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Author Topic: Master Pocketwatch Thread  (Read 424023 times)
SaintSeptum
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« Reply #1325 on: March 02, 2009, 11:47:26 pm »

Thanks... The main thing is that no-one got hurt, and the car was undamaged, which is why I suspect the trunk latch didn't catch due to the cold weather.. The one that really broke me up was the 14K gold Railroad Accutron.. That was a hard one to lose..

Blasted mechanical malfunctions.... but you're doing a fine job of seeing the silver lining. Still.... man....

(incidentally... I finally invested in my OWN price guide, so I no longer need to rely on the "post it to BG and see what Harold says" school of gathering watch info/pricing  Wink Not that you give any indication of minding, or that I'm going to stop posting anything I find and seeing what you say, of course...)

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-St. Septum
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HAC
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« Reply #1326 on: March 02, 2009, 11:56:00 pm »

Did you get the Engle/Gilbert/Shugart guide? Lots of good info there.  Their prices can be a bit off, when you allow for the vagaries of collectability, but usually they are pretty good. I tend to use their "middle" price with a +/- 10-15% as a range..

Would still be interested to see what you find in terms of watches, and I'm always glad to try and answer any questions.. (and no, price info was never a bother to provied..)

Cheers
Harold
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SaintSeptum
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« Reply #1327 on: March 03, 2009, 02:30:24 am »

Did you get the Engle/Gilbert/Shugart guide? Lots of good info there. 

Seems to be :-) I was kind of expecting a lot of tight columns of figures and such, but instead it's full of all these wonderful illustrations and info on various escapements and such... I'm enjoying it :-)

Quote
Would still be interested to see what you find in terms of watches, and I'm always glad to try and answer any questions.. (and no, price info was never a bother to provied..)

Oh absolutely... I always love seeing what others find, far be it from me to hold out Smiley Also far be it from me to assume I don't need additional info from someone who's been at it longer.... your contributions are always appreciated of course. You've never seemed to mind sharing in the least and your enthusiasm is infectious.  Grin

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chaz360
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« Reply #1328 on: March 08, 2009, 05:05:28 am »

Purchased the exact same watch (Ingraham Biltmore Radium w/ original warranty card - year 1950) on eBay a week ago, just arrived yesterday. To my surprise, the radium on the hands and dial face was STILL GLOWING although unlike any glow I had seen before...more like a FLICKERING RADIOACTIVE GASEOUS EMINANCE!!! Shocked I kid you not, the watch almost appeared to be posessed with this eerie wavering glow! Slightly intrigued at this point, I busted my old Civil Defense geiger counter out of storage and discovered that, at point blank, the watch was emitting approximately 0.06 milli Sieverts per hour (mSv/hr) of ionizing radiation. In layman's terms, if I, a dapper young gent, were to carry this watch in my front pocket for an hour, I would be delivering the equivalent of THREE CHEST X-RAYS to my gonads!!! Needless to say, the watch is currenlty stored in a plastic bag within a locked container in the FAR back corner of my desk drawer!     
 
 
Heads up btw... if you open up the case. The paint is even more dangerous now than when fresh, since it has often lost its integrity and formed flakes which can be breathed into the lungs. Nobody wants radioactive particles stuck in the lungs.



Oh, THAT was that odd smell/taste.  Roll Eyes I did open the case, but wore a papermask as I figured the "Radium" on the inside meant something bad.....  I'd read a little about the radium girls of the past and well, radium is a bad thing, so I figured better safer than sorry.  It seems like a pretty cheap watch - it was only $20 or so at the local antique shop.  I thought it would be an interesting conversation piece if nothing else... I did manage to get some photos:


Front - Don't worry, I wore a paper mask and closed the lid very quickly.


Back - Harold - is that what a "full plate" means?


Sorry about the crazy perspective - lights wouldn't cooperate today.  This is just to show the inscription.


This is the Watch I was referring to.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 12:05:58 pm by chaz360 » Logged
Zwack
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And introducing the wonderful Irish (Mrs Z).


« Reply #1329 on: March 08, 2009, 07:48:27 am »

Well, I've just bought (another) Elgin.

Serial Number 34132905 made in 1933, grade 315, 15 jewels, size 12s.

Sorry about the quality of the photo of the movement...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's not running at the moment but it looks good.  I'll take it to someone local who has a good reputation and see what he can do.  There is a scratch in the crystal and a couple of small marks on the face. 

Z.
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SaintSeptum
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« Reply #1330 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:54 am »

Purchased the exact same watch (Ingraham Biltmore Radium w/ original warranty card - year 1950) on eBay a week ago, just arrived yesterday. To my surprise, the radium on the hands and dial face was STILL GLOWING although unlike any glow I had seen before...more like a FLICKERING RADIOACTIVE GASEOUS EMINANCE!!!

I ran across an Ingersoll Radium at an antique store today. I very nearly bought it with this very post in mind.

Then ... Although the numerals weren't glowing anymore, I sort of came to recognize that buying something on the basis of it being radioactive (and, to be fair, a relic of a time when radium was seen as a miracle element and not a symbol of flesh-twisting death) wasn't the wisest choice.

Still, I've been telling my friends about your discovery since I first read it
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garingling
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« Reply #1331 on: March 15, 2009, 06:53:34 pm »

I'm so excited, yesterday we found a antique watch dealer /repair in one of our local haunts. I ended up with what I think is a very nice womens pocket? watch it's called a Little Daisy and is sterling silver. I will put up some pics in a while. The best part is my husband took the pocket watch that I inherited from my Dad (it was his Dad's) for a bit of repair. I had no idea what I had, I knew it was a nice watch but now I know more. It's a Howard from 1904 and only 1500 were made. The watch man said it was worth around $600 dollars and was only dissapointed that is was 17 jewels instead of 20 jewels but regardless I have a very nice watch. 
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« Reply #1332 on: March 15, 2009, 06:59:52 pm »

I'm so excited, yesterday we found a antique watch dealer /repair in one of our local haunts. I ended up with what I think is a very nice womens pocket? watch it's called a Little Daisy and is sterling silver. I will put up some pics in a while. The best part is my husband took the pocket watch that I inherited from my Dad (it was his Dad's) for a bit of repair. I had no idea what I had, I knew it was a nice watch but now I know more. It's a Howard from 1904 and only 1500 were made. The watch man said it was worth around $600 dollars and was only dissapointed that is was 17 jewels instead of 20 jewels but regardless I have a very nice watch. 
Howard's are excellent watches. If you can provied the serial number, I'll look through my records and see if I can find some info..

Cheers
Harold
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garingling
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Smile, let them think you're up to something.


« Reply #1333 on: March 15, 2009, 07:33:15 pm »

I'm so excited, yesterday we found a antique watch dealer /repair in one of our local haunts. I ended up with what I think is a very nice womens pocket? watch it's called a Little Daisy and is sterling silver. I will put up some pics in a while. The best part is my husband took the pocket watch that I inherited from my Dad (it was his Dad's) for a bit of repair. I had no idea what I had, I knew it was a nice watch but now I know more. It's a Howard from 1904 and only 1500 were made. The watch man said it was worth around $600 dollars and was only dissapointed that is was 17 jewels instead of 20 jewels but regardless I have a very nice watch. 
Howard's are excellent watches. If you can provied the serial number, I'll look through my records and see if I can find some info..

Cheers
Harold

Thank you Hac I will as soon as I get it back I left it for a good cleaning and a new crystal.
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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1334 on: March 23, 2009, 10:47:29 pm »

Now, don't laugh, but I picked these up at an 'antique' store for 50 cents each, so of course they don't work. Still...





Okay, laugh.  Wink

Oh -- you can't tell, but the watch on the left is a Timex 'self-wind'. Can't get the back off.

Edited for update: I got the back off the Timex and it actually looks okay, if you don't mind the missing second hand and that it won't stem wind. I shook it for a minute or so and set the time; we'll see what happens. Speaking of missing second hands, the high-end Westclox seems to have had both the back and the front bezel glued on at some point -- ask me how I know. It tries to run, but it's dirty inside, and I'm leaning more and more towards parting the danged thing. Any ideas or suggestions? And any guesses as to the age of the pocket watch?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 02:43:36 am by K. D. R. Tempus » Logged

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« Reply #1335 on: March 25, 2009, 02:03:58 pm »

Nice finds, good to tinker around with Smiley

The Westclox looks to be ~1940's (I am impressed it has a date function!)

Depending on what you want them for, it might be a fun exercise to try and clean out the Westclox (with the appropriate advice from our resident experts, or course), and try and get it ticking again Smiley
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Eisenfaust
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« Reply #1336 on: March 26, 2009, 01:02:21 am »

Well, it took me some time looking, but I was finally able to get one of the watches that I have wanted for a reasonable price:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Serial number 615878, Year 1879, 11 jewels, size 18s.  It keeps excellent time, a little rough on the wind and set (I plan on taking it in to get cleaned and oiled).  The case is a hefty 4 oz Coin Silver. 
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« Reply #1337 on: March 26, 2009, 01:24:54 am »

Think this might be the right spot, smack me if I'm wrong.
Pulled my poor little broken Westclox apart (never knew how much grease and grime could be in such a little thing) and am trying to get all the pieces so I can look at them individually. Anyhows, I've gotten pretty much everything off, except for the actual face from the metal plate and the dial hands.I've tried just pulling and that doesn't work Angry Everything else just had to be unscrewed or pulled or jiggled off. Could anyone help me? We've got quite a toolshed but I wouldn' know which to use. I don't want to break any of the pieces.

Here's what's left:


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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HAC
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« Reply #1338 on: March 26, 2009, 01:49:26 am »

The hands can be removed with tweezer, they should be a simple friction fit on the cannon pinion. As for the centre wheel, and cannon pinion itself, I'm not sure, I think that they were a very tight press fit, but I'm not sure, nor can I find a diagram.
Your dial may have been fixed with tabs, if so carefull bend them out. Hands shoudl be removed first.  You could try the same technioque as is suggested for Westclox alarm clocks..

1. Remove the hands (they just pry off). Careful not to scar the dial.
2. Remove the dial pan. Two tin tabs pokes thru the front plate and bent over. Pry the ends up with a small screwdriver.
3. Buy a bottle of SIMPLE GREEN houshold cleaner, and a quart of denatured alcohol (shellac thinner) at the paint store.
4. Squirt the movement all over, and in between the plates, with Simple Green. Let it sit for 5 minutes.
5. Wash it thoroughly with hot water from the tap.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5.
7. Pour the alcohol into a pan or bowl and swish the movement around in it. Alcohol drives off the water. Do this a couple of times. Make sure that the mainspring and alarm spring have been thoroughly "de-watered" as they are susceptible to rust.
8. Dry it thoroughly with a hair dryer.

These are very simple "dollar watches' they were designed to run in almost any condition. About the only part that was properly lubed (greased) was the mainspring..

Sorry I can;t be more help, but I've not had the pleasure of working on a Westclox like that..

Cheers
Harold

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Silkstone
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« Reply #1339 on: March 26, 2009, 02:37:13 am »

I managed to find the tabs already - they were a booger to get out.
Thanks for the handy dandy info, I end up trying to just pry the hands off and ended up snapping the axel that seemed to be holding everything on. Ah, well, it works jut as fine - fine skill and accidental brutality.
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Silkstone
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« Reply #1340 on: March 26, 2009, 03:59:21 am »

Terribly sorry for the double-postages ness, but I've had success cleaning the pieces as suggested.
But please be careful when blowdrying - although it seems like a good idea to lay all the pieces out and aim the dryer at them, there's a good chance that they'll get blow away into the toilet  Lips sealed Either dry them one by one in hand or be prepared to disinfect them x)

I really like that the case could be re-clsoed so I put most of the parts back in just loose. Yays.

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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1341 on: March 26, 2009, 05:22:34 pm »

But please be careful when blowdrying - although it seems like a good idea to lay all the pieces out and aim the dryer at them, there's a good chance that they'll get blow away into the toilet   Either dry them one by one in hand or be prepared to disinfect them x)

Thanks -- I nearly spewed mocha all over myself and the keyboard.

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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1342 on: March 26, 2009, 05:28:26 pm »

Harold, you are a horological god.  Kiss Just thought you should know.

Looking at my Westclox, I can't for the life of me figure out how to remove the stem without brute force and a pair of pliers.

It's merrily ticking away on my desk, but only when it's on its back, so a good cleaning and some new glue (!) for the front bezel should do the trick.

Korina
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HAC
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« Reply #1343 on: March 26, 2009, 05:50:25 pm »

Pocket watch stems are held in by a threaded sleeve in the case stem..Generally to remove a pocket watch movement, pull the stem out to the setting position, and (after removing any case screws or clamps) you can usually silpmy swing the movement out. Pocket watch stems are generally not held in the same way as wristwatch stems, but are part of the case..

Cheers
Harold
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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1344 on: March 26, 2009, 07:33:03 pm »

Bugger. The stem doesn't seem to want to disengage. I'll keep fiddling with it.
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Silkstone
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« Reply #1345 on: March 27, 2009, 01:48:51 am »

"Thanks -- I nearly spewed mocha all over myself and the keyboard."
Terribly sorry about that. Although I'm sure your keyboard might've enjoyed it.

"Looking at my Westclox, I can't for the life of me figure out how to remove the stem without brute force and a pair of pliers."
Lawl just snapped mine, and all it damaged was the axel. I don't think there's really a way - it seems to be riveted in place or something. Good luck, hopefully you'll find a way, but careful not to bend the hands  Lips sealed
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HAC
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« Reply #1346 on: March 27, 2009, 01:53:44 am »

Bugger. The stem doesn't seem to want to disengage. I'll keep fiddling with it.

If you have a really clar pic of the stem area of the movement, I can see if there is a release screw or pin..
The real problem is that dollar watches were not designed to be repaored, but replaced, and as such, there may be a lot of shortcuts taken in the design, which included a LOT of tight press fit parts..


Cheers
Harold
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K. D. R. Tempus
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What could possibly go wrong?


« Reply #1347 on: March 27, 2009, 04:10:14 pm »

The real problem is that dollar watches were not designed to be repaored, but replaced, and as such, there may be a lot of shortcuts taken in the design, which included a LOT of tight press fit parts.

You're telling me. I noticed a distinct lack of  screws in this movement. I'll add a couple of pix to this post as soon as I can get them to Flickr.

Thanks Harold,

Korina

EDIT: These were the best I could get.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 04:20:31 pm by K. D. R. Tempus » Logged
HAC
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« Reply #1348 on: March 27, 2009, 04:44:44 pm »

Well, I have to admit, I'm stymied. BUT!  I did find a westclox watch forum.. Perhaps someone there will know.
Problem is I've never had one of these to play with, all my pocket watch experience is with traditional movements.

I'll do some digging here as well,

http://www.vintagewestclox.com/forum/


Cheers
Harold
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 04:46:17 pm by HAC » Logged
nathe
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« Reply #1349 on: March 30, 2009, 09:15:18 am »

well, i just picked up my first pocketwatch. its a cheap chinese movement i picked up from ebay, but it looks good Smiley.

we'll see how accurate or reliable it is after a few days. just one question, how do you know when its ovewound?
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