Would YOU?

[heavyporker]

Hm... it's not just a webcam thing, it is who also has the large pipes necessary for the e-conference. It may be better to go to some kind of start-up-business nursery company (those businesses that make money hiring out space with big internet pipes and all the necessary infrastructure and fitted-out conference rooms for fledging businesses) and rent a room OR a full-service hotel (these places also host fitted-out conference rooms, mainly for business conferences) and hire a room there.

[mattig89ch]

which is why the small indie shop is a great idea.  we find locations that we think would be suitable and see how well we do.

we then grow in the areas where we are doing well, and shrink in those that we aren't.  I'm thinking major cities first, NY, DC, San Fran Sisco, ect.

Edit: or we could launch a series of Zeplins.  Travel to exotic places, it'd be like a cruise!

[Isabella Stormrift]

which is why the small indie shop is a great idea.  we find locations that we think would be suitable and see how well we do.

we then grow in the areas where we are doing well, and shrink in those that we aren't.  I'm thinking major cities first, NY, DC, San Fran Sisco, ect.

Edit: or we could launch a series of Zeplins.  Travel to exotic places, it'd be like a cruise!

I don't think I understand what you're saying here. "Getting together for planning is challenging, so we should all just do our own thing and THEN get together later."? So rather than pooling resources, effort, and know-how, we should all struggle to do our own thing and then consolidate? Pardon me, but that seems more than a little ridiculous.

[mattig89ch]

ooooooooohhhhhhh, my apologies.  mis-understood what was going on.  I do agree that we should get together.

But I also I think it'd be good idea to spread out, find out where we'd do the best buisness and then spread in that location (or locations).

[Isabella Stormrift]

Clarification achieved! Currently talk has been leaning toward the Portland area, but if you've other suggestions feel free to bring them up!

[mattig89ch]

I would suggest a major city.  Idc where, but someplace that gets many tourists, immagents, and has many office buildings. My first choice is NYC, but thats only because I live there.

[Malcom Kane]

If it had room for a Tarot reader and Reiki master to make a living .yes

[mattig89ch]

Tarot Reader and Reiki master?

[Vorpal Bandersnatch]

In terms of a steam-punk gift shop, I think this could work, but it depends on what it is. I think a steampunk version of "hot-topic" would probably turn me off. We don't want to just do whatever it takes to make this profitable, we don't want to commercialize it to death. There's something funny and desperately sad about the guy who wants to strike back at the man and goes to buy an Anarchy hat from Wal-mart to do it.

That said, here's what I picture a cool steampunk store being like, that would maybe be profitable, fun, and consistent with steampunk ideology (as I understand it):

I think it should be a place where people can make things, a place where people can buy handmade things that have been made elsewhere, and a place where people can buy parts to make things at home. I think it could be neat if some of the goods were made right there by various employees or whatever, so folks could watch and learn.

I think it would be part blacksmith shop, part consignment store, part hardware store/hobby shop, and maybe part library, in that it would be a place where learning could happen through the availability of computers and how-to books and maker workshops. This would be amazing, and I think it would be even better if you made it a place that you could hang out and this stuff would become the atmosphere of a place where you dine or relax. It could be a coffee shop, or something more Victorian like an absinthe bar (legalized now!) or pipe-smoking hangout or tea-room.

This wouldn't require all the capital for a hotel startup, and could be done in bits and pieces. Start with any one of these pieces and add the others in. Eventually you end up with a steampunk community center where everything good can happen.

Anybody got cash waiting to be spent? Also, someone could work out some ballpark figures for rent, wages, and pricing to figure out a business plan that would make this profitable. It would probably be good to start with the most profitable venture and then increasingly add more components to it as a customer base is established. I would spend more time on this but I've got calculus homework.


-Bandersnatch

[Isabella Stormrift]

Well we certainly wouldn't want it to be "get your commemorative cookie-cutter goggles!" I was thinking more along the lines of unique hand made items being available for purchase to the guests.

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

Well, the initial plan I had in mind involved the initial location being a tea room, with the possibility of moving on to an absinthe bar shortly after opening.  I am planning on writing up a business plan shortly, with the aid of Miss Stormrift.  If anyone cares to present further data that should be in my plan, please, post it here.  I intend to include employment numbers, wage rates, advertisement expenses, likely income rates per customer, projected customer numbers based on similar businesses in the downtown Portland area, and traffic impact projections based on the five most likely places to set this up.  Sound good?

[Cptn. Caine A. Davenport]

I think this is all a capital idea, and I'd love to be involved. As Isabella (Izzy to her cap'n) might've mentioned I would have an interest as a bartender if we were to do a bed'n breakfast or inn, or similar setting. Beyond that I shall continue to keep an eye on this thread and would love to provide any help I can, what little that may be -chuckles-

[Isabella Stormrift]

I'm a bit confused at this point actually. Is the hotel thing out? Are we just starting as a tearoom and expanding into a hotel? Where are we at at this point?

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

I was running on the idea of starting with the tea room, as that will be the easiest to get funding for.  If we want to start with the hotel, we'll be looking at several million dollars more as starting capital.

[Isabella Stormrift]

I was running on the idea of starting with the tea room, as that will be the easiest to get funding for.  If we want to start with the hotel, we'll be looking at several million dollars more as starting capital.

What of that building you'd mentioned in our previous phone conversation? Is that out of the running? No longer necessary? What of using it as a starting point and expanding with time? Have I completely dropped off our wonderful thought sharing wavelength?

[Vorpal Bandersnatch]

I intend to include employment numbers, wage rates, advertisement expenses, likely income rates per customer, projected customer numbers based on similar businesses in the downtown Portland area, and traffic impact projections based on the five most likely places to set this up.  Sound good?

I think that sounds excellent - I think it would also be ideal to make comparisons to similar businesses that are known to be successful. It will be interesting to look at actual numbers for everything.

Also - the only objection I have towards starting with a tea-room is that it must be constructed in a way that the customer base won't be alienated when additional elements are added. It seems like it would be easier to add a tea-room to a workshop than it would be to add a workshop to a tea-room.

A solid argument FOR a tea-room is the fact that businesses have already had success with that model, so one has a template to go off of instead of starting from scratch with an untested idea.

[heavyporker]

 Let's see.... B&B-style inns (not hotel, that implies large-scale operation), tea room, consignment store, cafe, library, absinthe bar... these are the ideas tossed up thus far. Let me point out some things I see here:


 - The B&B-style inns, in my opinion, have the most potential of immediate and steady success. As they can be themed, they can very strongly appeal to their particular markets.

 - The tea room also has potential for success, but I want to point out, don't fall into the trap that it can only be tea and cookies. Let's be honest, it'll probably have to be more of a cafe  (as in, also serve  coffee, various beverages including sodas of several flavors, and meals if not only pastries) if it is to be successful long-term. I mean, really, aside from the touristy traffic and the tea-time traffic, what else is going to support the tea room business?

 - The consignment store has SOME potential for success, but it is imperiled by the vicissitudes of fashion and the need for high-visibility/high-foot-traffic locales (which means beacoup rents and taxes). Venture carefully if you want a stand-alone consignment shop business.

 - The cafe (I hope you can see how I view the steampunk tea room concept and the steampunk cafe concept as separate ventures despite of how blurred the lines may have to be due to the obligations of profitability (or at least survival)) has potentially more chance of long-term success than the tea room. Quality of service and quality of food is crucial here - the decor can only do so much. You may have to work with gourmet people to make really spiffy but faithfully Victorian recipes for the meals on offer. And rotate the menus!

 - A steampunk library/bookstore. Are you kidding me? Despite how much I love the idea, it really won't be able to survive on its own. The range of steampunk literature, and the attendant audience just isn't big enough for that. You may have to fold the bookstore concept into  the gift shop or consignment store. Of course, a steampunky study would be so, so, so awesome if it was in the B&B inns. Perfect for these rainy days or slow weekends, the guests shall be glad, but the proprietors will have to guard against "lost books".

 - An absinthe bar. Well!  That does certainly sound esoteric, but I fear that its chance of long term success is frightfully low. Only absinthe? I think such a venture would have to be something resting upon a broader base of beverages - use the absinthe bar as a feature/hook for a fuller-featured alcoholic establishment. Perhaps also offer the use of hookahs as another crowd-puller.



 The reason that I thought the hotel building (as I said, it implicitly states a larger venture) was so brilliant that you could do themed floors, AND the ground-level lobby could have ALL these: tea room, absinthe/hookah bar, consignment shop, and library, like a self-contained steampunk city block.

 I mean, HELL, you could even literally lay down an actual cobblestone lane down the middle of that block, and do up the walls of that ground-level in bricks and stone blocks. Kind of... like a themed concourse. Yeah, like how some shopping malls do with their colossal atriums what with their little fake-plant gardens and fountains and sculptures. You know what would be ridiculously awesome? Having some people pushing around kiosks and carts selling jewelry or meat pies/funnel cakes/rats-on-sticks. A little steampunk world of our own, hidden away inside this respectable-looking-from-the-outside establishment.  I know, it sounds a lot like Diagon Alley, what I was describing, but honest, guys, I was thinking of the museum scene in "Demolition Man". Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

I think part of the issue is that here in Portland, the term 'tea room' implies also a cafe.

And yes, Miss Stormrift, we're still thinking with the same brain.  We can still use that one for both a starting point and something to build off of, as the four buildings next to it are all Victorian as well.  One is currently a frat house, which will be moving out next year as Portland State is banning the Greek movement again, (they do this about every twenty years like clockwork), and the next two are small private homes which are frequently on the market as they are frequently being sold by students who are moving out.  So, what do people think?

[Isabella Stormrift]

I think it's sounding like a marvelous staring point, perhaps we could even start there as the tea room, using the upper floors for housing for the starting team while we make further plans for how to expand from there?

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

Indeed we could!  I like this idea more and more, actually.  (There's also a couple more locations in the Portland downtown area I'm looking at as well, which also have the feel and appearance we're looking for.)

[Isabella Stormrift]

Indeed we could!  I like this idea more and more, actually.  (There's also a couple more locations in the Portland downtown area I'm looking at as well, which also have the feel and appearance we're looking for.)

I don't know that I COULD love it  more, personally, I'm so in love with it now

[mattig89ch]

hm, I'm not going to lie to you.  The idea of a team room, while interesting, shouldn't be our main starting point.  I'm not saying we don't add that in, but I think our focal point should be selling unique items.

I agree with Vorpal Bandersnatch that this shop would need to be part Black smith, part watch maker ect.

I also agree with the idea that we should make things right in front of people, to show them how its done (to a certain extent, we don't want to give away all our secrets).

[Vorpal Bandersnatch]

 The reason that I thought the hotel building (as I said, it implicitly states a larger venture) was so brilliant that you could do themed floors, AND the ground-level lobby could have ALL these: tea room, absinthe/hookah bar, consignment shop, and library, like a self-contained steampunk city block.

 I mean, HELL, you could even literally lay down an actual cobblestone lane down the middle of that block, and do up the walls of that ground-level in bricks and stone blocks. Kind of... like a themed concourse.

I think the challenge here is to find a path that will lead to the realization of any of these things. Some of them, as you noted, probably need to be combined with something (book store/library for sure) but some of them can stand pretty well alone. However, we have to start with something realistic and profitable if we'll have any chance of really making it happen. I just don't think there's any hope of raising the capital to start off with a hotel, even if that would be the best way to incorporate all these things together eventually. However, suppose we start with 1 or 2 successful steampunk businesses in a downtown district of a given town: eventually, as it grows, I imagine that folks could pool their resources and get an investor to spring for a themed hotel that would fit in with the existing tourism that is already (hopefully) happening.

The Absinthe Bar concept is one that is just crazy enough to work, I think. There are actually a few already running out in California, and I think the idea is novel enough that folks of all sorts go just to check it out. This would be something that you probably want to set up as a restaurant/general drinking establishment, but I think you could get a lot of interest and really make a lot of money with this if you went about it in the right way. You could sell beer and of course make whatever kind of drinks people asked for, but the menu could be centered around 19th century beverages. I hadn't thought of hookah as steampunk before, but I suppose it does fit into the British in India idea. Hookah and Bombay Sapphire sound quite delightful together, actually.

If we have at least one established business (tea room, cafe, bar, or bed and breakfast sounding most likely) then I think you can add in a gift shop, consignment shop, book store, parts store, or any combination of the above.

Another last idea - has anybody considered a steampunk fair, like the ren fairs or similar? This seems like a starting point that would be worthy of considering, as it would provide an occasion for folks to test out different business ideas without having the commitment and upfront costs of a full standalone business. The street vendor idea seems to fit particularly well here. Although, I'd still like to aim for a permanent steampunk neighborhood. 

[akumabito]

The tea room makes sense from a return on investment point of view, tea, coffee and other F&B aren't particularly pricey to buy in bul and are stored quite easily. A tearoom also doesn't nee dto be ridiculously large, so a modest venue (with reasonable rent) could be sought. However, you'd be facing major competition from established coffee and tea vendors, especially the likes of Starbucks.

I like the idea of an Inn - staffing requirements are low, with maybe 3 to 5 rooms for rent or so. Average room rates in the US have recently risen to about $100 per night. A location in or near downtown Portland would see a very healthy occupation rate, no doubt. Besides the holiday makers, you also got people out on business looking for a place to stay - not your primary audience, perhaps, but a welcome source of income nonetheless (and please do pursuade them to buy a souvenir for their kids back home )

[mattig89ch]

I agree that an Inn might be an interesting idea, but you have to remember that this is a recession.  you'll need to convince people that coming to your place is a good idea by lowering the prices.  for example, try...$100 for 3 days.  you could have a tea room in this little B&B where people pay for their meals ect.