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elvisroe
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« Reply #375 on: November 28, 2011, 11:43:24 am » |
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re the Mateba MTR-8, I think it was an early attempt to eliminate some of the lift that tend to plague sports revolvers by placing the barrel lower and more in line with the arm. Clearly not a great success!
The more recent models have achieved this by firing from the lower chamber in the cylinder rather than the top. Makes sense!
The .357 Chiappa Rhino also works on this principle and I hear it's a joy to fire. I've never seen one in the flesh but would love to take one for a test drive!
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Gooberz
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« Reply #376 on: December 05, 2011, 05:39:50 am » |
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 Since we've got full size Browning M2's and 1919's in this thread, surely a subma- steam-gun would fit?  Terrible puns aside, I really think that with some wood and brass this could fit right into a Dirigible scout unit's arsenal.  |
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:48:45 am by Gooberz »
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Captain Shipton Bellinger
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« Reply #377 on: December 05, 2011, 10:06:50 am » |
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Chaps, interesting though they may be, may I respectfully remind everyone that discussion of modern firearms (post 1914) is verboten on Brass Goggles.
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Capt. Shipton Bellinger R.A.M.E. (rtd) |
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Tower
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« Reply #378 on: December 05, 2011, 11:07:39 am » |
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Thats the problem with being a punk, its hard to follow rules.
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
 England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #379 on: December 11, 2011, 04:15:55 pm » |
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Thats the problem with being a punk, its hard to follow rules.
Quoted for truth. I actually broke the rule quite unintentionally recently. There are several types of Mauser C96 Box Cannon pistol. They look almost identical, but the originals we can discuss, the later Edit: (WW11 and) post Treaty Of Versailles re designs we technically can't. And of course this, easily confused but the top one is fine, the bottom one is not. Still who'd have thought a Colt .45 could be Steampunk! |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 04:26:23 pm by Argus Fairbrass »
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Have her steamed and brought to my tent!
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Xenos
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« Reply #380 on: December 11, 2011, 07:32:57 pm » |
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Thats the problem with being a punk, its hard to follow rules.
Quoted for truth. I actually broke the rule quite unintentionally recently. There are several types of Mauser C96 Box Cannon pistol. They look almost identical, but the originals we can discuss, the later post Treaty Of Versailles re designs we technically can't. And of course this, easily confused but the top one is fine, the bottom one is not. Still who'd have thought a Colt .45 could be Steampunk! Oh, the CAS uses them for their "Rough Rider" competitions. I kinda always figured if the CAS uses 'em... Anyway, taking away that, it's the perfect blend of form, safty, and function. And I am not EXACTLY sure what that has to do with anything, but I figured it's important. ALL HAIL THE BROWNING DESIGN!!! |
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Don't let these shakes go on, it's time we had a break from it. Send me to the rear! Where the Tides of Madness swell, and men sliding into Hell...
Oh please don't let these shakes go on...
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KABAR2
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« Reply #381 on: December 12, 2011, 01:26:14 am » |
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I actually posted this on the cowboy action shooting thread and thought I would move it over here..... Some nice pre-1914 firearms..... Got around to digging around in the armory for some of my toys.......  Here is my 1879 Riech revolver and a secondary British WWI revolver.... a 455 ELBAR m1914...   The Riech revolver is Germanys answer to the old Colt Walker it is massive..... a novel idea was the side safety wouldn't want a trooper shooting one's self by accident..... this one has been broken so when time permits I will make a new one.....    During WWI England France & Russia could not build arms fast enough to meet their war needs.... All three turned to America and England and France also supplemented arms with ones ordered from Spain, the 455 Elbar is an interesting gun in that it is a copy of a Smith & Wesson Schofield with the addition of a Merwin & hulbert skull crusher...... As I dig through the armory I'll add a few more toys.......  |
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 01:28:52 am by KABAR2 »
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Alter-ego Baron Rinehold Tredmore on Sparegoggles
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #382 on: December 12, 2011, 02:28:55 am » |
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Wow it sounds like you have quite an impressive collection. I must confess I've taken quite a liking to the transitional revolver design. Particularly the ring trigger (or whatever the technical term is) designs. And I still have a bit of a pepperbox fixation. Sadly I can't find a replica of the ones here. I did hear talk of Colt producing this hybrid, but whether they ever did I don't know. |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 04:22:54 pm by Argus Fairbrass »
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Darkhound
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« Reply #383 on: December 12, 2011, 09:26:46 am » |
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I'm pretty sure Colt never made the pepperbox above, as it would be about as expensive to make as the revolver the frame is for, without any of the advantages of a true revolver. In an emergency, someone might take a damaged barrel off a Colt cap and ball revolver completely and fabricate something to hold the cylinder on the pin, making a kind of pepperbox with a barrel length of 0" out of it, but things would have to be pretty dire to try that! I have heard of Colts with the barrel cut down to the front of the frame for concealed carry, but even that was never a regular production item.
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"Stupidity is a curse with which even the Gods struggle in vain. Ignorance we can fix."
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Captain Reech
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« Reply #384 on: December 12, 2011, 11:16:40 am » |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villar-Perosa_aircraft_submachine_gunDespite there being a number of weapons that ALMOST made it as an SMG within the period allowed for discussion I think (although I may be wrong!) that the above is the only pistol calibre, full auto that was produced/adopted for military use before 1916. A splendidly steam punk looking weapon it was designed for use as an early aircraft weapon it was not much use as originally intended because the short, low powered, cartridge didn't have the range for aircraft to aircraft combat. It was more useful as a fixed emplacement defensive weapon as, at short range, it's phenomenal rate of fire could be devastating. I think it would be ideally suited for use on an airship Gondola (perhaps as an anti boarding weapon instead of the swivel guns that sailing ships used to carry?)
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"I didn't 'Blow it up' I 'Modified the way it works' OK?"
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elvisroe
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« Reply #385 on: December 15, 2011, 12:29:55 am » |
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I actually posted this on the cowboy action shooting thread and thought I would move it over here..... Some nice pre-1914 firearms..... Got around to digging around in the armory for some of my toys....... Here is my 1879 Riech revolver and a secondary British WWI revolver.... a 455 ELBAR m1914... The Riech revolver is Germanys answer to the old Colt Walker it is massive..... a novel idea was the side safety wouldn't want a trooper shooting one's self by accident..... this one has been broken so when time permits I will make a new one..... During WWI England France & Russia could not build arms fast enough to meet their war needs.... All three turned to America and England and France also supplemented arms with ones ordered from Spain, the 455 Elbar is an interesting gun in that it is a copy of a Smith & Wesson Schofield with the addition of a Merwin & hulbert skull crusher...... As I dig through the armory I'll add a few more toys....... Nice pair - I've never seen those reich pistols before. Ugly, but interesting- thanks for sharing! |
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #386 on: December 15, 2011, 04:17:59 pm » |
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I'm pretty sure Colt never made the pepperbox above, as it would be about as expensive to make as the revolver the frame is for, without any of the advantages of a true revolver. In an emergency, someone might take a damaged barrel off a Colt cap and ball revolver completely and fabricate something to hold the cylinder on the pin, making a kind of pepperbox with a barrel length of 0" out of it, but things would have to be pretty dire to try that! I have heard of Colts with the barrel cut down to the front of the frame for concealed carry, but even that was never a regular production item.
Sorry, I should probably ammend the info there as memory failed me and I got it a bit wrong. It wasn't Colt themselves, it was in fact these guys. http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1851-Pepperbox-c310.htmActually on the subject of the Colt .45, I found the one I was mainly thinking of. http://www.yourprops.com/Spicer-Lovejoy-s--David-Warner--Semi-Automatic-Colt--45-original---screen-used-prop-weapons-Titanic--1997--prop-40580.htmlThat's an engraved presentation model and I thought it was quite a clever prop detail on the filmakers part. The 1911 was adopted by the army that year. Apparently field tests first began in 1907. Titanic sank in 1912, and anyone owning a presentation model of that gun would have had to be fairly wealthy and connected I would imagine. |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 04:49:36 pm by Argus Fairbrass »
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KABAR2
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« Reply #387 on: December 15, 2011, 06:58:48 pm » |
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Even with money I doubt they would have had a 1911 fully engraved and nickeled in 1912..... it would have been more accurate to have a M1902 in 38 acp or a 1905 in 45 acp I myself would pick the M1903 38 pocket model.... it is basicly a shortened 1902.... I have one in my collection I'll dig it out and do some photo's...  1902 Colt 38 rimless colt auto  1903 Colt pocket 38 rimless Colt auto  1905 Colt 45 rimless auto And as far as mother of pearl grips..... as Patton said "only a pimp in a New Orleans whorehouse would have mother of pearl grips" Ivory is the way to go.... |
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #388 on: December 15, 2011, 07:35:40 pm » |
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It's true it would have been unusual, but not wholly implausible back then. Presentation models can often be a bit on the pimped out side. I'm not sure who was engraving for them in 1912, It could have been William H Gough. http://www.coltautos.com/1908vpeng.htmhttp://collectorebooks.com/gregg01/coltpistol/Lot-2225.htmAnyway yeah by all means, show us yer (pre 1914) Colts!  |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 08:10:28 pm by Argus Fairbrass »
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KABAR2
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« Reply #389 on: December 15, 2011, 08:32:16 pm » |
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Oh I have no problem with engrqaving....no problem with plated guns ... just hate to see a nice gun with pearl grips when ivory was to be had.... and yes the rich could get what they wanted.... but I doubt a non production M1911 which was being marketed to the military would have gotten into anyone's hands as early as 1912 Colt would be trying to protect their new design not let it out for public consumption.
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #390 on: December 16, 2011, 02:01:46 am » |
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Without trying to sound pedantic, I have read in several places that some military surplus models were marked NRA and made available to National Rifle Association members in 1912. What I meant about it being a clever prop model was that David Warner's character in Titanic is a bodyguard. So quite possibly ex military, wealthy and connected (at least to the NRA), as you would need to have been to own a presentation model of that gun in 1912.
And personally I still prefer wooden grips, engraved or not.
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The Mysterious Mr Murphy
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« Reply #391 on: December 16, 2011, 06:58:46 am » |
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The military/weapons advisor for Titanic did advise using an older model, or a Colt Model M (M1903/1908).
The director chose otherwise.
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Argus Fairbrass
Rogue Ætherlord
England
So English even the English don't get it!
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« Reply #392 on: December 16, 2011, 08:12:44 am » |
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Yes it does seem highly unlikely he would have had that model. It certainly seems unlikely that he would have had that model nickel plaited and engraved. There is also some debate as to when Colt were offering nickel plaiting. But as I posted a gold plaited model N from 1912 among others up there. With mother of pearl grips which are a standard on presentation models. I think it's safe to assume that theoretically they could have offered any finish desired to those willing to pay for it. Or the work simply could have been done by someone else entirely. Apparently the question over the accuracy of Spicer Lovejoy's Colt is a bit of a FAQ. Here's a possible explanation from the Titanic FAQ's page. http://www.andrys.com/tfaq.html2.3 Is Lovejoy's pistol historically accurate?
Rather than rely on my (perfect, but short) memory, I've looked up the
history of the Colt .45 Auto ("Hallock's .45 Auto Handbook", Kenneth
R. Hallock, and "The Colt .45 Automatic, A Shop Manual", Jerry
Kuhnhausen).
The first Colt .45 Automatic for military/civilian sales was the model
1905, which sold from 1905-1911. The next model was patented on August
14, 1911. Production of a military version began for the U.S. Army in
December 1911, with civilian version sales in starting March 1912
(serial numbers C1-C1899).
I think the David Warner character (Spicer Lovejoy) did NOT have the
1905 version; it's shape is distinctive enough that it would be
obvious if it were. That leaves the model 1911. If it was a military
pistol, I think it wasn't legally owned. It could have been a
civilian version, since their production started the month before the
Titanic sailed, but it's unlikely; they probably had no European sales
in place at that time. Also, the pistol is nickel plated and engraved.
This is custom work and takes time to do; another reason that the
pistol wouldn't have been a civilian model.
So, Lovejoy's pistol was a military Colt M1911 in .45 caliber,
obtained with the influence of his employer, and custom plated and
engraved to his taste. So improbable? yes, but impossible? with that kind of money and influence, there ain't much that's impossible. |
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« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 08:46:49 am by Argus Fairbrass »
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tophatdan
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« Reply #393 on: December 17, 2011, 10:13:18 pm » |
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I just have to say. As much as I love those submachine guns, I do not find them to be terribly steamy...
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you gotta love livin babe, cause dyin is a pain in the ass -----
frank sinatra
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Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz
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« Reply #394 on: December 22, 2011, 08:33:09 pm » |
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The Volcanic Repeating Pistol (an ancestor of the Henry and the Winchester) is pretty steampunky in my opinion.  |
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« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 08:37:19 pm by Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz »
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KABAR2
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« Reply #396 on: December 22, 2011, 10:52:40 pm » |
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The Volcanic was an interesting design in that there was no cartridge case each bullet had a powder charge and primer in it's base... the first caseless cartridge.... the detractor on this was they were rather underpowered.... that is why when the design moved forward to become the Henry rifle it ended up with a rimfire cartridge.... Colt Gatling is a fine gun it is being reproduced by a company in Penn. they also reproduce the Gardner gun..... http://www.usarmamentcorp.com/The quality of their Gatling gun seems to have been noticed..... http://www.mgewholesale.com/colt/it appears they are now being sold as "Colt" gatlings...... I'll have to find out the whole story I have a friend who works for U.S. Armament Corp..... |
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elvisroe
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« Reply #397 on: January 02, 2012, 02:02:40 pm » |
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What about this for a steampunk option...  That's a Bittner Pistol - certainly unique! |
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KABAR2
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« Reply #398 on: January 02, 2012, 09:02:33 pm » |
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What about this for a steampunk option... That's a Bittner Pistol - certainly unique! Yes I could see that being used..... it does remind me a tiny bit of Mal's blaster on Firefly...... |
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Xenos
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« Reply #399 on: January 02, 2012, 09:10:32 pm » |
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What about this for a steampunk option... That's a Bittner Pistol - certainly unique! Yes I could see that being used..... it does remind me a tiny bit of Mal's blaster on Firefly...... Which was based off the Volcanic Repeater, apparently. (The firearm proper was actually a Taurus Model 85 revolver, TOTALLY modded out). |
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