The Queer Geer( A room for LGBT forum goers)

[Wolf410]

-Raises His Hand- Pan-sexual Here and proud of it

granted i have yet to meet anyone quite like me in New Jersey...not that im not sure that their arn't people out there
and of course while more of my partners have been female...im not adverse to a well mannered gent...so long as he knows how to dress well...thats my one thing

Basically...im a 51st century guy

[BrownSocks]

Hi,
Just joined.  Good to see this forum here.  BrownSocks reporting from Australia.

In answer to the question, I don't mind labels, though I do disagree with and try and correct the misconceptions that go with them.

For example I self-identify as gay, queer, lesbian, etc.  No problems with others using those labels (if it is done respectfully). I don't like to identify beyond that though.

I specifically don't like being called butch.  I might not be feminine: short hair, unisex clothing, and some of my mannerisms may be on the masculine side, but I don't believe I have a butch outlook or attitude, and don't share that many other traits either.

I'll correct the person making an assumption as kindly and politely as I can though, assumptions are something we all fall into occasionally.

Sorry for the initial overshare, I think the labels question is a complex (but interesting) one.  Great forum, glad I found it.  =)

[MinervaLiRenfield]

I have the potential to love everyone.  A person's gender makes no difference in my attraction to them.  I think it goes a long way in my inability to fully understand homophobia, because I've never really completely understood heterosexuality.  To me the difference between girls or boys or whatever combination of the two might exist is like making me chose between different flavours of pie.  I love apple, cherry, lemon, berry, chocolate, etc.  Sure, I don't like mincemeat, but maybe we just have opposing attitudes!

My point is - Who doesn't love pie?

[citizen_erased]

I have the potential to love everyone.  A person's gender makes no difference in my attraction to them.  I think it goes a long way in my inability to fully understand homophobia, because I've never really completely understood heterosexuality.  To me the difference between girls or boys or whatever combination of the two might exist is like making me chose between different flavours of pie.  I love apple, cherry, lemon, berry, chocolate, etc.  Sure, I don't like mincemeat, but maybe we just have opposing attitudes!

My point is - Who doesn't love pie?

I don`t XD  no seriously, pie does nothing for me besides making me feel nauseous just by looking at it. I`ll eat it, but I eat any food that`s put infront of me XD 

But yes, I fully agree with your reasoning - I`m exactly the same (save for the whole pie-thing, that is).

[Ginny Blundy]

Interesting point of view, not one I see very often.

I personally don`t like labels. Have never liked them. I think it might be because once you have a label, you get put in a type of "box", and you`re supposed to stay in it. However, what and who I am changes all the time, so while at one moment a label might still fit me, the next day it might not anymore. It feels restrictive, I need the freedom to just go and change something. But generally people don`t really like it when you say you`re one thing, and then go and do something that does not fit that label. As that is very much what I do all the time (biggest hypocrite in the world, as some people would put it XD), it`s better not to label at all.

I get the rejection of a label to a certain degree. For one thing, sexuality can be fluid and with the rejection of labels you may save yourself the drama of needing to explain every thing that happens in your love life - "oh, I though you were gay, are you straight now? Are you bi?" etc. The thing about identifying as lesbian is that if my preferences ever shift, lots of people are going to be confused and will want me to explain this to them. Gay people I know might feel betrayed and give me grief about "switching teams", or some might assume that I haven't really shifted and I'm just scared of carrying on with an identity that subjects me to bias. But I stick with the label mainly because it does apply to me right this minute and has applied all of my life so far, and I still find empowerment and clarity in it. I think ultimately people need to just learn to understand fluidity rather than grief friends over a shift.

Hi,
Just joined.  Good to see this forum here.  BrownSocks reporting from Australia.

In answer to the question, I don't mind labels, though I do disagree with and try and correct the misconceptions that go with them.
...

I specifically don't like being called butch.  I might not be feminine: short hair, unisex clothing, and some of my mannerisms may be on the masculine side, but I don't believe I have a butch outlook or attitude, and don't share that many other traits either.

I'll correct the person making an assumption as kindly and politely as I can though, assumptions are something we all fall into occasionally.

Sorry for the initial overshare, I think the labels question is a complex (but interesting) one.  Great forum, glad I found it.  =)

BrownSocks, welcome to the group. Also, SERIOUSLY. The worst thing with the whole butch/femme identity is that a lot of it is self-perpetuated - plenty of lesbians out there really want to fit those stereotypes, as if there's no way we'll be able to find each other if we don't put on the proper dyke uniform and get the right dyke haircut. I have long hair but I also tend to wear jeans and t-shirts all the time and seldom wear makeup in everyday life. So some read butch out of that, even though my hair defies these conventions. I'm also a Steampunk obviously, which is flamboyant and therefore not a typical butch trait (even though I tend to prefer my Steampunk with a bit of cross-dressing). I wear makeup whenever I dress Steampunk. These things make me neither butch nor femme, in my opinion, and I frankly don't want to fall on either side of that line. It strikes me as silly. I get annoyed at the notion that what I do some of the time ought to be what I do all of the time - one of my friends who is also a Steampunk always makes a big deal out of it every time I wear makeup as if it's some weird thing - even though I wear makeup EVERY TIME I put on my Steampunk gear. Very obnoxious.

I'm actually at a point in my life where I'm trying to make new friends - there's nothing wrong with my old friends, but a lot of them have moved away and suddenly I have a lot of friends who don't live in the same city as me. New friends have not naturally sprung up in their place so I'm beginning to go out and participate in social events with the specific goal of meeting new folks. I'd like for some of these new friends to be queer - it's just nice to have a bit of that kind of camaraderie. But because most of my personal interests are geek-related I'm joining geeky groups instead of gay groups and trusting that eventually I'll find a few queers amongst the geeks. For all that I am fine with the label of lesbian, I don't feel like my entire life revolves around that identity, and I'm just likely to have more in common with a group brought together by geekiness than a group brought together by sexual preference.

Sorry for the long post. Really pleased to see the variety of responses, though!

[BrownSocks]

Hi Ginny,
Thanks for that welcome!  It's interesting to see another perspective on the butch / femme dynamic.  There is so much more to gender / sexuality than just male/female and butch/femme even in straight couples.  This is one of the things I find intriguing about steampunk, it does seen to play with gender a little, from exaggerated femininity to fuzzy faced masculinity and everything in between.

Good on you for pushing your comfort zone and getting out and meeting people.  Geeks are great!  So much more to talk about, and they are (usually) less inclined to pigeonhole or care about sexuality, and more accepting of difference.

This thread, for instance, gives me warm fuzzy feelings.  183 pages of untrolled and accepting gay thread, so glad I joined.

PS. I love pie, but it's really got to be girl pie.  =)

[MinervaLiRenfield]

A lot of you might not know who Rick Mercer is but I think the message here is an awesome and important one.  I'm open about my sexuality as I am because I think keeping it quiet doesn't help fight predjudice and homophobia.  It's never been an issue for me, but I really agree with Rick's statement on being role models.  I won't hide my sexual orientation because I want other people to know that it's okay to be yourself.

RMR: Rick's Rant - Teen Suicide

On that note, I must confess that my family doesn't know about my sexual prefs.  This isn't because I'm hiding it from them at all, more so that I've never had a comfortable moment to say "Hey Mum, by the way, I like hooking up with chicks too."  It's strange because I know they would be utterly fine about it all, but since I've never felt the need to confess anything, it's never come up. I am vocal about it in all other aspects of my life, but it's just never come up with my parents.

[Ginny Blundy]

BrownSocks - I like the comment about these being untrolled pages. Perhaps I fail at times to appreciate how this community has survived without any anti-gay opposition for quite a while now. Certainly unique on the internet.

MinervaLiRenfield - I agree with you on being out as a way to take a stand. My thoughts on it tend to be more blunt and confrontational - people should have to deal with us, and learn that we don't wish to be second class citizens. People shouldn't assume that we will quietly pretend to be something we are not in order to make them comfortable.

Regarding coming out to your family: I think a lot of people have the issue of it never coming up or never seeming like a right time to discuss it. One way to deal with that is to just plan it - have your closest family members over for a visit, or during a visit with them arrange some time when you are able to talk about it, and tell them. As for extended family, I just heard some interesting and perfectly logical advice about that - a guy was talking about how his mom accepts him and his boyfriend but she feels weird about him being out to the whole family for some reason. The guy didn't know what to do about it. the advice he was given was to go ahead and come out to everyone so as to not have to do ridiculous things like call his boyfriend his "roommate" (ugh), and perhaps come out online to extended family, like on Facebook, through email, etc. with one big announcement. That way he doesn't have to suffer through an ongoing, never-ending coming out process (as in "oh, my fourth cousin is going to be hear at Christmas, I don't know if he knows, I guess I have to tell him"). That way you don't have to make a big deal out of it over and over again.

[MinervaLiRenfield]

MinervaLiRenfield - I agree with you on being out as a way to take a stand. My thoughts on it tend to be more blunt and confrontational - people should have to deal with us, and learn that we don't wish to be second class citizens. People shouldn't assume that we will quietly pretend to be something we are not in order to make them comfortable.

Regarding coming out to your family: I think a lot of people have the issue of it never coming up or never seeming like a right time to discuss it. One way to deal with that is to just plan it - have your closest family members over for a visit, or during a visit with them arrange some time when you are able to talk about it, and tell them. As for extended family, I just heard some interesting and perfectly logical advice about that - a guy was talking about how his mom accepts him and his boyfriend but she feels weird about him being out to the whole family for some reason. The guy didn't know what to do about it. the advice he was given was to go ahead and come out to everyone so as to not have to do ridiculous things like call his boyfriend his "roommate" (ugh), and perhaps come out online to extended family, like on Facebook, through email, etc. with one big announcement. That way he doesn't have to suffer through an ongoing, never-ending coming out process (as in "oh, my fourth cousin is going to be hear at Christmas, I don't know if he knows, I guess I have to tell him"). That way you don't have to make a big deal out of it over and over again.

See, the thing is with me though, is I feel no compulsion to come out to them.  I fully understand the issues other people have with such a topic, but to me it seems like such a none issue.  Which is why I feel strange about it.  I have no need to tell them, because it's no different than my feelings about telling them what my favorite flavour of skittles is, it just doesn't make one lick of a difference in my life if they do or do not know.  I can understand why some people would want to share this with their family but I just don't feel compelled to "give a damn" about it.  If my current spouse and I ever broke up and I would up dating a girl again and it came time to introduce them, I don't think I would treat it any way differently than bringing a boy home to meet the parents.  I am just so neutral on the idea of it that I can't imagine any reason -why- I would tell them.  It's such a non-issue in my life, I don't struggle with how to tell them.  I just think it would be weird to bother with it.  In my case at least.  And that's why I think my situation might be a bit strange.  While I'm vocal about being open and honest about my sexuality, it's never been something I've needed to chat with my parents about.  Because I don't chat with them about being into guys, so why would I make an issue of chatting with them about the girls? (Or any gender for that matter).

Point being, my gender preferences are so mundane in my life, I simply don't feel the need to chat them with my parents.  If they find out, they find out.  If they don't, it's not the end of the world for me.  But still, I can understand why my feelings are not the same as anyone else's.

[Ginny Blundy]

Minerva, sorry for the long pause in response.

If you are currently dating a man but feel attracted to women at times (or all the time for that matter but don't feel like it's a situation that's going to make you leave this man), then I can see not saying anything to the family. That's a bit like saying "mom, dad, I like redheads" while dating a brunette - so what? Doesn't really change your current status as a brunette-dater.

I think the key to this issue is in what you say about dating a woman - that you would bring her home to the family just like you would a man. In addition to what you mention about being out in order to make a statement about this being ok, being out is also about treating your partner with respect. It's disrespectful to hide a same sex partner from family, friends, etc. It makes the relationship seem shameful, which is not healthy for either party involved.

[MinervaLiRenfield]

Minerva, sorry for the long pause in response.

If you are currently dating a man but feel attracted to women at times (or all the time for that matter but don't feel like it's a situation that's going to make you leave this man), then I can see not saying anything to the family. That's a bit like saying "mom, dad, I like redheads" while dating a brunette - so what? Doesn't really change your current status as a brunette-dater.

THIS!  A much better explanation than I could have come up with.  I'm into both sides, but I'm not currently dating both, so while I'm out about it all, these is no reasonable reason in my mind as to why my parents would give a damn.  The strange thing is, I've known people of any sexuality who think that means I'm hiding it from them.  Which I'm not.  And I agree about the disprespectful bit.  If I was dating a girl and kept her hidden like a dirty secret, I wouldn`t deserve her.  For me though, my sexuality is no different than my hair colour.  Except my hair colour changes more often. 

[Dr. Wilson Montgomery]

For me though, my sexuality is no different than my hair colour.  Except my hair colour changes more often. 

...whereas I dyed my hair black in my early teens, have kept it that way for the last 20 years and most likely won´t ever go back.

[neon_suntan]

For me though, my sexuality is no different than my hair colour.  Except my hair colour changes more often. 

...whereas I dyed my hair black in my early teens, have kept it that way for the last 20 years and most likely won´t ever go back.

So did I when I was thin, pale and probably better looking than i am now, but I didn't get any attention from either sex until stopped :-(

[helios]

I naturally have a small patch of white hair behind my left ear. The rest of my hair is a sort of dirty brown. How metaphorical for sexuality...

[Gerry Hunter]

A new toy:

http://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2011/11/15/jailbreak-the-patriarchy-chrome-extension/

give the internet a sex change, lol. I've not tried it yet but the description sound like a fun thing. Too bad it images are too hard to do like this.

[Ginny Blundy]

Interesting Gerry. I thought the excerpt they gave from the gender-swapped Cosmo article was especially interesting, particularly where it had swapped "boy" in the original to "girl". Made the article seem kind of creepy to me - and made me wonder why it's not creepy in its original form when it says "boy".

Gender-specific pronouns are frustrating to me lately. A good friend of mine is engaged to a transman who is still in the somewhat early stages of transition. Basically, he still has a feminine looking face, and sometimes what the eye sees, the mouth says. It clearly bothers him, and at least once my friend has given him a "knock it off" kind of response when he started to grumble about it. It felt like I was seeing part of a conversation that they've been having for a while, but I get the feeling that my friend sees it as a mistake people aren't making on purpose right now, while her fiancee sees it as a slight. It tends to make me really anxious and self-conscious around him, which makes me worry that he will misinterpret that anxiety as me disapproving of his trans status. Sigh.

[aquachromis]

Hi all, just joined the forum this past week. I'll add my rainbow flag to the group 

[Murdock]

I'm coming into this discussion rather late, ain't I? 

I'm a guy. Attracted to guys. The end. I don't want this to sound like a dating profile, so... I shall bow and exit for now.

As a side note, in case some were wondering, being gay and highly fashion conscious DOES help with designing steampunk.

[citizen_erased]

I'm coming into this discussion rather late, ain't I? 

I'm a guy. Attracted to guys. The end. I don't want this to sound like a dating profile, so... I shall bow and exit for now.

As a side note, in case some were wondering, being gay and highly fashion conscious DOES help with designing steampunk.

First of all, welcome! To both you and aquachromis ^^

Secondly, there's no such thing as joining in late! No worries ^^

And lastly, you're right, being highly fashion conscious does indeed help with designing steampunk, though I don't think you need to be gay for that

[Oooay]

Hey
I'm Oooay (or Emma) I'm mostly into girls I'm a little new to the whole steampunkness but my friend introduced me to it and it seems pretty awesome ^^ My friend is modding me an awesome nerf gun and making it all steampunk and filled with power and awesomeness... I have named her Layla (the gun not the friend doing all the awesome modding =p)

no idea what else to say... so I shall leave it there for nows!

peace xxx

[citizen_erased]

Hey
I'm Oooay (or Emma) I'm mostly into girls I'm a little new to the whole steampunkness but my friend introduced me to it and it seems pretty awesome ^^ My friend is modding me an awesome nerf gun and making it all steampunk and filled with power and awesomeness... I have named her Layla (the gun not the friend doing all the awesome modding =p)

no idea what else to say... so I shall leave it there for nows!

peace xxx

welcome to the forum!


...maybe I should try my hand at modding a nerf gun, hmmm...it does sound pretty awesome.

you do know that we`ll want pictures when the gun is done, right?

[helios]

In fact, we may just demand them. We are rather fond of pictures, here.
Moreso of people, mind, so allow me to also welcome you!

[Lord Wraste]

Someone on my Facebook posted this article:
One teacher's approach to preventing gender bullying in a classroom.

I thought it rather good. I was the little boy that loved his GIJoes and his sister's My Little Ponies. I grew up to be the goth kid with eyeliner and nail polish. I am loving the idea of a teacher that understands gender being flexible and not a box to be put in unless you want to be put in it

[helios]

That, my friend, is all kinds of excellent.

[neon_suntan]

Just an FYI but there's been a collection of Lesbian themed Steampunk Stories published by Torquere Press, but to avoid cross-posting I've started a thread in Textual:-

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34197.0.html