The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
April 17, 2014, 01:45:38 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Forum highlights on twitter: @BG_couk
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Watches question - removing jewels from the movements?  (Read 3276 times)
DistortedGrins
Deck Hand
*
Australia Australia


« on: October 07, 2009, 02:33:53 am »

How do I remove the jewels from a jewelled watch or pocket watch movement?

I have watch and jeweller kits, and can take apart a complete pocket watch case & movement, but I'm left with the movement plates, balance cocks and other parts with the rubies still attached.

Any tips and recommendations?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 04:24:24 am by DistortedGrins » Logged
JingleJoe
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom


The Green Dungeon Alchemist


WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 03:11:20 am »

A tangent, but why exactly are there tiny jewels in them? Huh
Logged

Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Providing weird sound contraptions and time machines since 2064.
DistortedGrins
Deck Hand
*
Australia Australia


« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 03:19:38 am »

All quality pocket watch and watch movements contain rubies, sapphires and the like for various reasons (from mechanical/quality reasons through to sheer elaborate ornamental purposes).
Logged
HAC
Steam Theologian
Moderator
Immortal
*
Canada Canada


HAC_N800
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 03:33:27 am »

A tangent, but why exactly are there tiny jewels in them? Huh


There are several different types of jewels used in a watch, the most common are:

Hole Jewels:   These are donut shaped jewels that fit over the gear axles (in watch lingo, the wheel arbors).
Cap Jewels:   These are flat jewels that are placed on the ends of the axles (arbors).
Pallet Jewels:   These are brick shaped jewels on the pallet fork that alternately engage and release the escape wheel. The escape wheel is the gear with funny "boot" shaped teeth.
Roller Jewel:   This jewel is on the large balance wheel that swings back and forth. It engages with the pallet fork on the end opposite of the pallet jewels.

Jewels have two important properties that help reduce friction. First, they can be made to be very smooth, and therefore they let the metal parts slide easily. Secondly, they are very hard and therefore don't wear down very quickly. The gears in a watch are carefully designed so that the teeth roll on each other, rather than sliding. If the axle of a gear wears away the hole that it sit in, the gear will shift. That means the teeth will no longer roll on each other and therefore friction will be increased.
The jewels are carefully shaped so that the capillary action of the oil causes the oil to be drawn toward the gear arbors instead of spreading out where it doesn't do any good.

The jewels are located throughout the watch at key spots. The following are typical locations for the jewels:

The basic 7 jewels are part of the escapement and balance and are found on all jeweled watches. They include cap and hole jewels for both the top and the bottom of the balance staff (total of 4), the two pallet jewels and the roller jewel.
The next 8, making 15 jewels, are hole jewels for the fast moving part of the gear train.
The next 2, making 17 jewels, are jewels on the center wheel.
The next 2-4, making 19-21 jewels, are cap jewels on the escape wheel and the pallet fork

Additional jewels are often needed to make automatically wound watches efficiently transfer the small amount of power generated by moving your wrist into the power needed to wind your watch. More jewels are often used for chronograph functions, time repeater chimes, and date/date displays. Very complicated watches can have over 40 functional jewels.

There was also a craze back in the 50's to add many decorative jewels that had no function whatsoever. The "jewel wars" simply took advanatge of the notion that most folks had that the higher the jewel count, the better the watch, which is not always true.

Simply put, jewels act as low friction bearings. To remove them , you really need a staking set, or even better a Seitz jeweling tool.


Jewels may also be set in "chatons." Instead of setting the jewel in a hole drilled in the plate, the jewel is set in a ring (the chaton, often made of gold) and the chaton is screwed to the plate. If this is the case, you will need to remove the chatons first.  Also be aware that jewels have little, if any monetary value.

Hope that helps..

Cheers
Harold
Logged

You never know what lonesome is , 'til you get to herdin' cows.
DistortedGrins
Deck Hand
*
Australia Australia


« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 04:24:06 am »

Thank you very much for the staking & Seitz jeweling tools information, Harold Smiley Exactly what I needed to know.
Logged
Captain Quinlin Hopkins
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States



WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 11:45:00 am »

Now that the proper tools have been mentioned, anyone have a good source for the bulk jewels used?  I know they are utterly inexpensive.  Just can't seem to find them. I would assume someone here has dealings with a company to purchase these on occasion?
Logged

Sincerely,
Captain Quinlin Hopkins (Hoppy)

Do not ignore the freedoms of someone else, for eventually you will be someone else! 

DFW Steampunk Illumination Society
HAC
Steam Theologian
Moderator
Immortal
*
Canada Canada


HAC_N800
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 04:18:57 pm »

Ofrei carries Seitz jewels. Problem is, that even at under $2.00 each, you still have to buy them in bulk. Seitz lots run anywhere from $500-$1100.

www.ofrei.com

To Mister has a selection for sale by the piece.

http://www.dashto.com/newlists/selectedothermaterials.htm#037


Cheers
Harold
Logged
Captain Quinlin Hopkins
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States



WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 05:57:29 pm »

They should literally be a dime a dozen.  Quite surprised to hear that price.  And with no sheep in sight.  Perhaps it's due to the tight tolerances drilled.  But the flats? Glad I'd found bulk pricing on gemstone cuts. I'd hate to have to pay those prices.  Hand cut possibly. All are done on machines now.   

Thank you for the proper term though...should make searching considerable easier. 
Logged
Noxtradamus
Gunner
**
Canada Canada


« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2009, 07:11:40 pm »

Funny I missed this thread, I'm currently doing just this at school: removing and adjusting back jewels. Looking at the Seitz tool, it would probably not be that hard to make one from scratch, by casting the body and lathe-turning the stake, punch, and anvil. The hard part would be the micrometric screw, but having it machined would still be cheaper than a new Seitz tool.
Logged
HAC
Steam Theologian
Moderator
Immortal
*
Canada Canada


HAC_N800
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2009, 07:29:17 pm »

Funny I missed this thread, I'm currently doing just this at school: removing and adjusting back jewels. Looking at the Seitz tool, it would probably not be that hard to make one from scratch, by casting the body and lathe-turning the stake, punch, and anvil. The hard part would be the micrometric screw, but having it machined would still be cheaper than a new Seitz tool.
Interesting, would that be the course at IHB in Montreal? Does that still exist?  Or is this a WOSTEP course?If so, I envy you, that's really good training..

Cheers
Harold
Logged
Noxtradamus
Gunner
**
Canada Canada


« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2009, 07:49:20 pm »

Neither of them, its the "École National d'horlogerie" in Trois-rivières. I wish it was the WOSTEP program... The formation in Montreal closed for reason I don't know, but probably due in part to the declining market before the 90'. There is about twenty or so student at the moment in the 1800h DEP formation (in which I am) and 2 or 3 in the 600h ASP specialisation. Its a little bit more focused on watch, but clocks are covered too, and we have quite a lot of them to repair, as the school used to accept reparation from outside.


We have plenty of equipment, but there is not enough teachers and its not rigorous enough to run proprely in my opinion. There is even some machinery that no one know how to run, like the huge 1/1000mm digital drillpress that sit in a corner of a room. If I can kick my butt to finish the formation with some advance, I'll probably aim for the WOSTEP at Lititz, or better yet Neuchatel...
Logged
HAC
Steam Theologian
Moderator
Immortal
*
Canada Canada


HAC_N800
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 08:08:49 pm »

Neither of them, its the "École National d'horlogerie" in Trois-rivières. I wish it was the WOSTEP program... The formation in Montreal closed for reason I don't know, but probably due in part to the declining market before the 90'. There is about twenty or so student at the moment in the 1800h DEP formation (in which I am) and 2 or 3 in the 600h ASP specialisation. Its a little bit more focused on watch, but clocks are covered too, and we have quite a lot of them to repair, as the school used to accept reparation from outside.


We have plenty of equipment, but there is not enough teachers and its not rigorous enough to run proprely in my opinion. There is even some machinery that no one know how to run, like the huge 1/1000mm digital drillpress that sit in a corner of a room. If I can kick my butt to finish the formation with some advance, I'll probably aim for the WOSTEP at Lititz, or better yet Neuchatel...
Lucky man!.. I'm no expert, and I know my limitations when it comes to minor watch work, all my soi-disant "training" is from my watchmaker, who was kind enough to teach me a bit.. Keep at it, and good luck!
Cheers
Harold
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.11 seconds with 18 queries.