies span from the 30's through the 1980's!!.  I Involved myself in a project to use an inexpensive 1990's analog VHS colour camcorder to capture the projection onto a plank of white Formica, from a really, very fine 1970's German projector (also in my possession) capable of using the 8mm format!  Without sound I would connect the camcorder to a CVD/DVD recorder and dub-in classical music (i.e. Chopin, as some movies involved family members playing piano!)  The results were nothing short of spectacular.

Unfortunately, I dare not modify in any way the movies camera, nor the projector, which happen to be in really very "new" condition and are quite collectible all by themselves!   So I guess it boils down to "wrapping" the whole contraption in some sort of "box."  Maybe with a diaphragm mechanism like a giant Victorian camera, as suggested above by Mr. Harrow (but perhaps custom made to size), perhaps?

[Miss Groves]

hmm interesting thoughs from you both and certainly will be making me rootle through the supplies in the garage now.

in no particular order:
Years ago when i was interested in pinhole cameras i made up a bellows pattern from paper and folding, so i could use that technique for bellows type things.

Interesting to 'fake' a camera and have a false aperture/turret

veneer! why the heck didn't i think of that...and the thin brass sheet...darn it

i have a very old portable webcam/videocam that doesn't take sound at all and is in low quality format, years old and waaaay out of warranty. Do you think it's possible to dissassemble it and rehouse it?

as much as i'd love to use 8mm film i wouldn't want to ruin anything vintage.

[Miles (a sailor)Martin]

hit the Lindsay Pubs web site  there are a couple of books on there about making cameras  using glass plate negatives , prices on the books are 15-30 dollars US plus shipping

[Miss Groves]

thanks mr martin, but not quite what i'm after.

Well...
i spent a LOT of time on ebay yesterday evening (when my computer wasn't randomly restarting)
I now have bids on:
a 2 bottle wooden wine box (yes there is method in my madness)
cheap (VERY) digital movie camera that takes SD cards

I've bought:
Brass radiator key
4 brass 22mm corners

already have:
tools
old clockwork kitchen timer
reference pictures of 1901-1930 movie cameras
varnish
leather for handle

Theory is:
the wooden box is slightly too long, it'll be cut down by 2 or 3 inches, sanded, varnished etc with brass corners at the base. I'll solder the radiator key to the old kitchen timer OR make hole, and epoxy putty it through a hole in the box.
The wooden box has a sliding side for ease of access.
Next part will be trying to do something with the lens. it hought maybe a brass lens turret, but the price of them was a little too much, so i have to think a little more.
Also i'm wondering if i need to dissassemble the camera at all .......

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Best not to dissassemble unless absolutely sure you can reassemble. The fake bellows is a good idea, but getting an old camera had the advantage of a lens and shutter, the option would be to otherwise get something to replicate this, a brass magnifying glass would provide the effect you are looking for I think and be much cheaper. Most such magnifying glasses have a screw connector to the handle, just put a small brass knob on it

[Miss Groves]

ooo never thought about a brass magnifying glass as lens stuff. thanks
bellows not needed though, early movie cameras i've been looking at had none, just lens mounted directly on the box.

Been using this site:
http://kodak.digitalfx.tv/html/cine.html
for reference pictures as well as a few other places.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Bellows make it more compact, but the effect you are going for is a double take, people think they know what they are seeing but on second look it is WTF! The lens should be big an showy, it is for misdirection, so a leather lens cap on a brass chain would work, you can make a big production of taking it off. Opening the camera does the same thing on my phone, it can take pictures either way, but so far only Herr Doktor figured out that this was misdirection, but he knows a thing or two about this

I presume the key will go into the timer and rotate and make a noise, ideally make it removable but attached with another brass chain, again more misdirection. Does the camera have a preview screen? That should be visible, perhaps with a little door, or perhaps a small velvet curtain to obscure .

[Miss Groves]

i have no concrete plans until everything is there in front of me.
Man you lot make me stretch my thinking.

Thanks Mr Harrow, many many valuable ideas from you.
I'm going to have to start drawing the plans up very soon.
I'll post them here as a progress report! *salutes*

[Miss Groves]

i've spent some time today looking at lenses and old cameras for parts.
After every fiber of my being screams at me not to go and junk a vintage item i decided that i would have to make my 'false' lens.
Having decided that making from scratch would be a total PITA*, I have a couple of options and the general idea for shape:
the big boy for movie camera http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boat-1-inch-thru-hull-brass-drain-tube-1-7-8-long_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19b5edcb94QQitemZ110426442644QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear
the smaller option for a sleeker look http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tube-Socket-Solid-Polished-Brass-19mm-Pairs-B526_W0QQitemZ140354702464QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_DIY_Material_Cabinets_Cupboards_MJ?hash=item20adcacc80

*PITA - pain in the arse

While looking at loads of vintage cameras i remembered that some of the old ones had a viewfinder on the top that you had to look through before taking a picture. It just screamed at me. Many of the cheaper digital cameras have a folding viewscreen...one camera+1 box with a few holes= modern digital box brownie.

i must be nuts....

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Yes the preview screen freaks people out, amongst the wood and the brass. Making a box brownie is smaller and lighter, my folding brownie iPhone is a nice size /weight to hang around the neck

[The Inventor]

I think this is a brilliant project!

And the advice above is amazing.
I am backing the notion of building a fake camera over something digital, it allows you to do a lot of stuff with the camera case itself that you might not be able to do otherwise by retrofitting an old camera.

Some other things you might want to think about would be,
a range finder ( mechanically it's not terribly difficult )
a light meter, cheap and available at second hand stores and the internet I'm sure.

[The Inventor]

Oh! And what about a wooden Tripod to mount it to for longer exposure photographs?

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Miss Groves has my permission to post my cameraphone pictures, which i sent when BG went AWOL for some reason trying to work off my phone upsets Flickr and photobucket, dreadfully, and the phone is my only access to BG. If anyone watching this thread finds them useful feel free to make your own variations on the theme with iPhones etc, I pods, or as in Miss Groves case a video camera

[Miss Groves]

sure thing mr Harrow!
They are fantastic and it looks like a pocket brownie too!

Mr Peter Harrows' fantastic case
   


As for my project i'm stumbling about with:
I have a brass german approx ww1 tripod that fits modern camera threads, it's a beauty in a leather case.
Thought i'd use that.
Hmm depending on how it goes (is doodling designs now) the viewfinder would either be a brass loop or the actual camera, i've not decided.
I also need a small supply of things like brass finnials etc so i've been raiding everything i can think of and come up short, so it's back to looking on ebay again.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Thank you Miss Groves, Google Craft Supplies Bradwell  they have lots of finials (I bought some nice acorn ones in the past) and have an on-line catalogue, with lots of brass things such as magnifying glasses, etc. They are also where I but my veneers. The do nice little line of clock making supplies as well

I did use the bellows and folding mechanism of a folding Kodak brownie in its construction, mimicking the design,  and at first sight I have had antique camera buffs interested in it as a rare and unusual antique, not realizing it is in fact an early iPhone. The camera I bought for £10 and I cut everything off which was unnecessary, built a plastic superstructure for the phone, and then cut light mahogany veneer and covered the entire thing. 

In a case of reality mimicking art, just after I finished it Kodak sued Apple for incorporating unauthorised Kodak technology into their phones.....

[Miss Groves]

*wanders off to molest Bradwells*
i'll try and scan in some doodles later of the directions i'm going in.
Maybe this should be a general thread for people making/modding but what the hell i'll carry on anyhow XD

[Miss Groves]

okays i have almost everything i need now.
1. the wooden wine box was perfect, not too big, not too small
2. found the mini dv and a usb cable for it (vista doesn't support the drivers but i THINK i still have a disc somewhere that might help.
3. brass radiator key
4. dissassembled old kitchen timer

problem is:
i have been outbid on every brass lens i have found, i can't afford as high as some of them have gone so i'm a little stumped..

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

I am in a similar position. I have just bought an Aiptek pocket cinema, and my intent is to run my portable DVD player through it in a 'Magic Lantern', literally the inverse of what you are trying to do. However I need a lens so I am going to fake one using a brass magnifying glass.

I have a couple of copper trumpets bought cheap recently, and I am considering using them as 'amplifiers' for the sound on the Magic Lantern.

[Miss Groves]

ooo i saw those when i was looking for drivers, brilliant idea.
I'm still doodling about and putting random bids on things so hopefully one will come up trumps.

The copper trumpets idea is also a good one, simple but will effectively do the job and also give the sound a 'tinny' quality that would really add to ambience!

[dman762000]

I have an old 16 mm camera that I have been dying to do someting with, the only thing is, can you still get film for these things?

[Miss Groves]

16mm kodak movie film: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lot-of-sealed-Kodachrome-II-Movie-Film-for-16-mm-Camera_W0QQitemZ150419146859QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2305ae086b

yes i do practically live on Ebay XD

http://www.vjgroup.org/Camera_photography/Film/16MM.shtml

http://www.101-projection-equipment.info/Movie-Projectors/16mm

http://www.filmcamerakit.com/html/16mm_filmstock.htm

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

I prefer to shop in actual reality, being able to handle before buying is imporatnt to me.

I will spend the next couple of weeks getting familiar with the tech, and laying stuff by, hopefully popping up to Craft Supplies for things like finials, feet and magnifying glass for the lens. Will have it ready for The Ssykum and maybe one or two other things.