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Author Topic: Fur?  (Read 11506 times)
PennyDreadful
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« Reply #150 on: November 28, 2008, 03:42:00 pm »

Historically animals were more useful if they could be used as an ongoing supply source rather than a one time use source. Gathering eggs, milk or wool was more efficient that just using the animal for the meat. The logic of getting the most out of the source implemented the use of the ongoing source until the animal was old or outlived its use, then it was use for meat. But everything else, skin, sinew and bone was used for something. Historically fur was the main source for warm clothing, that is why it was used. Today we have alternatives that are equally effective. Ironically fur works better when it is used as a lining rather than as the outer layer of a garment.

If people are going to use fur, using vintage fur is a less wasteful option. Reusing anything already created saves on resources, we already have too much consumption and waste. There is also a difference between fur and leather that is a by product of food and animals farmed solely for their fur. If your looking at layers of sustainability, waste or ethics, the type of fur and how it came to be creates layers of acceptability.

I have somewhere a set of baby seal collar and cuffs. My mother bought a coat in Spain in the 70's. Due to the language gap she was not aware the collar and cuffs were seal until she went through customs. My thought on the items was that it was unfortunate that they were ever created but it is even more sad to have them sit in a closet and rot. They used to be on my bomber jacket.

My opinion is that using vintage is a far more acceptable option for things like mink, fox, sable and those varieties of fur rather than buying new but for a number of reasons. Some of the new higher quality fakes are certainly an option and there are some very good ones.

One fur source I do have great issue with is fur coming out of China. A number of US retailers were found to have unspecified fur trim on coats that was found to be dog fur. There have been videos released of some gruesome things such as skinning a dog alive for the fur. So I won't buy anything newer retail with fur trim.
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Wayland2002
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« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2009, 04:55:52 pm »

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it before, House De Clifford has a wide range of ethically sourced fur:

http://www.houseofdeclifford.co.uk/

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Alfaya
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« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2012, 10:26:21 am »

Miss Bismuth, if you do choose to get your coat re-modelled, do take it to a specialist. I've been dressmaking for more than 10 years and having spent all afternoon unpicking my new coat, have come to the conclusion that i couldn't do it justice if i attempted anything more complex than a rectangular stole. It seems to be an odd mix of 'classic' tailoring techniques & using many layers of interfacing, and a lot of loose tacking. The majority of the panels are only about an inch wide and you can't see where the seams would be in a normal garmet, & you can't gage how much you'll loose in seam allowance easily.

I would love to have an heirloom coat or garment, something that held a little piece of our family history.
Totally agree, this is a terrific advise.

With reference to the use of mint leather... if you use other leather products, eat animal meat and so on, I don't see any trouble Smiley
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SteamBlast Mary
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« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2012, 05:23:53 pm »


Totally agree, this is a terrific advise.


The old "when in doubt, get someone else to do it"  Cheesy

In a bizarre coincidence of timings, the stole that the bottom edge of that coat became had it's first outing at the weekend, on a chilly Whitby [north-east coast] night. For warmth and attracting random strangers who wanted to stroke it, it performed admirably!
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Alfaya
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« Reply #154 on: May 02, 2012, 06:52:24 pm »

The old "when in doubt, get someone else to do it"  Cheesy

 Grin

In a bizarre coincidence of timings, the stole that the bottom edge of that coat became had it's first outing at the weekend, on a chilly Whitby [north-east coast] night. For warmth and attracting random strangers who wanted to stroke it, it performed admirably!

Good news then! Cheesy
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Honeythorn
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How unfortunate...


« Reply #155 on: May 02, 2012, 08:24:27 pm »

Dear oh dear some have really been roped in haven't they?  Roll Eyes

You do realise most of the conditions you describe have actually been recorded in the relatively small (globally ) number of fur farms which do not follow the laws imposed on such establishments? Such places are often backalley farms, or situated in countries such as China which has few to no animal welfare restrictions or laws.

It's a common ploy of animal rights organisations to not only use footage more than 10 years old ( PETA in particular have been proven to do this as well as actually make some of those horrific film themselves )  , but also to seek out the few places that do not abide by the rules, and then tar the entire industry with the same brush.


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The animals are kept usually 4 to a cage big enough to hold two.

Wrong for rule abiding fur farms in europe.

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Their diet is controlled.

So is that of any domestic or commercially kept animal, including your pets if you own any.


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The animals are then either gassed


With MASSIVE amounts of pure CO2, in one huge burst in a sealed chamber. Since no animal can breathe pure CO2, they lose conciousness in a matter of seconds ( and very few of them ) and are dead (whilst unconcious) within a few seconds more. It is THE quickest and most humane death they can possibly recieve  barring decapitation or spike gun direct to the brain.

It is also now widely used as it is a very cheap way to quickly and humanely end an animals life. Pretty much THE quickest.  


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poisoned

Not in Europe by law abiding farms, and is also not cost effective.

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or beaten to death so as not to damage the fur as any other form of humane slaughter could damage the pelts.

Possibly THE stupidest and most contradictory thing you've said so far. You think Beating it to a bloody death would not damage it's skin at all?

Have you even read what you've typed?

Quote
This type of info can be found on google

Ah now we can see where your gross misinformation is coming from.


You're so busy bleating badly mangled and wrong information that you've utterly failed to see the process from the point of view of the fur farm. Yes shockingly they are allowed and do have one.

Lets say you own a fur farm, you are breeding ... say mink, for their fur. You wish to have their fur in the best possible condition for sale to buyers.

So far so good. Makes sense from the farm owners perspective. You have a product ( to them that's all the beasts are ) and like any business with any product they want their goods in the best condition so as to be able to charge top dollar for it.

Therefore what possible sense would it make to cramp 4 beasts to a cage and have them covered in their own filth ?

NONE is the answer you are looking for. That's why Chinese fur is cheaper than european, as it's very much of a poorer quality due to them not treating the beasts correctly in the situation. They don't follow any animal welfare rules.

Animals kept in poor conditions, cramped 4 to a cage and covered in muck will not and do not develop healthy coats no matter what you feed them. Electrocuting them anally, beating them to death and bloating them with poison is neither cost effective, time effective or good for the end product.

A battered singed poison laced skin and fur will fetch no decent price .


In european fur farms the animals are kept one to a cage, and those cages have to be kept very clean so as no to cause any skin infections or conditions. An ill animal does not have good glossy thick fur.



I have no trouble with vintage fur whatsoever . The animal has been dead for who knows how many decades, refusing to use it will serve no purpose other than waste. It will save no living animals to refuse to use it. By buying vintage or second hand, you have no need to buy new. Thus you reduce the demand while still having a useful item.

If anything it's an appalling insult to refuse to use it IMO. A wasted life twice wasted
Bad enough for the poor sods to be skinned for their skins, and then some fool refuses to use a 20+ year old fur because the beast died in a way they don't like. It's been dead for decades. It doesn't give a monkey's.


To burn furs and/or throw them away reveals that you see them as nothing more than trash to be rid of . That's a horrible dishonour.


I happily wear and use vintage fur , and have no problem with legallly culled fur, as some species are massively invasive and are doing a great deal of harm to native wildlife and plantlife. These animals also die a very quick death, as they have to be shot by trained hunters and marksmen who need to be a crack shot to kill quickly and efficiently.


I wholeheartedly want the usage of furs FOR FASHION to stop. It's vile to me to spend all that money on a fur , almost never wear it, and only own it to show how much cash you have.
 

To me fur is a basic natural wearable for winter. I have no interest in fashion, or how expensive a coat looks. I wear real fur because it's the warmest "material" available  for outerwear

It vastly surpasses fake fur in warmth. Fake fur is horrifically UNenvironmentally friendly. It's made from plastic ( derived from oil and we all know what drilling that does to the planet ) and manufactured in the same way as household carpet. It's a load of plastic fibres woven onto a mesh. Mesh WITH HOLES IN IT. Those small holes do absolutely nothing to prevent cold air entering. Thus rendering such a coat pretty useless in cold weather.

Goretex? Not environmentally friendly. Most modern cold weather fabrics aren't, and no fake fur is.

Having worn both real and fake fur, and modern coats ect, I can say with all experience and honesty, real fur , leather and wool are all massively superior in keeping cold out and the body warm, and all of them will break down eventually into a more environmentally friendly and biodegradeable form  than most plastics. Even considering the tanning chemicals.


There is a good reason people in all the worlds coldest countries still use real fur even when modern plastic based fabrics are available. It's not just tradition. Fur simply works the best. Even your average everyday Joe in Russia ( for example) owns a fur hat and/or coat. They don't do it for the sake of fashion or to show how much money they have, they do it because it's the warmest thing to wear, and lasts for YEARS whilst still being wearable as an item of clothing.

It can be up and downcycled into other useful things when not useable for clothing ( cushions, blankets ect ) which extends it's life even further.

There are very few plastic based garments that can do the same.


I DO want the fur farming industry to scale down ( it will never stop as long as snow exists so I'm not stupid enough to try and wish for that to happen, it's called being realistic ) And I certainly think there are still a great many improvements in the welfare of the animals that can be made. How they live before death for example,  their diet and mental needs .

However, I also think people need to stop blindly believing any old footage and information they are fed on the internet via animal rights organisations. So many of these have been provedto be false or misguided and misinformed. Some basic common sense needs to prevail.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 09:50:41 pm by Honeythorn » Logged

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Honeythorn
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How unfortunate...


« Reply #156 on: May 02, 2012, 08:28:09 pm »

Also, For those sewing fur - I have found that a spare sewing needle works very well for separating hairs, as does blowing hard on the area to part the fur and see where you are stitching.

Of course you need to stitch on the skin side, and again the spare needle is useful to push any tufts of hair back to the fur side.
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Stella Gaslight
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« Reply #157 on: May 02, 2012, 11:01:11 pm »

Since this is from 2008 I am sure the person has the info they need and it looks like it the current topic the potential to get rather flame-ey so I am going to go on and lock this.  If you want to start another thread about crafting with fur go on ahead.
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