Requesting help designing an airship.

[Trent Faulkner]

I am following what you're saying, but I don't know enough about this sort of thing to contribute any ideas. My brother is the engineer, not I. In fact, it might be worth my while to ask his opinion the next time that I see him.

Of course, the main character and narrator of these stories won't know anything about how an airship works, so while some details might come up and I'll surely have them prepared just in case, I have the feeling that I'll be relying on his ignorance to the subject matter as an all-purpose cop out plot device.

[akumabito]

...is the actual construction of the skyvessel important to the story? Does the reader need to know the exact workings of the airship? Some things can be left completely unexplained.. (*remembers the flimsy looking engine aboard the Firefly*)

[Danbury Shakes]

You can't get energy for free though - using wind turbines to gather engery from forward motion will make the craft go slower as some of the force pushing the craft forwards will be used, via air resistance, to turn the turbines.
The other thing you can look at is other types of armour- who sais it has to be steel?
-Matt

You've got a point there - though I suppose you'd have to number-crunch it to see if the turbine-generators would be worth it. And yeah - aluminium would be lighter, or even titanium (although the cost would be massive), or even a polycarbon (though that does take away from the whole steam aesthetic).

If there's a mad scientist involved then you could try a lab grown organic armour, beetle shell/scales.

Strangely, I happened to stumbleon a web page describing the Winans family Cigar Ships, which look interesting

http://home.att.net/~karen.crisafulli/CigarBoats.html



There's also a bit bout them on this website, slong with some interesting steam powered contraptions.
http://www.steamtraction.com/archive/5520/

[Prof_Auerbach]

...is the actual construction of the skyvessel important to the story? Does the reader need to know the exact workings of the airship? Some things can be left completely unexplained.. (*remembers the flimsy looking engine aboard the Firefly*)

I agree with this. Since the project isn't a visual work, nobody's going to take a tape measure to your description and note how the crew quarters are too large to fit inside the hull.
The layout of the craft is the easiest part. At the minimum, every craft has a bridge, wheelhouse, or cockpit.  It’ll have an engine room, or a place for engines, and fuel storage. It will have crew accommodations, such as quarters, a galley, food storage, a loo or two (or heads, in the nautical parlez). If you’ve ever seen the interior of a submarine, crew quarters are little more than a closet large enough to fit two bunks and two lockers. It might have some cargo storage or other functio

I think that the character and feeling of the craft is far more important in a storytelling environment than the specific layout of where the crew quarters are relative to the loo. Like a human character, the ship should have a history and some depth, like a fatal weakness, as well as a personality. Is it a cranky, creaky old man? Is it bright and polished like a newborn? Is it a stalwart, tried and true friend? Or is it malevolent, waiting for someone to climb down a ladder to let a rung crack, sending them to a broken neck below?

If your main character walks into the engine room, is he going to describe how many feet it is from the boiler to the propeller drive shafts, or is he going to be struck by the energy of the environment, the sweltering heat of the boilers, the smell of oil thick in the air?

Of course, you’ll have to maintain consistency. It won’t do to have the door at the end of the hall open up to the engine room in one chapter, and open up to the galley in another…but the beauty of modern word processing software is that you can always go back and fix any minor mistakes.

[Trent Faulkner]

...is the actual construction of the skyvessel important to the story? Does the reader need to know the exact workings of the airship? Some things can be left completely unexplained.. (*remembers the flimsy looking engine aboard the Firefly*)

Heh... I've been saying pretty much this since the beginning. This thread has just snowballed and I'm only realizing now how far off track I've gotten. My main concern was the engine room, since I didn't know how to describe a steam engine or what they even look like. By now, I don't imagine that I should have any trouble describing the engine from the point of view of a character who doesn't know how it works and doesn't need to know.

Auerbach, you've actually saved me quite a bit of grief. I've been thinking of the ship only in terms of design, as a piece of machinery and a simple living area. I didn't even consider what type of personality it would have, and if I had neglected to include those details, I really would have regretted it later. Thank you for reminding me.

[jringling]

I'm doing a bad thing by jumping in mid thread without reading all of the previous posts...

The boiler room / engine room should be hot, dark, smokey, and dangerous. Be sure your "uneducated" character shows alittle fear of coal fire and spinning flywheels...

[von Corax]

My main concern was the engine room, since I didn't know how to describe a steam engine or what they even look like. By now, I don't imagine that I should have any trouble describing the engine from the point of view of a character who doesn't know how it works and doesn't need to know.

If you can wait until Summer (and depending on what part of the country you're in) you could do far worse than to make a visit to a steam show and see some engines actually running first-hand. They're quite hypnotic to watch, and it's far easier to understand how their operators can come to attribute "personalities" to them.

[akumabito]

Also acquire a copy of "Das Boot", preferably the uncut version (= nearly 5 hour of brilliant cinematography). It'll really help you understand all sorts of things that might be relevant to your story - layout of vessels with extremely limited space. Atmosphere on board, ranging from intense boredom to incredible stress, as well as group dynamics and human interaction under such circumstances.

Life aboard an airship would be fairly similar to that aboard a submarine, I would think.. space is limited, you're with the same people pretty mcuh 24/7 and you can't exactly just go for a walk whenever you damn well please

[Prof_Auerbach]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but I'll chime in that you should peruse "how to draw steampunk machines" for a little primer on the basic components of non-turbine based steam engines.

http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/diy_steampunk/

[Matthias Gladstone]

Also acquire a copy of "Das Boot", preferably the uncut version (= nearly 5 hour of brilliant cinematography). It'll really help you understand all sorts of things that might be relevant to your story - layout of vessels with extremely limited space. Atmosphere on board, ranging from intense boredom to incredible stress, as well as group dynamics and human interaction under such circumstances.

Life aboard an airship would be fairly similar to that aboard a submarine, I would think.. space is limited, you're with the same people pretty mcuh 24/7 and you can't exactly just go for a walk whenever you damn well please

Not quite - although there isn't make space, your not as nearly shut in and the engineering isn't nearly so "heavy". Larger airships such as the Hindenburg and R-100 had their accomodation inside the envelope, and gave the general appearence of an ocean liner, complete with staircases. Cabins were small though. PM the HAC; I think he has many pics of the insides of the giants.
In fact, this site is great for airship pics:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/interior/Ship%2520Plans/R100/R100cutawaydraw.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/interior/R100Interior.htm&usg=__SZn4jR970MtxmLA_WrJboxQtiD4=&h=1054&w=750&sz=140&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=Tv2UOzS6-7MUzM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dr-100%2Binterior%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
-Matt

[akumabito]

Sure, but the Hindenburg was designed to carry passengers. This fictitious airship is meant to carry goods. To maximize load capacity, all non-essential items should be downsized as much as possible.

[Matthias Gladstone]

My mistake, must have misread the description.
-Matt

[Arkwright]

Hi

I have looked at the drawings offered and rather than add another I thought I would have a go at a word picture. This is a literary endevour after all.

Back in the day when I was umpire for a large and long running Space 1889 game, I did a lot of tinkering with airships and a lot of research. So taking your pirate galleon idea and instead of hanging it under a ballon, I have stretched the idea so the rigid balloon is now part of the ships hull. I hope the description makes sense:

"The dirigible was a massive structure. From below it looked like the bottom of old galleon; a heavy looking keel (that I later learned was quite hollow) from which ribs stretched upwards. Between the ribs were the layers of tarred cotton and canvas that protected the sides.

The impression of a galleon at sea continued as you worked your way through the decks. The lowest deck contained the most bulky items, cargo, fuel and the mysteries of the engine room. Immediately above was the buoyancy deck where row upon row of yellowish, spherical gas bags held the precious mono-hydrogen that would keep our ship aloft. Here you would hear the creaking of timbers and ropes under tension as the hull constantly flexed and shifted. The only way to the upper decks from here were the ratlines that added to the nautical feeling. Deck hands were constantly scurrying up or sliding down these as they went about their intricate tasks; checking gas valves, loosing ballast, tensioning the cables.

If you climbed the ratlines at the bow, you found yourself on a forward pulpit like deck, used by passengers as an amusing exercise and by the deck hands as a look out. In times of crisis it was also said to be the location of one of the ship’s maxim guns. Looking back from the pulpit you could see the upper side of the buoyancy deck sloping away to the sides like a barn roof. At the stern rose the compass deck, from where the rudder fin was controlled, and the flying bridge. At the centre of the bridge were two pedestals, side by side. The port side pedestal held the ships wheel and on the starboard side the Trimsman’s levers.

As our journey progressed, I learned a little more about our wonderful vessel. I was invited by one of the petty officers to visit the flying deck. It was a cold and windy experience, and not a little frightening, but so exciting. On the flying deck the maxim guns were always at the ready and deckhands with long telescopes constantly scanned the skies around us. The captain was stood just before the wheel and Trimsman’s positions shouting course corrections over his shoulder. It was then that I learned a little about the Trimsmen’s art, for it seems that without the quiet and unassuming officers, our journey would have been of short duration. It seems that a dirigible is an unstable beast and is for ever in need of balancing. This the Trimsman achieves by pulling at his array of levers. These are in turn connected by wires to a series of moving ballast weights held inside the massive keel that can be adjusted so finely that the ship remains perfectly level.

The only solidly build ladder runs from the flying deck down the stern of the vessel to the engine room. It is a pretty hairy descent with the rush of air, the constant low thrum of the air screws to either side and the booming of the rudder like a taut sail beating from tack to tack. When you finally (and with some relief) reach the engine room, you are plunged into near darkness. I had expected a vision from the inferno, but it seems such uncontrolled fire would be dangerous. Instead there is a low red glow from the glass ports in the furnace. This seems to (in some way I cannot fathom) make steam very quickly from cold water pumped through narrow pipes. The steam drives a series of pistons – like the ones used in steam launches – which drive a pair of toothed wheels. From these wheels run endless chains, one to the port and one to the starboard sides, out through the sides of the hull and up to the airscrews. The engineer told me with some pride that the engine could produce a cruising speed of twenty five knots and at need much more. From the engine room I made my way back to my bunk by the more pedestrian route through the buoyancy deck."

I hope this entertains, if not actually informs.

TTFN

Arkwright

[bizarre_chicken]

Hi

I have looked at the drawings offered and rather than add another I thought I would have a go at a word picture. This is a literary endevour after all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Back in the day when I was umpire for a large and long running Space 1889 game, I did a lot of tinkering with airships and a lot of research. So taking your pirate galleon idea and instead of hanging it under a ballon, I have stretched the idea so the rigid balloon is now part of the ships hull. I hope the description makes sense:

"The dirigible was a massive structure. From below it looked like the bottom of old galleon; a heavy looking keel (that I later learned was quite hollow) from which ribs stretched upwards. Between the ribs were the layers of tarred cotton and canvas that protected the sides.

The impression of a galleon at sea continued as you worked your way through the decks. The lowest deck contained the most bulky items, cargo, fuel and the mysteries of the engine room. Immediately above was the buoyancy deck where row upon row of yellowish, spherical gas bags held the precious mono-hydrogen that would keep our ship aloft. Here you would hear the creaking of timbers and ropes under tension as the hull constantly flexed and shifted. The only way to the upper decks from here were the ratlines that added to the nautical feeling. Deck hands were constantly scurrying up or sliding down these as they went about their intricate tasks; checking gas valves, loosing ballast, tensioning the cables.

If you climbed the ratlines at the bow, you found yourself on a forward pulpit like deck, used by passengers as an amusing exercise and by the deck hands as a look out. In times of crisis it was also said to be the location of one of the ship’s maxim guns. Looking back from the pulpit you could see the upper side of the buoyancy deck sloping away to the sides like a barn roof. At the stern rose the compass deck, from where the rudder fin was controlled, and the flying bridge. At the centre of the bridge were two pedestals, side by side. The port side pedestal held the ships wheel and on the starboard side the Trimsman’s levers.

As our journey progressed, I learned a little more about our wonderful vessel. I was invited by one of the petty officers to visit the flying deck. It was a cold and windy experience, and not a little frightening, but so exciting. On the flying deck the maxim guns were always at the ready and deckhands with long telescopes constantly scanned the skies around us. The captain was stood just before the wheel and Trimsman’s positions shouting course corrections over his shoulder. It was then that I learned a little about the Trimsmen’s art, for it seems that without the quiet and unassuming officers, our journey would have been of short duration. It seems that a dirigible is an unstable beast and is for ever in need of balancing. This the Trimsman achieves by pulling at his array of levers. These are in turn connected by wires to a series of moving ballast weights held inside the massive keel that can be adjusted so finely that the ship remains perfectly level.

The only solidly build ladder runs from the flying deck down the stern of the vessel to the engine room. It is a pretty hairy descent with the rush of air, the constant low thrum of the air screws to either side and the booming of the rudder like a taut sail beating from tack to tack. When you finally (and with some relief) reach the engine room, you are plunged into near darkness. I had expected a vision from the inferno, but it seems such uncontrolled fire would be dangerous. Instead there is a low red glow from the glass ports in the furnace. This seems to (in some way I cannot fathom) make steam very quickly from cold water pumped through narrow pipes. The steam drives a series of pistons – like the ones used in steam launches – which drive a pair of toothed wheels. From these wheels run endless chains, one to the port and one to the starboard sides, out through the sides of the hull and up to the airscrews. The engineer told me with some pride that the engine could produce a cruising speed of twenty five knots and at need much more. From the engine room I made my way back to my bunk by the more pedestrian route through the buoyancy deck."

I hope this entertains, if not actually informs.

TTFN

Arkwright

That'd make such a fantastic part of a book.
MOAR.

[Prof_Auerbach]

"The dirigible was a massive structure... by the more pedestrian route through the buoyancy deck."
I hope this entertains, if not actually informs.
TTFN
Arkwright

Indeed, quite entertaining. Jolly well written Sir!

I have to admit, I dislike reading on screen, muchly preferring the printed page...but your short narrative was so enjoyable, it felt scribed in ink.

[Arkwright]

Hi All

Thankyou for the positive feedback. (Inflates chest with pride!)

On a similar note, as it were; In airship terms, what constitutes a squadron? I mean are we thinking in battleship tactics here, 3 to 5 in line astern? Or are we thinking of airships attacking like Submarine boats on different vectors?

Of course, only modern airships with aetheric communication and mechanical difference engines would be able to coordinate such complex tactics.

Now in Arkwright Senior's day: You'd send your messages with flags, then you'd tap the air speed dial to make sure it hadn't frozen, take a quick look at the clouds to gauge the wind drift, scribble a few quick calculations on your wrist slate, and release half a dozen torpedoes in the hope that one would get close to the target.

You know, I think I've still got that wrist slate somewhere...

TTFN

Arkwright

[akumabito]

Of course, only modern airships with aetheric communication and mechanical difference engines would be able to coordinate such complex tactics.

What makes you think that? The world's navies have been able to do just that for many centuries.

[bizarre_chicken]

Of course, only modern airships with aetheric communication and mechanical difference engines would be able to coordinate such complex tactics.

What makes you think that? The world's navies have been able to do just that for many centuries.

Look at the spanish armada - a fleet of hundreds of ships, all working in concert.

[Arkwright]

Gentlemen,

I fear you may have misunderstood my comment, to operate in formation, even up to fleet level is achievable with flag signals (as in Arkwright seniors day) but such signals require a line of sight between airships. This is fine for fleet engagements and tours de force etc...

However, disruption by bad weather (always a hazard!) and use of ambush style tactics, navigating out of sight behind hills, mountains and cloud banks would be much harder to coordinate. To plan such an operation by timing alone risks early arrival and discovery or late arrival of one or more attacking groups. In either case the full devastating effect of the attack would be lost.

It still comes back to the question on the best use of airship squadrons, and therefore the optimum number of vessels per squadron.

There is, I suppose, always the option of using a sufficiently powerful (in any characteristic) airship as a solitary raider. But personally I not particularly in favour of such tactics, they smack little too much of piracy.

Your humble servant,

Arkwright

[bizarre_chicken]

Gentlemen,

I fear you may have misunderstood my comment, to operate in formation, even up to fleet level is achievable with flag signals (as in Arkwright seniors day) but such signals require a line of sight between airships. This is fine for fleet engagements and tours de force etc...

However, disruption by bad weather (always a hazard!) and use of ambush style tactics, navigating out of sight behind hills, mountains and cloud banks would be much harder to coordinate. To plan such an operation by timing alone risks early arrival and discovery or late arrival of one or more attacking groups. In either case the full devastating effect of the attack would be lost.

It still comes back to the question on the best use of airship squadrons, and therefore the optimum number of vessels per squadron.

There is, I suppose, always the option of using a sufficiently powerful (in any characteristic) airship as a solitary raider. But personally I not particularly in favour of such tactics, they smack little too much of piracy.

Your humble servant,

Arkwright

One man's piracy is another man's liberation.

[Khem Caigan]

I see that Mr. Gladstone has already posted
a link to the Airship Heritage Trust, which
has many excellent plans for airships of
various sizes and purposes.

I would also suggest that you take a look at
some floorplans of canal boats, hotel barges
and house barges for more floorplan ideas -
they are more on the domestic  side, rather
than strictly military, freight or passage
oriented.

Here is a link to a site that has a hotel barge
floorplan, for example :

Hotel Barge Colibri
http://tinyurl.com/9ldlzg

And a couple more, with specs :

The Sailing Home

Ship size: length of 45 m, width of 6.53 m
Ship capacity: 13 cabins with maximum 26
passengers
Cabin size: 3.95 x 2.75 m, height of 2.25 m
Cabins contain twin beds (no bunk beds)
that can be placed side by side
http://tinyurl.com/br23my

LE PHENICIEN

Passengers: 18
Crew: 6
Barge Size: 127 ft x 16 ft, 7 in
Cabins: 9
Cabin Size: Approx 107 sq ft
Accommodations: 3 queen cabins;
6 twin or king cabins, all with
private ensuite baths
http://tinyurl.com/bsc7rd

[will]

just i ider for the engine how about steam turbines i have a lot of nolage in steam engings and  engineering any way ask me if u wot to no anythink about steam or diesel.

just fond out about steampunk

[Mina]

Lots of ppl have been giving really good advice, but I have these photos i thought i might throw into the mix

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/starlightcheese/airship012.jpg

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.mustangsalling.dk/workbench/airship.jpg

also keep in mind, steampunk is really a form of sci fi - it's not meant to work in real life. Yes, it would help if the gas bag was at least the size of the ship itself, but when writing and drawing something like this, just keep in mind that its the unreality of it all that attracts people to it in the first place. people like when the impossible is made real, so go and make giant, elaborate, extremely fast airships. they'll love it even more.
and as to the set up of the ship, just put things where it makes sense. no one's gonna go in there an be all critical when they're trying to enjoy a good story.