Master Pocketwatch Thread

[Professor Lidenbrock]

Yesterday afternoon I fitted a new battery into my (Dakota) pocket watch.
It is a fine looking watch but if there is any experience which illustrates the disparity between my life as it is & my life as I would wish it to be, then a battery operated pocket watch has to be it.:-)

[Major Francis Cleverly]

I found a lovely Waltham at the antique store last month, and just received it back from my horologist after a thorough cleaning and adjustment. The face needs cleaning (though honestly, I like the way it looks, so it probably won't receive it), but the movement is, according to him, "untouched". I'm pleased with my find.

The movement says about as much as I know about it from research: 19 jewel, "Riverside" grade, 1890's - 1910's.

Awful pretty, though.

Regards,
Alexander

Very nice watch!  I found a site: http://www.waltham.ch/cgi/waltham/search.asp that can be used to search for Waltham serial numbers.  I put yours in there, and it looks like a 1908 year of production.  There are some other fields in the results that I don't completely understand, but it looks like you were correct in your esimation of the date.

Again REALLY nice find.

[Anachronist]

Actually, I prefer this resource for waltham information: http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm.

The database not only contains information from the Waltham ledgers, but allows users to update entries with specific information about their particular watch. I would like to update the entry regarding my watch, but I don't know how to determine some of the characteristics they require. For instance, it is a simple matter to determine how many jewels (19) or plate design (bridge), but I couldn't say what type of regulator it has or even know what they're asking when they say "describe balance".

HAC, perhaps you could lend your assistance and expert eye?

Regards,
Alexander

[HAC]

I found a lovely Waltham at the antique store last month, and just received it back from my horologist after a thorough cleaning and adjustment. The face needs cleaning (though honestly, I like the way it looks, so it probably won't receive it), but the movement is, according to him, "untouched". I'm pleased with my find.







The movement says about as much as I know about it from research: 19 jewel, "Riverside" grade, 1890's - 1910's.

Awful pretty, though.

Regards,
Alexander

Nice Riverside, I had one very similar, that I dropped a Canadian Railroad style dial on. The movement on yours is in great shape. Riversides were fairly high up in the quality scale for Walthams.. I've been trying to find another one for a while, they are getting scarce.
  Yours is 3/4 plate, 19 jewels, adjusted to 5 positions , micrometer regulator , and I'll wager its lever set.  From what I can tell from the serial number, I'd hazard a guess at 1918-1919 for a manufacture date. Looks like the original case too, judging from the lack of screw marks on the case edge..
  That help?

Cheers
Harold

[Anachronist]

Nice Riverside, I had one very similar, that I dropped a Canadian Railroad style dial on. The movement on yours is in great shape. Riversides were fairly high up in the quality scale for Walthams.. I've been trying to find another one for a while, they are getting scarce.
  Yours is 3/4 plate, 19 jewels, adjusted to 5 positions , micrometer regulator , and I'll wager its lever set.  From what I can tell from the serial number, I'd hazard a guess at 1918-1919 for a manufacture date. Looks like the original case too, judging from the lack of screw marks on the case edge..
  That help?

Crown set, actually. I wish it was lever set! Here is a link to the input form for the Waltham SN database: http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/observations.asp?Model=1908&Name=Riverside&Size=16&Plate=3%2F4&Jeweling=19&Balance=&Comment=98&Style=OF&serial=22328272%22
How many of these fields can we fill in just looking at the back? If there are any that require physical access to the watch, can you describe how to find them?

Regards,
Alexander

[HAC]

All those fields can be determined from the movement top plate...

Yours-
  Jewelling pattern - 4 holes (number of visible jewel settings, not counting the balance staff)
  Plate - 3/4 
  Finish - Nickel damascened  (its shiny nickel plated steel, with what looks to be a patetrn on it)
  Hairspring - Breguet overcoil   (trust me here,)
  Regulator - whiplash regulator (thats what that style is called.
  Pendant Set
  Open Face
  Stem Wind

Your dial has "boxcar" numerals and appears to be "single sunk", as well as what appears to be (from the pic) a gold centre wheel

Better?

Cheers
Harold

[Anachronist]

Harold, you're a king among men. You've done the Waltham collectors' community a great service this day.

Regards,
Alexander

EDIT: It is set by pulling the stem up- I always called this "Crown set" or "stem set", but they don't have options for either. By what other names is this known?
EDIT EDIT: Never mind, google is my friend

[HAC]

Stem set = Pendant Set...

As for Walthams.. What I really want is a CPR Waltham...


Or perhaps a Vanguard with Wind Indicator.. (this one has a "dual time zone" set of hands...



Cheers
Harold

[S.Sprocket]

how does it take the windspeed?

[HAC]

how does it take the windspeed?

Not at all    - thats a wind indicator, as in how much wind is left in the mainspring, its sort of fuels gauge, tells you when the watch will need to be wound..

Cheers
Harold

[Major Francis Cleverly]

Or perhaps a Vanguard with Wind Indicator.. (this one has a "dual time zone" set of hands...

OMG that is the most beautiful watch face I've ever seen.  Love the "Wind" gauge.  Damn Harold, how your insidious pictures tempt me.

[HAC]

Those Walthams are pretty pricey.. That one will set you back nigh on $1600...

Would you settle for a Rolex Demi-hunter in 9K gold?  (no its not mine... )  $1200 will sang you this one..





The snail-cam regulator on that one is really neat..


There are lots of really great old pocket watches out there..

Cheers
Harold

[Major Francis Cleverly]

Those Walthams are pretty pricey.. That one will set you back nigh on $1600...

Would you settle for a Rolex Demi-hunter in 9K gold?  (no its not mine... )  $1200 will sang you this one..

The snail-cam regulator on that one is really neat..

There are lots of really great old pocket watches out there..

*wipes drool.

Yessir, there are many very nice watches out there.  If you have a moment, can you address one question, that is about quality of workmanship, value, etc.  What are the best (if not necessarily most expensive)?  My understanding is that there is a brand called - I think - Howard that are very very nice, with Waltham and Elgin and some others a little less good, and many of the dollar watches (like my Ingraham radioactive one I got) that are less than those.  Do you have any kind of list of quality or something like that?  (or maybe just an opinion, I think most everyone here would agree that you're the resident expert) 

I'm just curious, and would like to know what to "watch" out for.  -sorry couldn't help myself.

Thanks!

[HAC]

Personally, I prefer the classic American pocket watches.. As far as quality, all of them made some really great watches, the issue I consider most is whether or not I can get parts if I need to do a restoration..

As far as Howard, theye were a smaller manufacturer, and made some great watches, and they were able to concnetrate on higher grade models. That's not to say that the others were any less good, but consider that they made watches for all price ranges.
You'd be able to find  a model that was just as good as a Howard in any of the other makes. Howard parts are getting VERY hard to find.

If I had to make a list of makers that I'd keep an eye out to acquiring, it would be (in no particular order).


Hamilton
Waltham
Howard
South bend
Illinois
Rockford
Elgin


bear in mind that that's a personal bias, and there are others who would think differently.
Something else to consdier is that while railroad pocket watches are seen as the cream of the crop, lots of makers had gemntleman's
12 size dress pocket watches that were of an even higher standard. The Hamiton "Masterpiece" comes to mind.
 What I look for when checking out a pocket watch are a clean running movement with no rust, and a a clean dial. I prefer gold-filled cases, but a good stainless one is alos hard to beat. I'm not a big fan of base metal cases.
 
That help? Questions?

Cheers
Harold

[Major Francis Cleverly]

That help? Questions?

Brilliant!  Much help.  Now at least I know what to look for when browsing the antique stores.

[S.Sprocket]

whined, wind, potato, potaato...

[Kabuki]

That help? Questions?

Brilliant!  Much help.  Now at least I know what to look for when browsing the antique stores.

Hope you have better luck than I did with my locals...  Two of the shops I perused downtown were snotty to me.   They requested that I not wind any of the movements, "Because they will get over wound".  The third was run by a couple of little old ladies, and was where I purchased my Bourquin.  They let me wind it. 

[Major Francis Cleverly]

Hope you have better luck than I did with my locals...  Two of the shops I perused downtown were snotty to me.   They requested that I not wind any of the movements, "Because they will get over wound".  The third was run by a couple of little old ladies, and was where I purchased my Bourquin.  They let me wind it. 

I haven't had any negative experiences, aside from some being too expensive (gosh darn my light wallet!).  They will let me wind them and/or CAREFULLY remove the cover(s) to see what/if there are any serial numbers.  I've found several that I like, one's an Elgin from 1897 that is a sidewinder with roman numerals and a silver case (which I like better than gold) but it won't "go" ... I may purchase it anyway if I can and just get it fixed.  The other ones I've procured lately are gifts (I purchase stuff all year to give away all the time - crazy like that I suppose) that I need to make boxes and displays for.

Sorry again to hear about your bad luck with the local shops.  You should post some pictures of your watch.  I'd love to see it.

[skribb]

Speaking of pocket watches, does anyone know what to call a watch with a black face and possessing no cover (alternatively a transparent cover). Is that a military watch?

[Kabuki]

Speaking of pocket watches, does anyone know what to call a watch with a black face and possessing no cover (alternatively a transparent cover). Is that a military watch?

That's a pretty good description of my Westclox Scotty.  I'd like to know as well!

[Major Francis Cleverly]

Speaking of pocket watches, does anyone know what to call a watch with a black face and possessing no cover (alternatively a transparent cover). Is that a military watch?

That's a pretty good description of my Westclox Scotty.  I'd like to know as well!

I have one that fits that description as well, the Ingraham Radium "dollar watch" that I picked up a couple of days ago...



I has a cheap looking/feeling plasticky cover (whereas my elgin has a nice glass cover - though neither are "hunter-style")

[HAC]

Speaking of pocket watches, does anyone know what to call a watch with a black face and possessing no cover (alternatively a transparent cover). Is that a military watch?

It could be called miltary styled, as that was a style that was used in the military. Typically, military watches will allways be marked as such, usually with (in the UK, the US is different) with the "broad arrow' (the "pheon"), and G.S.T.P 9General Service TimePiece) markings, and serial number.

examples

Swiss Recta, 15 jewel, styled as you mentioned.. Note the the markings on the back. UK issue.
 

 


Bravia, again, Swiss, 15 jewel, but white dialed -


Note that under the broad arrow mark, is stamped an "S" - this indicates the watch was "Sold out of service", in this case, to Bravington's, a London jeweller, who sold quite a few military pocket watches after the war.



US military pocket watches typically had a mil-spec number, serial number and issue date on the back..

Cheers
Harold

[HAC]

That help? Questions?

Brilliant!  Much help.  Now at least I know what to look for when browsing the antique stores.

Hope you have better luck than I did with my locals...  Two of the shops I perused downtown were snotty to me.   They requested that I not wind any of the movements, "Because they will get over wound".  The third was run by a couple of little old ladies, and was where I purchased my Bourquin.  They let me wind it. 

Overwound is a misnomer, and an excuse by folks who simply don't know what they are on about. Usuallly a watch that is claimed to be overwound , either needs a good clean, or is 'Overbanked", in which the pallet lever has slipped over one of the banking pins, thus locking up the movement. Easy fix, too..  All manual wind watches will simply stop windong when you reach the maximum winding of the mainspring. Automatics (self-winders) have a cluth that will start to slip if you wanid past that maximum..

Cheers
Harold

[okoshima]

Ok, I returned my other watch due to faults, and picked up a new one.
It may not be old but I'm wanting to know more about it as it wasn't descriptive in the store or on the sekonda website.

on the face it has sekonda classique written on it and on the back it has chinese movement and the numbers 1107 and bjt

I do know its an automatic watch but that's about it, apart from a few visible jewels.









Many thanks and enjoy

[Kabuki]

Well, It's certainly pretty!  I, uh, kinda went crazy on ebay...  But I bought an old stop watch for $7.55, including shipping, and am bidding on a nifty lot of ladies wrist movements, as well as some other stuff.  Hope the wife doesn't get pissed...  :/