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Author Topic: The Brass Goggles Occult Society...The Esoteric Order of the Brazen Dawn...  (Read 188872 times)
Khem Caigan
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« Reply #275 on: February 17, 2009, 09:02:55 am »

I could point you to a widely read wiccan text, used in many religious circles that consider it the best referance for those who wish
to practice and acknowledge the ancient ways... yet referances a ancient goddess of death as a goddess of rest and peace.

Respectfully, and with no offense intended, I don't believe that the text that you describe exists.
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"Let us create vessels and sails fashioned for the heavenly Æther, for there
will be plenty of people who do not shrink from the vastness of space."
~ Johannes Kepler, letter to Galileo Galilei, 1609.
groomporter
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« Reply #276 on: February 17, 2009, 02:00:53 pm »

I could point you to a widely read wiccan text, used in many religious circles that consider it the best referance for those who wish
to practice and acknowledge the ancient ways... yet referances a ancient goddess of death as a goddess of rest and peace.

Respectfully, and with no offense intended, I don't believe that the text that you describe exists.

Well the text may exist, but how old is it?
The problem is that most scholars who have studied Wicca these days admit that it is a modern religion that is inspired by pre-Christian religions, but not directly based upon them or not an example of an actual survival of an ancient religion. (Not that this makes Wicca any less valid than any other faith, I'm a deist so they're all equal in my mind)

But we're getting into a religious discussion here which is against the forum policies, so we should probably bring in back to how we can fit occult subjects in to a Steampunk world. Having the truth about fairies or vampire "wrong" rather than based on the normal conceptions is a perfectly valid plot device and can lead to some humorous (not to mention deadly) exchanges.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 02:09:51 pm by groomporter » Logged

If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron.
-Spider Robinson
Khem Caigan
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« Reply #277 on: February 17, 2009, 09:12:06 pm »

But we're getting into a religious discussion here which is against the forum policies, so we should probably bring in back to how we can fit occult subjects in to a Steampunk world. Having the truth about fairies or vampire "wrong" rather than based on the normal conceptions is a perfectly valid plot device and can lead to some humorous (not to mention deadly) exchanges.

Apologies - no more "Fairy Faith" postings.
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Marrock
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« Reply #278 on: February 17, 2009, 09:22:54 pm »

I wondered how long it would be before someone decided to kill what was an interesting discussion.
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #279 on: February 17, 2009, 09:44:25 pm »

These books of yours, Mr. Caigan, I'll have to remember their names if they ever come up, though I
would say that simply being published by a university does not automatically make something truth.

We weren't speaking of "truth", however.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
True. Right you are, I'd say.

I could point you to a widely read wiccan text, used in many religious circles that consider it the best referance for those who wish
to practice and acknowledge the ancient ways... yet referances a ancient goddess of death as a goddess of rest and peace.

Respectfully, and with no offense intended, I don't believe that the text that you describe exists.
But we're getting into a religious discussion here which is against the forum policies, so we should probably bring in back to how we can fit occult subjects in to a Steampunk world.
I think if we tread lightly and continue in the spirit of interest and discussion, there shouldn't be a problem.

As to a goddess of death being synonymous with rest and peace, I don't see how that's such a stretch. Death is so often considered a bad thing, but its inevitable and essential. Rest and death, I think, would be closely related to the mind of someone who worships such things. Also, on the topic of Wiccan's, it's my understanding that there are the God, the Goddess, and everything else is an aspect of such. Thus, the Goddess may be called upon in the form of [Name] for fertillity, yet on another occasion, say, a funeral becalled upon in the aspect of {name} to guide the dead to wherever they're going.

Anyways, back to Faeries and Vampires. These stories we're discussing are relevant. I enjoy your 'Fairy Faith' postings, Mr. Caigan, and don't think they should be stopped because the subject is close to religion, period. To be completely deviod of such a topic would in fact cut out any chance to discuss any supernatural being at all. Vampires and crosses/crucifixes. Fairy folk as gods or angels or demons or just sneaky animals that glow. We just need to be mature about the whole thing.

As mentioned, these are scholarly recordings of stories. What harm could there be, so long as our heads are kept on straight? Though I do have to say, specifically, to Rovingjack that it may be best to keep your specific distastes to some mans christian ideas or practices to yourself, as we've got members of all sorts here and we want to remain civil and keep this discussion open.

I wondered how long it would be before someone decided to kill what was an interesting discussion.
I will not be denied my conversations!  Roll Eyes

We know the basic idea of how to repell a vampire. How would one keep oneself clear of, or appease, a fairy? I know it's usually a case by case depending on the sort, but what do you think/know/have read?
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Well I've worked among the spitters and I've breathed the oily smoke
I've shovelled up the gypsum and it neigh 'on makes you choke
I've stood knee deep cyanide, got sick with a caustic burn
Been working rough, I've seen enough, to make your stomach turn


www.doctorsteel.com
rovingjack
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« Reply #280 on: February 18, 2009, 05:51:31 am »

I could point you to a widely read wiccan text, used in many religious circles that consider it the best referance for those who wish
to practice and acknowledge the ancient ways... yet referances a ancient goddess of death as a goddess of rest and peace.

Respectfully, and with no offense intended, I don't believe that the text that you describe exists.

yes the respect in your calling me a liar is most obvious. Frankly you're belief in the published work of this woman who has taught many in person and millions through her published works and is head of a wide network of wiccan practitioners, is not a requirement for it's existance. As much as my local community want nothing to do with her works due to faulty data in a widely embraced work on how to practice wicca, I find that at the very least it's empowering and a good place to start for some people.

but that is neither here nor there. I did not bring it up to bandy about big names and denegrate the works of other. My point as expressed earlier is about the topic at had. Learning and interacting with the supernatural, and as should be obvious by my posts thus far, I value all sources but I would council anyone to take the data of any source too seriously without thorough research on opposing views and historical perspective form more then one cultural point of view.

The tower of babel example I gave previously is really the meat of my point because as is apparent from your post you seem to see no conflict with being respectful, while accusing myself of fabricating data to suit my points. I on the other hand see the questioning of my honor as anything but respectful especially when thrown onto a public forum.

What is more is the statement was used to demonstrate a point not to be carried into another tangent altogether, one that is destined to become far less cordial than this should we go about publicly flogging a public religious figures works.

To return to the topic at hand yes I do think that there are was to accept the definition of the diety as layed out, but the issue I have with it is that it was poorly researched and it is but one example of such in the works of the author.

Does that make the faith faulty or the practices they use flawed, not as far as I can see. But I would hesitate to recomend that particular referance to somebody without making sure they seek to understand that scholar or expert or not all writings are done by flawed individuals using language that may not fully convey the meanings. That such writings can tell us as much or more about the author then the subject of research, no matter how much we try to be unbiased.

Who is to say that some time from now they will not laugh at our belief that we are three dimensional beings or that the universe started with a big bang. But for us today, many of us accept these thoughts and might write about roman stories of the creation as myth and the big bang as scientific, when in fact it may one day be seen as just one more myth.

So by calling it scientific rather then myth we accept certain practices and ideas and so most scholarly texts of this time will be biased in that sense.

If you want to find a connection between vampires and elves then by all means search for it but also search for the holes in the idea as well.

and if it's to be fictional then have fun with it.

I could come up with a few way that such things might have come to be. Some involve the practice of changlings. Some involve stories like rip van winkle. But they are therories and not to be mistaken for things to know and accuse the fair folk with lest you like the idea of a wrathful fey encounter.
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Khem Caigan
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Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam


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« Reply #281 on: February 18, 2009, 02:45:16 pm »

<Yet another long, aimless, abusive rant; with nary
a shred of evidence adduced for any of the assertions
therein.>


Aha, a Steampunk Troll! Now, what did I do with my
Web 2.0 killfile?
<rummages about in his workshop>
<activates the StupidFilter, amid much whirring and
sparking>
<sighs> That's better, then Smiley

StupidFilter
http://tinyurl.com/yshau3
Logged
groomporter
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« Reply #282 on: February 18, 2009, 02:48:48 pm »

I wondered how long it would be before someone decided to kill what was an interesting discussion.

Well it had the feeling it was about to degenerate into personal attacks...
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #283 on: February 19, 2009, 07:11:58 am »

I don't think saying 'you may be incorrect' amounts to 'you're a dirty liar.'

Anyways, I... didn't actually read much of note there. So, I repeat:

We know the basic idea of how to repell a vampire. How would one keep oneself clear of, or appease, a fairy? I know it's usually a case by case depending on the sort, but what do you think/know/have read?
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groomporter
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« Reply #284 on: February 19, 2009, 01:15:19 pm »

Well, to stay on the good side of brownies and household fey there are the stories about leaving a little cream out for them to drink...

But I suppose we should worry most about dealing with gremlins on our airships.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 01:20:37 pm by groomporter » Logged
Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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« Reply #285 on: February 19, 2009, 08:47:44 pm »

I'm not at all sure what you do about gremlins.
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Maddie
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« Reply #286 on: February 20, 2009, 12:47:14 am »

What sort of gremlins? Those who just steal things can easily return stolen items if you tidy the room and lay out sparkly objects you pretend to need. Suddenly, the sparkly stuff has gone missing, and your desired item has returned. ((No joke, once found a £20 using this technique))
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What a crazy random happen-stance!
groomporter
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« Reply #287 on: February 20, 2009, 12:52:28 am »

Me neither, I just checked on Wikipedia and it claimed "The word "gremlin" originated in oral use amongst Royal Air Force (RAF) aviators' slang in Malta, the Middle East and India, with the earliest recorded printed use being a poem published in the journal Aeroplane, in Malta on April 10, 1929."

and that...
"one authority in folklore states that "some people" derive the name from the Old English word gremian, "to vex". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin

If it's true that it's that new a tradition, there may not be much as far as official protections from them. Maybe it's worth looking for good luck charms and things carried by RAF members as examples
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #288 on: February 20, 2009, 02:59:10 am »

Gremlins are a 'new' phenomenon that came of combustion engines I believe, hence the possible RAF connection. They bugger with machines quite powerfully, which I thnik makes them a very Steampunk applicable creature.
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Khem Caigan
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« Reply #289 on: February 20, 2009, 03:10:41 am »

Gremlins

Elves, goblins, and trolls seem to be timeless
creations of the distant past, but gremlins
were born in the 20th century.

In fact, gremlin is first recorded only in
the 1920s, as a Royal Air Force term for a
low-ranking officer or enlisted man saddled
with oppressive assignments.

Said to have been invented by members of the
Royal Naval Air Service in World War I,
gremlin is used in works written in the 1940s
for "an imaginary gnomelike creature who
causes difficulties in aircraft."

The word seems likely to have been influenced
by goblin, but accounts of its origin are
various and none are certain.

One source calls in Fremlin beer bottles to
explain the word; another, the Irish Gaelic
word gruaimín, "ill-humored little fellow."

Whatever the word's origin, it is certain
that gremlins have taken on a life of their
own.

English Folklore: gremlins

A subspecies of goblin which evolved early
in the 20th century, probably during the
First World War; certainly their existence
was acknowledged (with dismay) by members
of the RAF during the 1920s.

They are reported to be anything from six
inches to two feet in height, greenish or
grey, sometimes with horns or hairy ears,
and wearing a wide variety of colourful
and eccentric clothing.

Their original speciality was causing
otherwise inexplicable malfunctions in
the engines, electrical circuits, and
other operational parts of aircraft,
drinking up petrol, and tampering with
landing strips on airfields.

They have since diversified, and apply
their expertise to virtually any type
of machinery, the more complex the
better; one group has become skilled
in producing misprints.

They often laugh uproariously at the
success of their activities, a trait
which may indicate kinship to Puck
and Robin Goodfellow.

Accounts of the appearance and behaviour
of gremlins circulated orally among British
airmen stationed in Malta, the Middle East,
and India during the 1920s and 1930s; the
first printed record seems to be a poem in
the journal Aeroplane on 10 April 1929.

They were much discussed, both orally and
in print, in the RAF and the Fleet Air Arm
in the Second World War.

Interest in them spread to the civilian
press (e.g. Punch (11 Nov. 1942),
Spectator(1 Jan. 1943), several issues of
N&Q, 1943), and reached America
(New York Times Magazine (11 Apr. 1943),
Time (28 Sept. 1943)).

In recent years, they have become the
subject of cinematic investigation by Joe
Danke which revealed hitherto unknown
aspects of their biology, metabolism, and
personalities (Gremlins, 1984, and
Gremlins II, 1990).

The origin of the word 'gremlin' itself
is obscure.

RAF tradition links it with Fremlin's beer,
though opinions differ as to whether this
is because the first gremlin seen was a
goblin swimming in a tankard of Fremlin's,
or because it appeared to a group of
officers who were drinking Fremlin's and
reading Grimm's Fairy Tales simultaneously.

When speaking or writing about gremlins,
it is essential to present the information
with as much ingenious detail as possible,
and to preserve an attitude of total conviction.

Bibliography

The full bibliography list is available here.

* John W. Hazen in Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary
of Folklore, Mythology and Legend
, ed. Maria
Leach (New York, 1949
* 3rd edn. 1972), 465-6
* Gillian Edwards, Hobgoblin and Sweet Puck
(1974), 209-24
* P. Beale, Concise Dictionary of Slang and
Unconventional English
(1989)

~ from :
gremlin: Definition from Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/dkrkq2

See also :

Brewer's Dictionary of Modern Phrase & Fable
by John Ayto, Ian Crofton, Ebenezer Cobham Brewer
http://tinyurl.com/dlwxfr
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #290 on: February 20, 2009, 03:24:04 am »

Informative.

Any chacne you could allign your text along more standard lines, instead of the single thin column?
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Khem Caigan
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« Reply #291 on: February 20, 2009, 03:58:14 am »

Any chacne you could allign your text along more standard lines, instead of the single thin column?

I am only barely able to access this Forum
by way of my computer, and the way that
it appears to me is pretty clearly not the
way that it appears to others.

I have had some discussion regarding this
before, with Tinkergirl and others.

My sincerest apologies for the inconvenience.
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
Zeppelin Admiral
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #292 on: February 20, 2009, 08:08:24 am »

No worries, just asking. Something similar happened to me on another forum, but for some reason it only affects on topic. Computers.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #293 on: February 21, 2009, 03:58:30 am »

I don't think saying 'you may be incorrect' amounts to 'you're a dirty liar.'

Anyways, I... didn't actually read much of note there. So, I repeat:

We know the basic idea of how to repell a vampire. How would one keep oneself clear of, or appease, a fairy? I know it's usually a case by case depending on the sort, but what do you think/know/have read?

Defending against fairy is usually attributed to iron in general but I have noted that some exceptions seem to come up, namely that some have been teachers of the blacksmiths (not copper smiths but iron working smiths) and the creators of iron objects in some folk stories. I have also wondered on occassion about the regularity of the use of the term Cold iron instead of simple iron in many cases.

That it might have something to with irons conductivity of heat, energy or magic springs to mind.

There is the implication that the mostly freindly house hold entities leave when given clothing (some say it offends them, some suggest it makes them feel that they are equals and no longer need to tend the house).

But most sources tend to agree that the power of a name is the power to command what you want of the fay, but it's a dangerous thing to command. Think of it like the stories of how a genie would grant your wish with a lawyers eye for loopholes and traps for the requestor.

Really I think one of the biggest morals of the stories is treat all entities with respect and hospitality and yet don't expect everybody or everything to be kindness and light. Fay as nature spirits are 'natural' forces, and arsenic and radiation are as natural as rose petals and fluffy clouds.

Gremlins are best killed with blenders and microwaves if the movie is anything to go by, but don't get them wet. seriously I would think that gremlins would be something that come into conflict with things like brownies and other repair and crafting type little folk of a more benevolent type. Perhaps they might know of wards and counters to their occassioned opposition.

as to the above, Show me any disrespect I presented prior to my last post and I will gladly apologise.

If somebody were to be curious about the text in question as a point of personal intrest then I'd be glad to supply the author, her credentials and sources for both her supporters and detractors, in a private PM where it does not amount to public disrespect of a popular religious writer amoung certain circles.

As to the  Liar aspect of it, the statement was that the text which I mention but do not refferance (as that was really just to make a point about works not always being without fault, and for no other reason) is something that they believe does not exist.

So when saying that something doesn't exist after some body speaks of the existance of said work, maybe in the midst of the viral fever of mine I miscalculated the other options available then the individual proclaiming 'Liar'.

Troll indeed. I disagreed with you, and did it in a nonagressive or baiting manner, and in return what is offered but the questioning of my honor... on a point that has nothing to do with the main topic of discussion.

Again show me any disrespect I presented prior to my last post and I will gladly apologise. But outside of that I think I am well done with trying to discuss anything more on the topic.
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Capt. Barley Wilkerson
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This tea is FRIGGIN' ridiculous!


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« Reply #294 on: February 21, 2009, 11:09:32 pm »

i propose that we come up with a set of "agreed upon standards" for the process of defining "sets, and subsets" of natural and/or supernatural creatures, and what constitutes a religious or non-religious affiliation for each... i was reading some earlier posts and couldn't help but notice that some people were incredibly argumentative about certain things...

nobody can please anybody all of the time, but we, as The Order, can come to a compromise on such things as they relate to or apply to discussions and functions of The Order, can't we?
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Khem Caigan
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
United States United States


Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam


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« Reply #295 on: February 22, 2009, 07:41:50 am »

Here are a few of the Brazen Dawn posts
that inspired the response that follows :

. . . with the growth of the spiritualism movement in the Victorian era I would think we can discuss how to fit such occult bits into a steampunk world without discussing religion/dogma.


i sometimes feel as though i am part of a large, irresistible machine... this machine SEEMS to be unstoppable, but that's impossible i think, and i often get a vision of parts failing and flying off, or the machine seizing and tearing up everything around it as explodes to a halt...

it's probably just my subconscious mind making analogies for everyday life, but isn't that a huge part of the occult? in my studies, there are have been only a few MAJOR themes that come up in various practices, and the top two have always been symbolism and visualization...

it would be interesting to see how a Victorian class society would have been impacted by an occult faction... looking at other "societies" in history, there are precedents...

so, anyway, does our little group have a purpose? anything other than pure discussion? will we share techniques or try to discover new ways to practice old ways?


I think the first guideline is to remember that Steampunk is fiction, and while we may discuss the documented history or real world practice of magic and the occult as inspiration, most of this is for the purpose of fitting it into an alternate, steam powered and/or clockwork world.


I was hoping this 'society' would utilize occult ideas and suchlike that are not what is used today...think more hellboy occultism than pier side tarot tents


How about a Babbage engine programmed to run numerically encoded incantations?


With regard to restoring Magic to a Mechanistic
milieu <Steampunk>, I commend the following
post to all interested parties :

Mechanism and Magic are joined at the Root :

" The word 'Magic' is a derivation from a Latin
term Magia [ Greek Mageía, Iranian Persian
form Magu(s) ].

The word is also related to the Greek notions
Mechos, Mechane, the Gothic Mahts, German
Macht; the Indo-European verb stem -Magh
signifies 'to be able, to help'. "

 ~ Dieter Harmening, citing the entries by Kluges
and Mackensen on the subject of Magic in the
Etymologisches Worterbuch der Deutschen
Sprache
.

Which is why at least one meaning of the old term
'Magike Techne' can be Mechanical Technology.


And here are a few links regarding the etymological
connection between Magic and Mechanism :

Online Etymology Dictionary
http://tinyurl.com/bjq5r4

The Origins of English Words
by Joseph Twadell Shipley
http://tinyurl.com/bsvfjk

" The words magic and machine have common
etymological ancestry in the Proto-Indo-European
magh-, meaning "to be able, to have power."

A machine is a thing that can (cf. the Little Engine
That Could), and a magician is one who can
(beyond ordinary limits). "
~ from :
Of Magic and Machine
by Joshua Madara <.PDF>
http://tinyurl.com/d43kkw

Journal For The Academic Study Of Magic 2
edited by Alison Butler, Dave Evans
Indo-European *mag(h)
http://tinyurl.com/dflp8a

3.) " Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic. "
~ Clarke's three laws
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://tinyurl.com/zhcs6

And with regard to the Stoic/Pre-Socratic Physics
that underlies the Astrological Magic of the Golden
Dawn and <presumably> the Brazen Dawn <based
as it is in a worldview of strictly mechanistic
determinism>, see :

The Elements
http://tinyurl.com/asc9an

The Four Elements in the Western Tradition
by V.H.Frater I.C.L.
http://tinyurl.com/pfn2g

BOOK OF THE SEVEN PLANETS
by Raymond LULL
http://tinyurl.com/zopuv

THE SEVEN PLANETS
by Raymond LULL
http://tinyurl.com/es787

The Art of Memory
by Frances Amelia Yates
http://tinyurl.com/d8wtqg

Temperament - Astrology's Forgotten Key
by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/cefo5m

" Some of the Stoics were as strict, or
stricter, determinists than Laplace... for
the Stoics everything comes to pass in the
world according to an unbroken causal
connection, according to a law of fate, in
which not even a god can change something.
(cf. Max  Pohlenz, Die Stoa, Geschichte
einer geistigen Bewegung
, 1948, v. 1, p.
102.)  Manilius' line, fata regunt orbem,
certa stant omnia lege (the fates rule the
world, all things exist by law), may be
regarded as pure Stoicism.
(Manilius, Astronomica, between 9
and 15 A.D.)"
~ from :
Marriage and Divorce of Astronomy and
Astrology:  A History of Astral Prediction from
Antiquity to Newton

by Gordon Fisher
Chapter 1. Some Sources of Astral Beliefs
http://gfisher.org/index.htm

Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos
translated by J.M. Ashmand
[1822]
http://tinyurl.com/8wa54

Hellenistic Astrology
http://tinyurl.com/bwg9ss

1300 Ramon Llull invented the Lullian Circle:
a notional machine for calculating answers
to philosophical questions (in this case,
to do with Christianity) via logical
combinatorics. This idea was taken up by
Leibniz centuries later, and is thus one
of the founding elements in computing and
information science.
~ from :
Timeline of computing 2400 BC–1949
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://tinyurl.com/cm4wmx

Unlocked Books
by Benedek Láng
http://tinyurl.com/djr3zc

Language, Mind and Nature
by Rhodri Lewis
http://tinyurl.com/b6qa6y

Ars Combinatoria
Mystical Systems, Procedural Art,
and the Computer

by Janet Zweig
http://tinyurl.com/aclepa

The brilliant medieval Neoplatonist Raymond
Lull took a different tack in his mnemonic
art, which he claimed would enable the user
to know everything that was going on in the
universe and retain the information.
Lull's art consisted of an abstract and
incredibly complex system of wheels within
wheels.

The rims of these wheels were inscribed with
letters which stood for the nine qualities
of God that Lull had seen in a vision,
qualities which reflected and organized the
sum of all knowledge.

But "Doctor Illuminatus," as Lull was called,
added a fascinating twist:
by shifting the wheels, one could create
endless combinations of concepts.

Lull's art was thus an ancestor of symbolic
logic, and influenced Leibniz's development
of calculus. In Magical Alphabets, Nigel
Pennick points out that Lull's combinatorial
wheels could also be seen as the forerunner
of Charles Babbage's 19th century difference
engine--which used a system of gears to
perform polynomial equations--and "hence
can be considered the occult origin of modern
computers." [4]

We may forgive Pennick as a practicing
geomancer, but the far more sober Yates
makes a similar suggestion when she
describes the highly systematized and
profoundly magical memory-charts in the
De umbris idearum of the Renaissance
genius Giordano Bruno (who ended his
heretical days on a Vatican pyre, a
"martyr to science" who was actually
a flagrant pagan).

Bruno's systems were of "appalling
complexity," combining Lull's interlocking
wheels with a dense iconography of star
demons derived from astrological applications
of the art of memory ("demons," here as
throughout this essay, does not imply evil,
but like the term "daemon," describes
spiritual entities that can range from
gnomes to planetary rulers to archangels).
Like Lull's Art, Bruno's system was meant
to be internalized in the imagination, for
like most hermeticists, Bruno believed that
"the astral forces which govern the outer
world also operate within, and can be
reproduced or captured there to operate a
magico-mechanical memory." Yates saw a
"curiously close" spiritual link between
Bruno's memory system and the "mind
machines" discussed in the 1960s.
~ from :
TECHGNOSIS: MAGIC, MEMORY, AND
THE ANGELS OF INFORMATION

by Erik Davis
http://tinyurl.com/ahsppj

Architecture and Memory
by Robert Kirkbride
http://tinyurl.com/btmooe

The Astral Memory of Giordano Bruno

In his book De umbris idearum, 1582,
Giordano Bruno develops a cognitive system
consisting of concentric wheels (fig. 24).
The images on the inner wheel include images
of the decans of the zodiac, images of the planets,
the mansions of the moon and the houses of
the horoscope. On the outer wheels are placed
the contents of the inferior world and all
arts and sciences known to man. These images
form combinations as the wheels revolve. By
arranging and manipulating the star-images
one can change the stellar influences on the
inferior world.

This astral memory therefore gives not only
knowledge, but powers. "
~ from :
INHABITING INFORMATION -
THE ARCHITECTURE OF COGNITIVE
AMPLIFICATION

by Barbara Pfenningstorff
http://tinyurl.com/byv9og

Llull's Figura Universalis
http://tinyurl.com/abcgkn

The Craft of Thought
Meditation, rhetoric, and the making of
images, 400-1200
<.PDF>
by Mary Carruthers
http://tinyurl.com/aafl5v

" Natural magic is that which having
contemplated the virtues of all natural
and celestial things and carefully studied
their order proceeds to make known the
hidden and secret powers of nature in
such a way that inferior and superior
things are joined by an interchanging
application of each to each, thus
incredible miracles are often accomplished
not so much by art as by nature, to whom
this art is a secant when working at
these things.

For this reason magicians are careful
explorers of nature only directing what
nature has formerly prepared... therefore
those who believe the operations of magic
to be above or against nature are mistaken
... they are only derived from nature and
in harmony with it.

The mathematical disciplines are so
necessary and cognate to magic that if
anyone should profess the latter without
the former, he would wander totally from
the path and attain the least desired
result. For whatever things are or are
effected in the inferior natural virtues
are all effected and governed by number,
harmony motion and light, and have their
root and foundation in these."

~ Henry Cornelius Agrippa
Three Books of Occult Philosophy
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 08:23:53 am by Khem Caigan » Logged
Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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Belligerent Hairy-Bloke and Improper Philospher


« Reply #296 on: February 22, 2009, 11:37:30 pm »

After skimming your post quick, adn your sources, I'm wondering if you have any online sources for an english translation of Caeser's writings on Gaul?
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Khem Caigan
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Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam


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« Reply #297 on: February 22, 2009, 11:53:46 pm »

After skimming your post quick, and your sources, I'm wondering if you have any online sources for an English translation of Caesar's writings on Gaul?


<Fires up his Babbage Engine>

Is this what you had in mind?

De Bello Gallico and Other
Commentaries

by Caius Julius Caesar
http://tinyurl.com/amgqrn

The Gallic Wars
by Julius Caesar
translated by W. A. McDevitte and W. S. Bohn
http://tinyurl.com/bw48ne
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 01:10:58 am by Khem Caigan » Logged
Mal `e Diction
Gunner
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United States United States

The ghost in your machine.


« Reply #298 on: February 23, 2009, 07:36:11 pm »

i propose that we come up with a set of "agreed upon standards" for the process of defining "sets, and subsets" of natural and/or supernatural creatures, and what constitutes a religious or non-religious affiliation for each... i was reading some earlier posts and couldn't help but notice that some people were incredibly argumentative about certain things...

nobody can please anybody all of the time, but we, as The Order, can come to a compromise on such things as they relate to or apply to discussions and functions of The Order, can't we?


I've been reading this forum, but haven't posted in a while. However this comment caught my eye.

I'm not sure how you could standardize something that, by its very nature, is not standard. It would be like saying to someone "You must follow the rules of my carefully planned spontaneous adventure." No supernatural creature can truly be standardized because they change as society changes. What one generation thinks of creatures like fairies, gremlins, vampires, etc, will not be the same as another — yes the history/folklore would be there, but how it is viewed, and its relevance would change. We as individuals have very different thoughts about what the fey world is about, and how it affects us.

I also agree that no one can please everyone, but we are adults here, and one would hope we could conduct discussions in an adult manner. If things get a bit heated, someone always steps in with cold towels to the foreheads of the combatants, and things calm down.

Or, maybe I just have a phobia against more rules and standardizations.  Undecided
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 07:37:47 pm by Mal `e Diction » Logged

Gypsy time-traveler acquiring intergalactic artifacts for the purpose of lucrative, clandestine remuneration—Pyrate!.

Bombardier on the Columbia's Revenge airship.
groomporter
Zeppelin Admiral
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United States United States


HMA Todd, Combined Highland Expeditionary Force


WWW
« Reply #299 on: February 24, 2009, 12:12:06 am »

Been out of town for a couple days, so I'm jumping back to a previous topic. It crossed my mind that the prevalence of brass and copper may make our contrivances more susceptible to fairy influences, whereas fairies are said to dislike the feel or influence of "cold iron" so including a certain amount of iron may be wise as a charm against such dangers.
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