Non-steamed steampunk guns

[Argus Fairbrass]

Nice. Where did you aquire this fine weapon?

That looks like a Denix Pepperbox, available almost everywhere

Indeed it is, purchased from here.. and there's a sale on..
http://www.baytree-interiors.co.uk/item/G1071L/pepperbox.html
Actually tempted to get another one at this price..

Yes I quite fancy being a duel wielder myself, but they are quite heavy aren't they.  

[Combat Gerbil]

They are indeed weighty little blighters for their size..
There are instances know of men carrying a matched pair of pepperboxes in holsters about the waist.

I guess you'd need two just to balance the weight..

[CoastConFan]

Pepperboxes are a favorite of mine.  I think a spotting laser recessed into the middle of the barrels would steam one up up quite nicely.  Additionally, a bar hammer type, such as an Allen Patent model would be pretty sleek, being double action.  These pre-revolver type handguns always look ultra modern in a Victorian manner.

[Eldrock]

I'd like to get a replica of this pistol. It look very punky to me.

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/savage_north.htm




Chris

[Argus Fairbrass]

I don't think that's ugly at all, it looks quite wicked actually.

They are indeed weighty little blighters for their size..
There are instances know of men carrying a matched pair of pepperboxes in holsters about the waist.

I guess you'd need two just to balance the weight..

Yes it's definitely the holsters which are the challenge. I know of nowhere that sells them, and despite what I've read to the contrary, these particular models are definitely too bulky and heavy to carry in ones pocket.

[Eldrock]

Speaking of holsters, I wonder what/which holster would be a good fit for a Volcanic pistol.



Chris

[Combat Gerbil]

I don't think that's ugly at all, it looks quite wicked actually.

They are indeed weighty little blighters for their size..
There are instances know of men carrying a matched pair of pepperboxes in holsters about the waist.

I guess you'd need two just to balance the weight..

Yes it's definitely the holsters which are the challenge. I know of nowhere that sells them, and despite what I've read to the contrary, these particular models are definitely too bulky and heavy to carry in ones pocket.

Some good info here (and source of that pic) on Pepperbox holsters. I guess you'd have to either get one custom made or have a go yourself.
The simplest holster in one pic is a ring of stiff leather that the gun sits in. Next is a single piece of leather folded over the gun and sewn to shape trigger side, with either reinforced cuts in the back or a seperate loop/fold over, for the belt to go through.

[elvisroe]

Loving all the pepperboxes!!

I've just started making one using some steel tubing off-cuts and copper napkin rings



The size of the copper was a perfect fit for 5 barrels and I think I'll put a small brass rod in the middle.

For a grip/trigger etc I'm thinking of basing it on the Webley signal gun..


Suggestions welcome! 

 

[Argus Fairbrass]

I quite fancy having a stab at making the bottom one (well you know kind of an equivalent) These are "The Darkness" guns from the video game. If I was going to have a steamy gun that's the kind of thing I'd like. It fires like a Gatling gun in game, so needless to say it works on magic. On getting the pepperbox replica I realised that the barrels are actually bored and grooved from one solid piece of metal, hence the weight.

I'd be perfectly happy to make barrels using single pipes of course, it would give it a slightly more Gatling/minigun appearance but that's fine too. I did wonder if the Denix replica could be modded, but it's a totally different shape. You'd pretty much have to remove the barrel and scratch build or at least piece together everything else. Still an interesting challenge.

I think the Webley idea seems sound but I'm no expert.

[mephit]

I posted this one a few years ago to the original collective gun thread, but I notice it's not yet been mentioned here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Franz Pafsler's 1887 repeating pistol, firing 8mm rounds. This appears to be the direct ancestor of the Bittner repeating pistol of 1893. They certainly seem to use the same mechanism, which is quite unique. It's a lever-operated bolt breach as can be seen in the patent illustration below. Sliding the bolt back ejects any spent shell in the chamber and cocks the firing mechanism. sliding the bolt forward peels the next round from the magazine and loads it into the chamber while sealing the breach. This works just like any other bolt-action lock. However, unlike any other bolt mechanism I've ever run across, the bolt is shot with the trigger-guard ring. Forward to open the bolt, back to close it. Pulling the ring fully back allows the trigger to slide through a slot in the ring, contact the finger and be pulled along with the ring to fire the round. One finger does it all, though it's an awfully long trigger throw!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The patent illustration also makes clear that the weapon was loaded with a removable clip up through the bottom of the gun. The under-barrel lever was sprung to push the rounds up through the clip. Shells seem to have ejected out the right side of the gun (the one I have no pictures of, more's the pity) The only mechanical differences I can find between the Pafsler and Bittner pistols is the Pafsler had a modern, insertable magazine whereas the later Bittner went with a more conventional (for the day) enclosed magazine top-fed via stripper. Perhaps the Pafsler was less reliable, or just too far ahead of things. Also, the calibre may have been different. Pafsler's is said to be 8mm whereas Bittner's is 7.7mm. This may be just a rounding error, however. The Pafsler appears to be either 7 or 8 shot assuming a round in the chamber, but I don't know for sure, nor do I know how this compares to the Bittner.

I love this gun! It's such an oddly brilliant design. It also looks just so damned Victorian. There's no way you could mistake this beast for any other time period. I was building a full-size, non-working replica of it a while back and was almost finished with it when it was knocked off a bookcase and shattered. <sighs> I haven't been able to bring myself to try again yet. I made a fundamental error with the making anyway. I tried to mould the entire thing in one piece from Sculpey and bake it solid. Things like the barrel and trigger and such were too small and overcooked, becoming brittle, whereas the main body didn't get quite fully cured. I think I'll have to try again with somewhat different approaches. Oh, well.

[Eldrock]

The Bittner looks like it could be a forebear of the Bergmann Model 1896.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Bergmann.htm

[mephit]

The Bittner looks like it could be a forebear of the Bergmann Model 1896.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Bergmann.htm

In style, they're certainly related, but the mechanisms are very different. The Bergman uses a more modern blowback mechanism (it's basically cribbed from the C96) to be a truly semi-automatic pistol in the modern sense. Load, cock and pull the trigger repeatedly until empty. The Pafsler and Bittner guns require the shooter to reload after every shot, they just manage to do that reloading in a very simple and quick way using the guard-ring lever mechanism.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Bittner.htm
Here you can see the mechanism in some detail of the Bittners owned by Horst Held. You can easily see its mechanism is the same as that described in the Pafsler patent drawings.

[Eldrock]

Yes, I checked that out last night, after I read your posting. Some real interesting firearms there.



Chris

[OswaldBastable]

Great post mephit, not that heard of that weapon before, it certainly shows some interesting original ideas for a pistol. plus it looks rather cool as well

[akumabito]

Wow, I really like that Bittner design! Never heard of it before, ut it looks awesome..

[mephit]

Thanks all! It is indeed a great gun and happily I now know a bit more about it. I started doing a little searching again after being frustrated with what little I could find a few years ago. Apparently, the site I originally found the gun on had the name wrong. It's an easy mistake to make in this case. The patent was hand-written (as would have been the norm in the 1880s) and the writer used the also usual-for-the-day long s in his name. Therefore, Passler looks very much like Pafsler unless you know what you're looking at. Franz Passler and Ferdinand Seidl were the patentees of this design and produced at least a few of the Passler Seidl Repeating Pistol starting in 1887. Best of all, I now have found a couple of shots of the right side of this weapon and one showing the clip in place. Whee! (Is it sad that I'm this inordinately happy about two internet pictures and a couple of dead Germans?) I'm now sorely tempted to start making a prop reproduction again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's a shot of the right side with the clip in situ. It also seems to verify the 7.7mm calibre which, incidentally, is the same as .303 calibre. I have to admit I really like the long barrel on this one. Looks to be right at 7 inches or 178mm. Perfect for making a carbine converter!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And another look at the right side, now with the bolt closed but the trigger disengaged.

[Uncle Arthur]

An amazingly "Buck Rogers" looking weapon. I LIKE it!

[akumabito]

The curvature of the mag makes it look a bit like a scaled-down AK57 mag..

[mephit]

And apparently the Passler was not the first bolt action pistol! I've just found an even earlier one from 1884, the Schulhof. It seems this lock mechanism was tried by several German gunsmiths over the course of about 15 years before being abandoned.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Schulhof.htm
The Schulhof is even weirder than the Passler or Bittner guns, though, in that the cartridges were stored nose-to-tail (think Winchester tubular magazine) in the grip. This may be the first pistol ever to have it's magazine in the grip. I'm not totally clear on the mechanism, but it seems to be that the ammunition feeds up along the bottom of the grip and around in a gentle curve until it's aligned with the bottom of the bolt and ready to load. That's kinda wild. It's interesting that these bolt-action pistols seem to have started off totally out there and slowly become more conventional with every new iteration.

And now for a totally different direction of kinda wild. I don't know when this was made or by whom or anything. Nobody else seems to either. It's kind of the spiritual ancestor of the Mateba Autorevolver. Very strange looking beast.
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Prototype.htm

But now friends, let us leave the realm of the brilliantly wacky and look straight in the face of total insanity! Here we have what may be the most mad-scientist weapon I've ever seen. Is it pistol or is it clarinet? Mwahahahahahahahahaha! Hope you don't get a chain-fire!
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Confederate.htm

[akumabito]

That site is a treasure trove of weird and wild weapons..

This gun wins some style points, right? http://www.horstheld.com/0-Libeau.htm

I also like these..
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Noel.htm

But really, there are just too many awesome contraptions on that site..

[Will Howard]

Wow! I like the 1847 Libeau gun a lot!

[Darkhound]

Regarding the Noel (or any other) turret revolvers, I cannot approve of any design that has as many bullets pointed at me as downrange when fully loaded.

The Libeau does have style just dripping off it, doesn't it?

[mephit]

Regarding the Noel (or any other) turret revolvers, I cannot approve of any design that has as many bullets pointed at me as downrange when fully loaded.

Yeah, that's another style of firearm you truly don't want a chainfire in. You'll only get one, though! 

[mephit]

But really, there are just too many awesome contraptions on that site..

Yep, it's almost as much of a time sink as TVTropes or the SCP Foundation. One of these days I'm going to have to trek to Midlothian, Texas (wherever that is) and see the collection up close.

[Eldrock]

And apparently the Passler was not the first bolt action pistol! I've just found an even earlier one from 1884, the Schulhof. It seems this lock mechanism was tried by several German gunsmiths over the course of about 15 years before being abandoned.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Schulhof.htm
The Schulhof is even weirder than the Passler or Bittner guns, though, in that the cartridges were stored nose-to-tail (think Winchester tubular magazine) in the grip. This may be the first pistol ever to have it's magazine in the grip. I'm not totally clear on the mechanism, but it seems to be that the ammunition feeds up along the bottom of the grip and around in a gentle curve until it's aligned with the bottom of the bolt and ready to load. That's kinda wild. It's interesting that these bolt-action pistols seem to have started off totally out there and slowly become more conventional with every new iteration.

And now for a totally different direction of kinda wild. I don't know when this was made or by whom or anything. Nobody else seems to either. It's kind of the spiritual ancestor of the Mateba Autorevolver. Very strange looking beast.
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Prototype.htm

But now friends, let us leave the realm of the brilliantly wacky and look straight in the face of total insanity! Here we have what may be the most mad-scientist weapon I've ever seen. Is it pistol or is it clarinet? Mwahahahahahahahahaha! Hope you don't get a chain-fire!
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Confederate.htm

I really like that second one.



Chris