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Author Topic: Master Pocketwatch Thread  (Read 424026 times)
Rowan of Rin
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~The Black Blood Alchemist~


« Reply #1350 on: March 30, 2009, 09:53:26 am »

well, i just picked up my first pocketwatch. its a cheap chinese movement i picked up from ebay, but it looks good Smiley.

we'll see how accurate or reliable it is after a few days. just one question, how do you know when its ovewound?
It is very very hard to overwind a pocketwatch, you will know when to stop winding, as you will have to expert a lot of force to keep the knob turning. It is a very different feeling than normal winding, never fear!
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nathe
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« Reply #1351 on: March 30, 2009, 12:30:40 pm »

thanks rowan!, just found the spot Smiley

i really like it. pocket watches always suited me more then wrist watches (i've always used my phone before now, rather then a wrist watch), and its a skeleton type, so i can see the movement Cheesy
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HAC
Steam Theologian
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1352 on: March 30, 2009, 03:23:23 pm »

well, i just picked up my first pocketwatch. its a cheap chinese movement i picked up from ebay, but it looks good Smiley.

we'll see how accurate or reliable it is after a few days. just one question, how do you know when its ovewound?
It is very very hard to overwind a pocketwatch, you will know when to stop winding, as you will have to expert a lot of force to keep the knob turning. It is a very different feeling than normal winding, never fear!
True.. "Overwound" is a term used by folks to say "it won't run, and I don;t know why" when selling a watch.  You can snap an old mainspring, but the force required is such that you'll damage the keyless works as well.  If you think about it, you can really only wind a watch until the mainspring is completey compressed in the barrel. It simply stops winding at that point. Self winding watches have a clutch mechanism that slips and allows the rotor to still turn, even near full wind.  "Overwound" is an incorrect term.
  There is a condition called  overbanking, in which the pallet fork gets stuck on the wrong side of one of the banking pins. That will stop a watch for sure.
Don't worry,  if you wind slowly, you;'ll know when to stop..

Cheers
Harold
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nathe
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« Reply #1353 on: March 30, 2009, 11:21:41 pm »

thanks hac.

i'm slowly learning more and more about these awesome contraptions.

how would overbanking occur? on all the movements i've seen, the banking pins seem to tall to allow the pallet fork to cross them
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HAC
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1354 on: March 30, 2009, 11:29:10 pm »

There are two conditions that are called overbanking.. One is the one I described where the pallet fork can "jump" the banking pin, and lock. This usually occurs after a drop or other shock to the wtach. Generally, you'll also break the balance shaft wuth a sever drop, but it can happen. It can be aggravated by an improper repair, or a short banking pin.
 The more common condition is where  the roller jewel passes to the wrong side of the lever notch, causing one side of the pallet to rest against the banking pin and the roller jewel to rest against the other side, thus locking the escapement and stopping the motion of the balance. This is the more common form of overbanking..
  I suppose I didn;t explain that as well as I could have, but heck, there was a severe lack of coffee happening..

Cheers
Harold
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nathe
Snr. Officer
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Australia Australia


« Reply #1355 on: March 30, 2009, 11:49:38 pm »

thanks. i understood it quite well, so you havent done bad Smiley you certainly seem very knowlegable.
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HAC
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1356 on: March 31, 2009, 12:28:07 am »

Thanks.. been collecting and mucking about with watches for about 10 years, and have a pretty good instructor in my watchmaker..
Cheers
Harold
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Vienna Fahrmann
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Austria Austria


« Reply #1357 on: March 31, 2009, 02:31:55 am »


    I'm not sure this counts as a pocketwatch (I needed a watch to hang on a chatelaine), but I've just ordered an 18th century style (at least, that's what they say) watch from J. Peterman.  It is like a round sandwich with a battery operated watch in the middle and a rounded magnifier on both front and back, so that the overall silhouette looks rather like a marble.  I'm hoping that the quality is good enough to be worth the $35 they charge for it.

     Vienna
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garingling
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Smile, let them think you're up to something.


« Reply #1358 on: March 31, 2009, 06:34:42 am »

I have my Grandfather's pocket watch that I inherited back from being repaired so here are pictures of the beauty.
I have it on the desk as I like to hear it tick especially knowing it hadn't since the 60's.

It has a simple look and bears my grandfather's/father's initials JAA.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The serial is #158633 and it's 14k gold. Not shown, I also have a 10k watch chain that was with it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the inside clockwork it says E. Howard Watch Co. Boston USA, 17 Jewels, 952932 Adjusted, and PATD 05'. There is also a small engraved number (h 233) on the inside of the inner cover.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was originally told it was from around 1904 but then when I went to get it they said more like 1910. I was told it was rare and a very nice watch as it is an E. Howard and not just a Howard. The watch man valued it around $700 as it is a family heirloom it's not that important but I was quite surprised. I know very little beyond what I have been told and some of it is conflicting so any info would be welcome.
Thank you,
Georgia
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G is for gorgeous
E is for exciting
O is for odd (in the best possible way!)
R is for remarkable
G is for gentle
I is for intelligent
A is for awesome
Zwack
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And introducing the wonderful Irish (Mrs Z).


« Reply #1359 on: March 31, 2009, 04:03:14 pm »

The number on the movement (the clockwork bit) is the serial number.  The one on the case is a lot less useful as the case and the movement can be sold separately and even by made by radically different manufacturers.

Z.
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"At least those oddballs are interesting" - My Wife.
I'm British but living in America.  This might explain my spelling.
HAC
Steam Theologian
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1360 on: March 31, 2009, 04:21:32 pm »

That is a very nice watch indeed...

Howard as a comapny had a very interetsing history..
 
Edward Howard gained financial backing from Charles Rice in 1857 to try to construct the Howard Pocket Watch making company from the failed Waltham Watch Co. Although he was unable to purchase the entire company, he managed to lay claim to the parts and mechanisms that were in the process of being produced. He also managed to gain the use of all the tools and machinery from the factory. Howard lost no time in moving all the machinery, tools, parts and existing movements to Roxbury, Massachusetts, where he had aquired a watch making factory.
  From this beginning it wasn't until the summer of 1858 that his pocket watch finally left the factory. Howard wanted to produce his own pocket watch however and especially a new, high-grade watch. With this in mind Howard set up a new company - E. Howard & Co - in December 1858. The watch he created presented new innovations and improvements not seen in the watch making industry before. It had a new, "fast" or "quick-beat" train, a top plate in two sections with 6 instead of the usual 4 pillars, compensated balance and made in size 18. These movements were marked with the letter "N" for recognition purposes.
 A short time after this, Howard again showed his inventive spirit with the introduction of the first Stem-Wind movement. These movements by Howard were made until the early 1900s, all had enamel dials and were marked with the inscription "E. Howard & Co., Boston".

 The company never produced its own watch cases and in 1902 the rights to use the name "Edward Howard" were assigned to the watch case making company, the Keystone Watch Case Co. They produced watches with the name "Howard" on the dial and "E. Howard Watch Co", Boston. U.S.A" on the movement. Complete watches (that is - as manufactured) will therefore only ever be found from the Keystone Watch Case Co.

Before 1902, the company was known as E. Howard &  Co, after 1902, when it was transferred to KEystone, it became the E.Howard Watch Company.

 As for technical info, your watch serial number indiocates it was made between 1903 and 1909, (the serial range starting at 900,000 dates to 1903, the next reported serial range is 980,000 which was started in 1909.)  I'd make an educated guess at say late 1905 or easrly 1906.
 The movement in your watch appears to be a Howard 16s Series 9. Identifying Howards is always a pain, as there are no surviving factory records, and their system of cateagroizing movements was, well, rather eccentric.
  Howards are very collectable,and good ones are extremely rare. If I was evaluating that watch, I'd put a value of at least $1000.00 on it, perhaps a bit more, due to the fact that it is in the original case, in 14K, and has a pristine movement and dial.

Congrats on an excellent watch.. That's one that, if I had one in the same condition, would be the centrepiece and highlight of my collection..

Cheers
Harold
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HAC
Steam Theologian
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1361 on: March 31, 2009, 04:26:10 pm »

The number on the movement (the clockwork bit) is the serial number.  The one on the case is a lot less useful as the case and the movement can be sold separately and even by made by radically different manufacturers.

Z.
Not quite so with Howards, Howard used a non-standard movement  sizing method before 1902, and only Howard case's will fit Howard movements. Similarly after 1902, when production was transferred to Keystone, Howard watches were always sold with their own cases, you never saw an uncased Howard for sale.. In fact, Howard advertisements of the day quoted "Howard movements and cases are not sold separately".
  If you see a late model Howard (Keystone) in a non Howard (Keystone) case, then the collector value of the watch has been pretty much destroyed.

Cheers
Harold
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 05:03:07 pm by HAC » Logged
garingling
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« Reply #1362 on: March 31, 2009, 06:18:02 pm »

Zwack thanks I learn something new everyday.
_____________________

HAC thank you for all of the information on Howard pocket watches. I was really surprised to learn I had such a nice piece I'm still a bit shocked. My Dad always said it was a nice watch and was always afraid to have it repaired. Plus I know why the watch guy was so fond of my watch (he looked it over excitedly) and was a bit surprised to see what it was when I brought it to him. I'm really glad that my Dad hung on to it for 40+ years even though it didn't wind (another family member handled it rougher than they should have) although I always just assumed it was more for sentimental reasons. Of course now I feel like it should be in the safe and not just sitting on the desk  Cheesy.

Thank you again,
Georgia
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HAC
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1363 on: March 31, 2009, 06:47:45 pm »

No problem. Glad to have been able to help out.
Howards are truly special watches. Good ones are hard to find, and that one of yours is one of the good ones...

Cheers
Harold
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Zwack
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And introducing the wonderful Irish (Mrs Z).


« Reply #1364 on: April 01, 2009, 07:02:44 am »

The number on the movement (the clockwork bit) is the serial number.  The one on the case is a lot less useful as the case and the movement can be sold separately and even by made by radically different manufacturers.

Z.
Not quite so with Howards, Howard used a non-standard movement  sizing method before 1902, and only Howard case's will fit Howard movements. Similarly after 1902, when production was transferred to Keystone, Howard watches were always sold with their own cases, you never saw an uncased Howard for sale.. In fact, Howard advertisements of the day quoted "Howard movements and cases are not sold separately".
  If you see a late model Howard (Keystone) in a non Howard (Keystone) case, then the collector value of the watch has been pretty much destroyed.

Cheers
Harold

Thank you for the new information.  I would call it a correction, but it's always pleasant learning from you.  Smiley

Z.
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HAC
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« Reply #1365 on: April 01, 2009, 04:46:59 pm »

It wasn't meant as a slam, but it took me a while to find out about Howard casing and their "unique" sizes, and their policy of not selling cases/movements separately. Figured it was a useful bit of knowledge to pass along..

Cheers
Harold
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Zwack
Zeppelin Admiral
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And introducing the wonderful Irish (Mrs Z).


« Reply #1366 on: April 01, 2009, 04:56:13 pm »

And indeed it wasn't taken as a slam...

Seriously, I always find you to be a font of useful knowledge and, imparted in a very polite, friendly and helpful manner.

Thank you again.

Z.
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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1367 on: April 01, 2009, 05:01:01 pm »

Congratulate me, I just destroyed my first pocket watch!  Cry

Fortunately it wasn't an expensive one; a Bristol from Ingrahm, missing the back and crystal (it was still running, though). It was a full-plate, so I unscrewed it to take a peek at the workings -- that's when I learned that there were things attached to the plate, like the mainspring. Sigh. Anywho, the plate says 'The E Ingrahm Company Bristol Conn USA'. The only numbers were '1240' and '67'.

Valuable lesson learned. Still sad.

Korina
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'Arthur, you have no historical perspective. Science in those days worked in broad strokes. They got right to the point. Nowadays, it's all just molecule, molecule, molecule. Nothing ever happens big.' ~The Tick
garingling
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Smile, let them think you're up to something.


« Reply #1368 on: April 01, 2009, 05:47:18 pm »

Congratulate me, I just destroyed my first pocket watch!  Cry

Fortunately it wasn't an expensive one; a Bristol from Ingrahm, missing the back and crystal (it was still running, though). It was a full-plate, so I unscrewed it to take a peek at the workings -- that's when I learned that there were things attached to the plate, like the mainspring. Sigh. Anywho, the plate says 'The E Ingrahm Company Bristol Conn USA'. The only numbers were '1240' and '67'.

Valuable lesson learned. Still sad.

Korina
I'm sorry for your loss.
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HAC
Steam Theologian
Zeppelin Overlord
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Canada Canada


HAC_N800
« Reply #1369 on: April 01, 2009, 05:54:46 pm »

Congratulate me, I just destroyed my first pocket watch!  Cry

Fortunately it wasn't an expensive one; a Bristol from Ingrahm, missing the back and crystal (it was still running, though). It was a full-plate, so I unscrewed it to take a peek at the workings -- that's when I learned that there were things attached to the plate, like the mainspring. Sigh. Anywho, the plate says 'The E Ingrahm Company Bristol Conn USA'. The only numbers were '1240' and '67'.

Valuable lesson learned. Still sad.

Korina
I'm sorry for your loss.

Indeed, that's too bad..
 For what its worth, its really not your fault. Those old 'dollar watches" were built with being disposeable in mind, and theye were not consdiered repairable, hence the large number of "shortcuts" taken in manufacturing, such as using the top plate in that way..

Cheers
Harold
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K. D. R. Tempus
Snr. Officer
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United States United States


What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1370 on: April 02, 2009, 05:29:29 pm »

Thanks for your condolences. Fortunately it was only $5, and now I have some steamy brass gears!  Wink

As for the Westclox, I've had no luck getting that stem out. After much searching on that Westclox forum (thanks again, Harold), I found the proper instructions, but was still unable to disassemble the wretched thing. I just wanna clean it!! (sigh)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:39:39 pm by K. D. R. Tempus » Logged
rogue_designer
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United States United States


clockwork gypsy


« Reply #1371 on: April 09, 2009, 01:50:06 pm »

Just received a 1909 17 Jewel, lever set size 18 Elgin, full plate. It had fuzzy pics, and a sparse epay description, so it was a bit of a gamble. Needs a cleaning, but runs.

The only thing that it needs (as far as I can tell) is a replacement setting lever - this one has been snapped off, flush at the edge of the movement. The piece still in there appears to still move - have not been able to test function. Do any of you (Harold?) know if that's reasonably easy to source?
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes. But deserve a nice glass of absinthe. I have some Montemarte in the cabinet, if you wish.)
HAC
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1372 on: April 09, 2009, 03:57:29 pm »

You could try Tom Mister..He usually has quite the selection of parts and such..

http://www.dashto.com/newlists/selectedamericanmaterial.htm

Cheers
Harold
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rogue_designer
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clockwork gypsy


« Reply #1373 on: April 09, 2009, 06:33:37 pm »

Fantastic! Looks like he might have one or two. I need to confirm which movement I have. But this is very promising. Cheers!

I'm in the running for two other potential gems... I'll let you know later today.
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HAC
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HAC_N800
« Reply #1374 on: April 09, 2009, 06:45:53 pm »

Fantastic! Looks like he might have one or two. I need to confirm which movement I have. But this is very promising. Cheers!

I'm in the running for two other potential gems... I'll let you know later today.
Tom has helped me out with parts many times.. Tell him Harold in Calgary sent you by.. He's a great guy to deal with, and you can't beat his prices..

Cheers and good luck with those otehr two..
Harold
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