The Queer Geer( A room for LGBT forum goers)

[J. Wilhelm]

Very interesting documentary.  The two salient feautures are what Sheryl stated in the TLC video:

"[when i decided that] whoever I was, couldn't possibly be something to be ashamed of"

This will be common to many people on this thread, not just in your situation. That was the reason for me opening up as much as I did (in spite of being as "plain vanilla" as I am) and I suspect it's the reason for you opening up and discussing these (more serious) issues.  

And of course Berto's example of 5-Alpha Reductase as a genetic disorder with an unusual concentration of cases in the Dominican Republic.  That is fascinating, because it seems to be a case of natural gender re-assignment without human intervention.  The most natural case I think, where boys are born as close to girls as possible and just naturally make the transition when they're ready!!  It brings to mind that there are a number of species (salamander?) which can make that sort of sexual transformation (for completely different reasons).

and now for getting off this topic. More singing videos from the individual above before I sidetracked everything by venting.

Singing? (I think the last link is the same ad the previous movie)

EDIT:

I was going to post a really interesting vlog entry I found made  by a Dutch intersexed girl (she identifies herself that way) by the name of Maya.  But the topic is already getting too heavy, because her case was rather difficult and involved rape at some point in her late adolescence...  

EDIT: I know!  I can use this to lighten up the conversation: how about some gender swapping  
Source: http://sisterwolf.tumblr.com/post/43718351451/via  VIA   http://fuckyeahvictorians.tumblr.com

[Gerry Hunter]

Hi, it's been very interesting discovering this topic, and I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself.

I always wanted to be a man, but I'm also comfortable as a woman, especially as I have now met my true love, and he is heterosexual. 

I've always had a very low voice. My piano teacher made me sing soprano from a young age because she thought it would be damaging if I sang in the bass clef. So I am now a trained soprano, but recently I have been exploring my lower range, and found that I have a baritone voice as well, so I've begun incorporating it in my new act.

I wasn't thinking of cross dressing when I put this outfit together, but I ended up looking so much like a boy that my man wouldn't kiss me while I was wearing it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXBXXy5PGh8#

this was what I meant to encourage more of. I was feeling a bit guilty for taking any wind out of her sails on arrival via my little bit of drama.

If I was a bonny lass who could hit tones like that I'd be sorely tempted to do so for pranks. I do ever so enjoy a bit of playful mischief.

[J. Wilhelm]

Hi, it's been very interesting discovering this topic, and I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself.

I always wanted to be a man, but I'm also comfortable as a woman, especially as I have now met my true love, and he is heterosexual. 

I've always had a very low voice. My piano teacher made me sing soprano from a young age because she thought it would be damaging if I sang in the bass clef. So I am now a trained soprano, but recently I have been exploring my lower range, and found that I have a baritone voice as well, so I've begun incorporating it in my new act.

I wasn't thinking of cross dressing when I put this outfit together, but I ended up looking so much like a boy that my man wouldn't kiss me while I was wearing it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXBXXy5PGh8#

this was what I meant to encourage more of. I was feeling a bit guilty for taking any wind out of her sails on arrival via my little bit of drama.*snip*

I'm quite sure, Gerry that you did not scare her away. Some time had passed between her post and yours...  Ms. Faery will be back

*snip*
If I was a bonny lass who could hit tones like that I'd be sorely tempted to do so for pranks. I do ever so enjoy a bit of playful mischief.

Or you could apply as an actor for a TV soap opera and make money of it...  It's going to be way too old for most of you, but you may have seen this movie on cable TV:

(Besides, having a good range of high and low voice will prove helpful in New York when hailing a cab):

TOOTSIE (1982)

(This is a *really good* movie BTW)

TOOTSIE - BANDE ANNONCE VO - DUSTIN HOFFMAN - JESSICA LANGE - SYDNEY POLLACK

[SteamFaery]

Ahoy! Apologies for my absence, I didn't realise I was missed. I've been working on more recordings, though unfortunately I am not allowed to release them yet.

I can share this with you, though:

English Contralto Dame Clara Butt:Il Segreto Per Esser Felice_Lucrezia Borgia_1909

Dame Clara Butt demonstrates the contralto voice, which is sadly out of fashion these days. Sir Thomas Beecham said of her that on a clear day you could hear her across the English Channel!

British Contralto Clara Butt ~ The Enchantress (1917)

At 36 minutes into this you can hear the first time my baritone voice was released on the unsuspecting public. It's from a show exploring the life of Alan Turing (amongst other people). The words are Turing's own:

Turing believes machines think.
Turing lies with men
Therefore machines do not think.

The Evolution of Eve

Some food for thought/discussion there, I hope.

[SteamFaery]

(Besides, having a good range of high and low voice will prove helpful in New York when hailing a cab):

My singing teacher had a very high voice. She once ran for a train, only to see it pulling away from the platform as she arrived on it. She sang a note so high and loud the train stopped, thinking it was a whistle, and she was able to board.

One day, I hope, this will happen to me.

[DreamHazard]

(Besides, having a good range of high and low voice will prove helpful in New York when hailing a cab):

My singing teacher had a very high voice. She once ran for a train, only to see it pulling away from the platform as she arrived on it. She sang a note so high and loud the train stopped, thinking it was a whistle, and she was able to board.

One day, I hope, this will happen to me.

My singing teacher in school made the mistake (I'm a natural bass) of saying "just copy what I sing" the first lesson I had. I did. Apparently I have a pretty impressive falsetto but that wasn't quite what she was after.

[J. Wilhelm]

(Besides, having a good range of high and low voice will prove helpful in New York when hailing a cab):

My singing teacher had a very high voice. She once ran for a train, only to see it pulling away from the platform as she arrived on it. She sang a note so high and loud the train stopped, thinking it was a whistle, and she was able to board.

One day, I hope, this will happen to me.

My singing teacher in school made the mistake (I'm a natural bass) of saying "just copy what I sing" the first lesson I had. I did. Apparently I have a pretty impressive falsetto but that wasn't quite what she was after.

Did you get punished for that?  

Ahoy! Apologies for my absence, I didn't realise I was missed. I've been working on more recordings, though unfortunately I am not allowed to release them yet.

I can share this with you, though:

English Contralto Dame Clara Butt:Il Segreto Per Esser Felice_Lucrezia Borgia_1909

Dame Clara Butt demonstrates the contralto voice, which is sadly out of fashion these days. Sir Thomas Beecham said of her that on a clear day you could hear her across the English Channel!

British Contralto Clara Butt ~ The Enchantress (1917)

At 36 minutes into this you can hear the first time my baritone voice was released on the unsuspecting public. It's from a show exploring the life of Alan Turing (amongst other people). The words are Turing's own:

Turing believes machines think.
Turing lies with men
Therefore machines do not think.

The Evolution of Eve

Some food for thought/discussion there, I hope.

Fantastic performance Ms, Faery!  Really great!  I could not watch it all on account of the late hour on this hemisphere of the globe, so I'll have to tune in tomorrow, but from the little that I heard and saw, it looked great.  I did fast-forward as well to you baritone segment    The crowd did seem pleased after all!

[DreamHazard]

(Besides, having a good range of high and low voice will prove helpful in New York when hailing a cab):

My singing teacher had a very high voice. She once ran for a train, only to see it pulling away from the platform as she arrived on it. She sang a note so high and loud the train stopped, thinking it was a whistle, and she was able to board.

One day, I hope, this will happen to me.

My singing teacher in school made the mistake (I'm a natural bass) of saying "just copy what I sing" the first lesson I had. I did. Apparently I have a pretty impressive falsetto but that wasn't quite what she was after.

Did you get punished for that?   

No, but she thought I was a bit simple and decided to try singing at the level I should have been singing at (rather than just, say, explaining what she meant), with hilarious (for me, anyway) consequences.

[Dorian Von Glass]

What a lovely thread! I have been a BG member for a couple of years now and never knew that this existed! I am a proud homosexual, and have taken comfort in the non-heteros throughout history. My deep love of literature first helped me understand that people just like me have made great strides for humanity, no matter what some may think. My love of Oscar Wilde, Lord Byron, Alexander the Great, Michelangelo, DaVinci, Tesla, Shakespeare, etc really drew me into the beauty and styles of days gone by, and thus birthed my interest in Steampunk. As Steampunk becomes more mainstream (in some form any way) I hope that other young lads and lasses can find a sense of community and camaraderie among all of us pink gears and violet cogs! Thank you for creating this group, I look forward to many more riveting discussions!

Dorian Von Glass   

[J. Wilhelm]

What a lovely thread! I have been a BG member for a couple of years now and never knew that this existed! I am a proud homosexual, and have taken comfort in the non-heteros throughout history. My deep love of literature first helped me understand that people just like me have made great strides for humanity, no matter what some may think. My love of Oscar Wilde, Lord Byron, Alexander the Great, Michelangelo, DaVinci, Tesla, Shakespeare, etc really drew me into the beauty and styles of days gone by, and thus birthed my interest in Steampunk. As Steampunk becomes more mainstream (in some form any way) I hope that other young lads and lasses can find a sense of community and camaraderie among all of us pink gears and violet cogs! Thank you for creating this group, I look forward to many more riveting discussions!

Dorian Von Glass  

Welcome to the thread then Mr. Glass!  Note the thread is also happily visited by other-coloured gears and cogs as well!

In the meantime, just to bump the thread, I found a couple of cosplay photos of

a) Russian Cosplayer "Akai Ritsuka" playing the part of Dio Eraclea (left) and companion Luciola (right) from Last Exile
http://worldcosplay.net/photo/287393/

b) American Cosplayer Khamryn playing Dio in "rite of passage" getup
http://www.acparadise.com/acp/display.php?p=55350

[neon_suntan]

Need to re-watch Last Exile.. it was good series that mixed the bewildering with the romantic, with many intriguingly androgynous characters.

[J. Wilhelm]

Need to re-watch Last Exile.. it was good series that mixed the bewildering with the romantic, with many intriguingly androgynous characters.

Last Exile I is a lot better than II, though.  Both are available on hulu.

[neon_suntan]

Apropos of nothing in particular and probably NSFW

http://tinyurl.com/ca9bm6p

[J. Wilhelm]

Apropos of nothing in particular and probably NSFW

http://tinyurl.com/ca9bm6p

Feeling a bit cheeky, eh, Neon Suntan?

~~~

Sorry. It's one of those things where if it's part of your life you are surprised when you find out most people have no frame of reference for some of this.

My gut feeling is that the doctor's purpose is to retain functionality, before fixing the aesthetic side of things...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr96b9v1YB8

it's an extreme case both in level of intersexual presentation and the doctors response, but if you go down a ways you'll find comments by medical people defending the actions. It's not as unusual as you think in recent times. Now imagine back about 3 decades.

This ones a bit more realistic (and part 2 and 3)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8ITuuxmlfqs#!
 

Fairley B. Strange the recent case of the South African Olympian who unwittingly competed as the incorrect gender.

I might challenge you analysis of the south African Olympian. She ran as a woman, she was raised as a woman, and for all apparent reference she identifies as a woman. She did not compete as the wrong gender. The Olympic committee may well take acception to her competing due to an endocrinological difference or chromosonal variance, but that's to do with rules and people in special circumstances that fall outside the rules. They have no right to decide her gender is wrong.

but you might find a more accurate picture using modern medical data rather than any less-than-scientific diagnosis that might have been made in your infancy.

I'm not looking for diagnosis. I already know I'm intersexed. Nothing to diagnose. The reason to look into it is with regards to finding out what all the hospital visits were for. I'd like to know if somebody made those decisions for me, but I also don't want to know.

It's really something more like finding out my early history, and reconciling with it if I have to. Admittedly I could have gone on in my life assuming no such thing happened to me. But recent medical tests have brought up the possibility it has. And while a few months ago I wouldn't have wished to have had anymore outward signs while I was growing up, I'm not comfortable with the idea that I might have had more outward signs and somebody 'fixed' them. Because I find myself feeling that I might have had a different journey because of it, it was my journey to have, and if I were to have more outward sign now I'd likely not wish them away any more than I want to with what I do have. But that's not a choice offered me.

While I know I can't un-'fix' anything that may have been done, I do want to know if it was done. I'll still be who I am right now, and be as capable of a happy life as I am now. But I won't lie, it will leave me with feelings of having been forced to conform to others expectations in a way the deprived me of a part of my self and my physical identity permanently. And I don't think I'm alone in finding that offensive on the very principal of it.

On a more serious note I just got reminded of the travesty that is going on at hospitals around the US regarding intersexed children; in this case apparently adoptive parents have to deal with a wrong sex re-assignment surgery years after adopting a child for whom the decision was unjustly made at only 16 months of age.  The child ws adopted at 20 months of age, and is now 8. The parents are now suing doctors and North Carolina state social workers with the help from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

http://news.yahoo.com/couple-sues-over-adopted-sons-early-sex-assignment-185711866.html

[neon_suntan]

Apropos of nothing in particular and probably NSFW

http://tinyurl.com/ca9bm6p

Feeling a bit cheeky, eh, Neon Suntan?

often 

And SFW but quite distracting (hopefully something for everyone)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

very mildly nsfw
Drew Deveaux

[J. Wilhelm]

*snip*
very mildly nsfw
http://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1555926872/NAZ_0142.jpg

Stripes are so Anime... You just reminded me I need to buy new underwear...

[J. Wilhelm]

A new topic that could become fodder for future discussion:

On May 18 the DSM5 (American Psychiatric Association's 5th Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) took effect, and Gender Identity Disorder is now being eliminated in favour of other diagnoses such as Gender Dysphoria

One of the more high-profile shifts in the DSM-5 is the elimination of gender identity disorder, known as transgenderism, which was defined in the previous manual as strong and persistent cross-gender identification. The concept didn't entirely disappear: Now there's gender dysphoria, described as the condition of someone who feels unwell or unhappy with his or her gender.

The diagnostic change has stirred up some controversy in the transgender community. Some have applauded the removal, noting the stigma that a term in the manual creates. "All psychiatric diagnoses occur within a cultural context," said Jack Drescher, a member of the American Psychiatric Association subcommittee working on the revision. "We know there is a whole community of people out there who are not seeking medical attention and live between the two binary categories. We wanted to send the message that the therapist's job isn't to pathologize."

Yet to remove it entirely would cause a pragmatic problem: a lack of insurance coverage for those seeking surgery or hormone treatment. "There was a split in the community if it should remain in the DSM or not. How do you qualify for medical care if you don't have a disorder?" Darrel A. Regier, the vice chair of the DSM-5 Task Force, told Yahoo News. He sees the new term as a compromise for both sides of the debate. "We won't call it a disorder by calling it gender dysphoria, but it remains in the DSM."

Any thoughts?

[Antipodean]

Yet to remove it entirely would cause a pragmatic problem: a lack of insurance coverage for those seeking surgery or hormone treatment.

When was the last time someone had SRS or prescriptions paid for by insurance money! - Certainly not in my neck of the woods. Insurance companies go out of their way to dodge those payments.

Surgery:

• It is not an accident or illness that you caught – You were born with it and you are not dying from it – so no surgical cover.
  

Prescriptions:

• It is not an accident or illness that you caught and you are not dying from it – so no prescription cover.

Let them know you are TG and paying for your own meds and SRS then come down with something genuine there is no cover for that because the medications you are taking may have caused that problem! You have to prove otherwise.

Maybe it is an attempt at trying to close the loopholes Insurance companies wiggle through. That might be useful for TGs who are yet to be born and are covered by insurance from birth. I cannot see an insurance company wearing a new client who immediately asks for SRS with costs that are higher than payments already made by the client.

[J. Wilhelm]

Yet to remove it entirely would cause a pragmatic problem: a lack of insurance coverage for those seeking surgery or hormone treatment.

When was the last time someone had SRS or prescriptions paid for by insurance money! - Certainly not in my neck of the woods. Insurance companies go out of their way to dodge those payments.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Surgery:

• It is not an accident or illness that you caught – You were born with it and you are not dying from it – so no surgical cover.
  

Prescriptions:

• It is not an accident or illness that you caught and you are not dying from it – so no prescription cover.

Let them know you are TG and paying for your own meds and SRS then come down with something genuine there is no cover for that because the medications you are taking may have caused that problem! You have to prove otherwise.

Maybe it is an attempt at trying to close the loopholes Insurance companies wiggle through. That might be useful for TGs who are yet to be born and are covered by insurance from birth. I cannot see an insurance company wearing a new client who immediately asks for SRS with costs that are higher than payments already made by the client.

That is a really interesting question I have never pondered.  A quick google takes you to this site where some resources mentioning policies on Gender Identity Disorder are mentioned...

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/finding-insurance-for-transgender-related-healthcare

The State of Minnesota in the US may have a private service specifically covering surgery, and other national companies that touch on the subjects are Cigna, EmblemHealth and HealthNet, apparently.  I have not read any details, though, so I can't comment.

~ ~ ~

From the dark recesses of my memory, I leave you with a video that reminded me that in the West, outside of Japan and outside of Post-1970's Ziggy Stardust Glam Rock, we indeed had some examples of "Gender Blending" as Mr. Dream Hazard would state (sexuality of band members is irrelevant - this is show business afterall)

"Stitches" by Orgy from the Album "Candyass" (1998)

You'll forgive this public display of my genderblending heterosexuality, but I think I'm in love with the "Obligatory Female" (2:02 in the video).  I remembered that part after all these years.. (what was I doing back then?  - Ah...yes! Graduate School.  I was awake for 72 hrs Monday through Wednesday straight every week - this kept me awake while grading papers and doing research in the middle of the night...). To be honest, this was the only song by Orgy that I liked (also look at that Roland G707 guitar synth controller!!)

Orgy - Stitches (Video)

EDIT:
Actually here's another good song (most of their material was pretty bad and repetitive - like they needed more time to develop their sound.  I had both albums Candyass and Vapor Transmission and sold them because I didn't like most of their material.  Only a couple of songs stand out).

"Digital" from the album "Vapor Transmission" (2000)
Sign of the times; You can see some influence from the movie "The Matrix" (1999) seeped in (sleeping girl is hooked up to a machine).

Orgy - Fiction (Dreams In Digital) (Video)

[J. Wilhelm]

Ha!  Why not?  This video is strangely appropriate for the thread (watch content) and also compliments the tech-oriented aesthetics of videos the era (Circa 1999) that I show above

"All is Full of Love" by Björk from the album "Homogenic" (1998) - the video was made after the album

Björk - All is Full of Love (Official Music Video)

The making of "All is Full of Love"

Making of All is Full of Love: Björk & Chris Cunningham

[neon_suntan]

To continue the musical theme I remember listening to Siamese Dream by Smashing Pumpkins and being absolutely convinced  that Billy Corgan was bi.

which *ahem* was fine by me 

Of course i was teenage and hormonal at the time 

[J. Wilhelm]

Darn good album. But then again, I'm an X generation "gone Y" (i.e. Breakfast club delayed to Nirvana).  I always though of Billy Corgan as a "young Uncle Fester."  

Here ya go:

Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream album (1993)

Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream (Full Album)