Would YOU?

[Wordsmith]

No, I don't think so. As wonderfully fun as it would be, there is very little opportunity, realistically, for doing science without modern laboratory equipment. Even the organic chemists (who, after all, just mix things together using glassware that was developed within the general historical period we are interested in -- even the Schlenk line just scrapes in) could not seriously work without mass and nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometry.

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

[Isabella Stormrift]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

All sound to be excellent points. The sales tax is certainly a boon, and I've friend nearby as well who attest to good climates. Though this unused land... I assume it's going for reasonable if not excellent prices?

[Magister]

My reactions to this thread:

Page 1: "Hmm, interesting thought. I would definitely consider relocating to a steampunk town."

Page 2: "Hmm, the logistics are somewhat daunting."

Page 5: "Good god! What a horrible place to have to live!"

I would have to say my answer is a resounding NO. It seems to me that the things you would have to do to make it happen twist the whole thing around so that it's more of a curse than a blessing. All this corporate land ownership, enforced Victorianism, and outlawing of unpopular technologies just creep me out.

Big Brother is watching you... through his Aetherscope.

Just ick. No thanks.

[Isabella Stormrift]

My reactions to this thread:

Page 1: "Hmm, interesting thought. I would definitely consider relocating to a steampunk town."

Page 2: "Hmm, the logistics are somewhat daunting."

Page 5: "Good god! What a horrible place to have to live!"

I would have to say my answer is a resounding NO. It seems to me that the things you would have to do to make it happen twist the whole thing around so that it's more of a curse than a blessing. All this corporate land ownership, enforced Victorianism, and outlawing of unpopular technologies just creep me out.

Big Brother is watching you... through his Aetherscope.

Just ick. No thanks.

You make it sound as though we're out to control people's lives. We're not "outlawing" things, just requesting that non-steampunk-appropriate things be kept out of sight of visitors.

How would you propose to go about such a thing without the "Big Brother" feel?

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

All sound to be excellent points. The sales tax is certainly a boon, and I've friend nearby as well who attest to good climates. Though this unused land... I assume it's going for reasonable if not excellent prices?

Well, the land prices I listed above are all in Oregon.  Including the four million dollar, ten thousand acre  plot I mentioned....

[Isabella Stormrift]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

All sound to be excellent points. The sales tax is certainly a boon, and I've friend nearby as well who attest to good climates. Though this unused land... I assume it's going for reasonable if not excellent prices?

Well, the land prices I listed above are all in Oregon.  Including the four million dollar, ten thousand acre  plot I mentioned....

Ah, yes, I believe you mentioned that. Silly of me to question it. Have you been keeping up with what's said between your posts, Dr. Oliver? Are we still more or less on the same page as far as expectations?

[akumabito]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

Very good points all.. no sales tax, eh? Pahh, we're stuck with a 19% sales tax around these parts!

Ok, looking at the map then.. I'm looking at the northwest of Oregon. It is too bad the three largest cities of the state are pretty much in a straight line from each other. Just trying to capture as large a potential audience as possible, I think Clatsop, Columbia, Washington and Tillamook. You don't want to be too far from major population centers, I think this region would be a good compormise, Portland and Salem aren't too far away, further to the north you also got Olympia in WA. Now I'm not too familiar Oregon, so I don't really know all that much about this region.. any thoughts?

[Isabella Stormrift]

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

Very good points all.. no sales tax, eh? Pahh, we're stuck with a 19% sales tax around these parts!

Ok, looking at the map then.. I'm looking at the northwest of Oregon. It is too bad the three largest cities of the state are pretty much in a straight line from each other. Just trying to capture as large a potential audience as possible, I think Clatsop, Columbia, Washington and Tillamook. You don't want to be too far from major population centers, I think this region would be a good compormise, Portland and Salem aren't too far away, further to the north you also got Olympia in WA. Now I'm not too familiar Oregon, so I don't really know all that much about this region.. any thoughts?

Fiddling with Googlemaps to find the areas you're talking about... I stumbled across a little label reading "Gearhart." Gearhart, OR. I don't know if there's land available, or if it's even a good location, but REALLY. It's like a SIGN.

[akumabito]

Gearhart, eh?

*googles*

http://www.gonorthwest.com/Oregon/coast/Gearhart/Gearhart.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearhart,_Oregon

Sounds good.. tiny village though. Retired folks and golfers.. usually means property is gonna be expensive..

http://www.northcoastrealty.net/ <-- That company is located in Gearhart, actually..

[Isabella Stormrift]

Gearhart, eh?

*googles*

http://www.gonorthwest.com/Oregon/coast/Gearhart/Gearhart.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearhart,_Oregon

Sounds good.. tiny village though. Retired folks and golfers.. usually means property is gonna be expensive..

http://www.northcoastrealty.net/ <-- That company is located in Gearhart, actually..

Yes... sadly... The name is wasted on them, I tell you.

[Benzworth]

I'd have to say no.  I'm just too much of a lover of technology to just give it all up.  Now a town with modern amenities but a Victorian style and SOME Victorian sensibilities I could go for.  Steampunk is all about mixing the old with the new, after all(or at least it is for me).

[Elliot_Pending]

Snow? That's that "ice" I hear about, falling from the sky, right?

But seriously. How do we survive? Very little clothing, honestly. Florida makes steampunk attire incredibly impractical. This is part of my frustration with my location.

  Occasionally in large chunks. Although then we call it something else. Sometimes colorfully. And always from indoors.

Indeed! The word "sticky" comes to mind.

I would very, VERY strongly suggest Oregon, for quite a few reasons.  Reason one -- Climate.  Oregon has fifteen distinctly different climates, although the Portland climate, which is probably the best know, is one wherein the temp. normally hovers around 80f for highs in summer and 38f for lows in winter.  Reason two -- This state has a major city, in the form of Portland, which would be great for attracting tourists from.  Reason three -- Oregon has no sales tax.  None.  The US has no national sales tax, and the State of Oregon has a constitutional BAN on sales taxes.  Reason four -- Land.  Lots of it.  There's hundreds of thousands of acres of unused land in this state.  Reason five -- the laws involved.  Oregon has a very liberal view of land ownership law.  Reason six -- access.  Oregon has very good public transportation.  Reason seven -- well, reason seven's personal.  I live here.  But that actually does come into play here, as all my knowledge about the legal structure in question applies best to the area I've initially investigated, which happens to be Oregon.

So, with all that stated... Oregon has my vote, certainly.

That sounds fantastic! Even I might be comfortable in a climate like that of Portland. And it's quite convenient that the legal aspect is so accomodating as well.

[Victoria The Mistress]

So, what would the logistics be of acquiring somewhere like Blaisdon and then building things in the grounds? Would the planning issues still apply?

(Eternally hopeful!)

In answer to the original question, I think it's a feasible under-taking. I would like to live in a "Steampunk" Community, and I think the issues about conformity would work themselves out naturally. A natural level would be found taking into account daily practicalities.

After all, if electricity hadn't given us more convenient lives, inventors would have ended up with the same gadgets, just powered differently. Things which would be safe easy and economical to run in a truly Steampunk fashion could certainly be run that way. Things like the Internet however, require the modern sensibility. Unless we can engineer Super Hamsters to run dynamos etc.......

Commercially, there is always a market for magic and nostalgia. Steampunk covers both bases.

One of my dream business concepts (and I claim it here publically as mine should anyone open a venture similar any time soon  ) was a theme park that runs decade by decade, say from 1890 - 1990, and is totally interactive in each decade - you put on the costume, eat the food, play the games, experience the entertainment and learn the history. There would be guides who lived through each decade (where possible ) to give guided tours and talk about what it was really like to live then. I thought it would be a great way of getting generations together, and the younger ones getting a better understanding of where the older ones were coming from, especially given the way technology has advanced in such huge leaps and bounds in the last century.....

But I digress. A similar venture in Steampunk terms could have the Scientists Lab, the Dirigible, the Nautilus, etc etc....

Oh I would so much like to do something like this.......the combination of theatre and lifestyle with a soupcon of re-cycling......let me at it!!!!

[Dr. Eldritch]

I'm in.  Just let me keep modern dentistry and climate control. 

I'll even go so far as to ditch my internet connection.  If I need to send a message, I'll go in person or help create jobs by using a telegraph office or hiring a street urchin to carry it for me.  I'll network with other inventors and conjurers at the Club.  I'll do my research at the library.  I'll visit the makers of my sartorial garb in person to make my custom-fitted purchases.  I'll pay for things with cash; if I don't have the cash, I don't need the item that badly.  I'll store my files in cabinets.  I'll pay to see live performances and will pay again another time if they were really really good.  I'll buy records and wax cylinders from musicians whose work I enjoy in hopes that they will make more good music.  I'll buy books from the many fine purveyors of literature to add to my increasing hoard of information.  Any Twitter around me will be made by the collection of birds at the Museum of Natural History.  I won't need cell phone service either; if your messenger cannot find me and I'm not answering the home phone you may leave a note for me at the Club or find me in person at my usual haunts. 

Yeah, "backwards into the future" is my motto.

Regards,
Eldritch

[The Mechanic]

Being a Jack of all trades, I would have to say yes. You'll need me there.

[Isabella Stormrift]

Huzzah, more people interested!

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

Strangely, Gearhart isn't that expensive.  My father's been looking into land in that area....

Indeed, I just found 30.87 acres, which although a little smaller than I've been looking at but would still work, in Gearhart for $900kUS.

Of course, the 200+ acre lands I've found further down the coast are far better, I think.  Especially since we're looking at roughly $300kUS.

[Isabella Stormrift]

Strangely, Gearhart isn't that expensive.  My father's been looking into land in that area....

Indeed, I just found 30.87 acres, which although a little smaller than I've been looking at but would still work, in Gearhart for $900kUS.

Of course, the 200+ acre lands I've found further down the coast are far better, I think.  Especially since we're looking at roughly $300kUS.

Yes, it was a nice thought, but surely we'll get a lot better deal elsewhere. Besides, we can always come up with a lovely name for the community and become big enough to be our own town, over time

[Magister]

You make it sound as though we're out to control people's lives. We're not "outlawing" things, just requesting that non-steampunk-appropriate things be kept out of sight of visitors.

How would you propose to go about such a thing without the "Big Brother" feel?

I don't know of a better way to achieve that goal, though I don't think that goal is necessarily one that should be sought after. Designing city ordinances to make everything look steampunk is going to be a ridiculously varied and subjective thing. No one can even agree on what steampunk actually is even on this forum. From what I've read, a consensus can't even be fully reached in this thread. I think it will turn out to be very very hard to please everyone.

More to the point, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and there is a ridiculously huge potential for eventual abuse of the system in trying to make the public face of a group conform to such a fluid and individual ideal. I predict the whole thing would fall apart within twenty years.

Don't let me stop you from trying. I'm just saying, first that I would never move there, and second that you should be aware of the trials of personal freedoms that will come up.

[Gazongola]

It is also going to be horrifically expensive.

[Dr. Oliver Cross]

Very good points all.. no sales tax, eh? Pahh, we're stuck with a 19% sales tax around these parts!

Ok, looking at the map then.. I'm looking at the northwest of Oregon. It is too bad the three largest cities of the state are pretty much in a straight line from each other. Just trying to capture as large a potential audience as possible, I think Clatsop, Columbia, Washington and Tillamook. You don't want to be too far from major population centers, I think this region would be a good compormise, Portland and Salem aren't too far away, further to the north you also got Olympia in WA. Now I'm not too familiar Oregon, so I don't really know all that much about this region.. any thoughts?

Clatsop, Columbia, Washington, and Tillamook counties are all good choices, with solid population bases and ease of access.  We might also want to include Clackamas and Marion counties, and for that matter Lincoln county might also be worth adding to the list.  All of these are within easy day trip distance of Portland, and all of them contain large, LARGE swaths of land usable for the purpose.  For that matter, that description also fits the centre of it all, Multnomah county, the county containing Portland.  Placing it near enough to the big city to allow for public transportation travel would be a wonderful idea, I think.  (The Trimet system of busses and light rail trains extends throughout Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas counties.)

Should I look further into land in these counties?

[heavyporker]

Man... I am just drooling at the thought that we could actually just up and do this... *sigh*...


     Anyways - about the two people arguing over who gets to run an inn... why not do both? Inns, to me, connote a B&B (which is what, 1 to 4 rooms?) writ slightly large, like 10 rooms. For a tourist attraction, that might be too few, and yet, too much for only one man/woman to oversee.  This way, you can serve an expanding audience, and you can have different themes.

     One could go towards a more mad-scientist route with reconstructed Roombas running around cleaning the floors and "robot butlers" bringing around tea ( I remember reading a kid's robotics book that let one make a RC-car with a frame atop that let it appear like a robot), and antique scientific prints and lithographs and daguerrotypes and such on the walls. Hire some craftsmen to make the Mad Scientist Lamps that we all love, with the exposed bulbs and copper pipe structures. Wallpaper with gears or machines in a repeating pattern. Mechanized chandeliers that can spin around in cycles like orreries. Maybe instead of a television in each room, you might have antique-style projectors or even better, zoetropes! Yessssss!
      The competing inn could go for a more realistically Victorian aesthetic, lovely flowery or damask or pictorial-scene wallpaper, potted plants everywhere (please put in an attached greenhouse!), real live maids and butlers, all that sort of fluffiness that a disturbing number of women flip out over.
      Decide between yourself who is to run which.


     I enthusiastically support the idea of a gourmet chef setting up in the village. Make his restaurant separate from the inns, though, might get nasty if they had to fight over getting his services for in-house cuisine. Plus he will be too busy, anyway. His job will also be greatly enhanced by extremely local and fresh produce and meats if the steampunk town does some on-site agriculture and livestock production... Plus, guys... may I mention greenhouses?! There's no way a gourmet restaurant will suffer in food quality there.


   I have to express extreme reluctance to that 20 foot by 20 foot idea... that's barely larger than my room and I feel somewhat claustrophobic here.... what about making the standard template 30' by 30'? That would also work much better for ground-floor level businesses and workshops anyway, do you have any idea how much space even basic equipment and supplies-storage consume?! Not to mention you're also trying to get at least a couple families to move in, get some children running about. That will add to the ambiance to no end, especially if you grub them up a little and give them chimney-sweeping brooms. Heh.

   May I also suggest Ohio, for its access to rusticness, farmland, and general population? I can also attest to the presence of distinct seasons...heh heh heh Ha ah HA HA HA!!!! I also feel compelled to suggest New Hampshire and point to the Free State Project, which might appeal enormously to some of the forum's members concerns over rights and freedoms, especially in regards to property.


   Why limit structures to frames and brick facades? This is a nice, solid opportunity to bring in some green building techniques, like sod building, and so on and so on, plus why omit solar panels if they can be hidden on roofs away from eyes? That could provide a significant boost to power capacity. And windmills are ALWAYS good.  ALWAYS. Don't skimp on the windmills. Hell, get a couple of these big honkers nearby, see if you can't get these megawatts to zap some cash into the town's coffers.

 I have some more ideas, but I will let the above percolate for now.

[Oddfellow]

I was never a large city sort of person, and my tastes were always more for antiquated aesthetics than antiquated technology. I'll have to give that a miss in favor of a small city's historical district.

Also, what's up with all the meticulous planning? I go through a few pages and for a moment I thought the Party had come to town.

[Isabella Stormrift]

Very good points all.. no sales tax, eh? Pahh, we're stuck with a 19% sales tax around these parts!

Ok, looking at the map then.. I'm looking at the northwest of Oregon. It is too bad the three largest cities of the state are pretty much in a straight line from each other. Just trying to capture as large a potential audience as possible, I think Clatsop, Columbia, Washington and Tillamook. You don't want to be too far from major population centers, I think this region would be a good compormise, Portland and Salem aren't too far away, further to the north you also got Olympia in WA. Now I'm not too familiar Oregon, so I don't really know all that much about this region.. any thoughts?

Clatsop, Columbia, Washington, and Tillamook counties are all good choices, with solid population bases and ease of access.  We might also want to include Clackamas and Marion counties, and for that matter Lincoln county might also be worth adding to the list.  All of these are within easy day trip distance of Portland, and all of them contain large, LARGE swaths of land usable for the purpose.  For that matter, that description also fits the centre of it all, Multnomah county, the county containing Portland.  Placing it near enough to the big city to allow for public transportation travel would be a wonderful idea, I think.  (The Trimet system of busses and light rail trains extends throughout Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas counties.)

Should I look further into land in these counties?

This sounds fantastic. I think being within public transport of Portland could do wonderful things for us.

heavyporker-
The two themes for the inn/B&B sound amazing. I will admit that the "frilly girly" small B&B was the sort of thing I had in mind personally, but the mad-scientist inn sounds fantastic too.

As for the sizes of things, I must admit I'm lacking the spacial relation skills to read the numbers and realize the actual size of the thing.  I'm sure I'll be fine with whatever the group decides, as there will surely be some claustrophobic types arguing it out with the space conservation types

I believe the idea behind the frames-and-facades was ease and cost effectiveness of construction. Solar panels on roofs sounds like a marvelous idea. I believe we've already discussed the ideas of waterwheels/windmills as both fitting the aesthetic and helping with cash.