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Author Topic: The Brass Goggles Occult Society...The Esoteric Order of the Brazen Dawn...  (Read 178363 times)
Marrock
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« Reply #225 on: January 19, 2009, 11:36:22 pm »

Myths about dragons were made up in the first instance by dragons.

Simple really.

Dr. Q.

That's what most of the dragons I know say.
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deps
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« Reply #226 on: January 19, 2009, 11:43:54 pm »

Dragons seem almost a primal memory in the human subconscious, something deeply ingrained like an old instinct that we still can’t shake.


Maybe we're both right? Wink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon#Speculation_on_the_origin_of_dragons
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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« Reply #227 on: January 20, 2009, 07:43:25 am »

"It was big, and scaly, with wings like a bat and horrible breath, like a thousand rotting corpses! It had big yellow eyes and breathed fire, I swear on my ancestors!"

"Gods above and below! What'd you do? How'd you get away?"

"I, uh... Well, she came in for lunch. Mother-in-law, you know? Can't just chop her head off, much as I'd like to..."
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I've stood knee deep cyanide, got sick with a caustic burn
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deps
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« Reply #228 on: January 20, 2009, 12:49:30 pm »

"It was big, and scaly, with wings like a bat and horrible breath, like a thousand rotting corpses! It had big yellow eyes and breathed fire, I swear on my ancestors!"

"Gods above and below! What'd you do? How'd you get away?"

"I, uh... Well, she came in for lunch. Mother-in-law, you know? Can't just chop her head off, much as I'd like to..."
Great one! Cheesy
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Ben Hudson, Esq.
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« Reply #229 on: January 20, 2009, 05:26:31 pm »

Myths about dragons were made up in the first instance by dragons.

Simple really.

Dr. Q.

Makes sense to me.
Am I alone in thinking depictions of dragons with four legs and wings look wrong? Here's why it gets me - 2 wings, plus 4 legs = 6 limbs. How many lizards have six limbs?

Talking of theories, does anyone have theories explaining tarot cards? I have quite a good (though boring) one and I'm interested to see what others think.
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Marrock
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« Reply #230 on: January 20, 2009, 05:38:08 pm »

Makes sense to me.
Am I alone in thinking depictions of dragons with four legs and wings look wrong? Here's why it gets me - 2 wings, plus 4 legs = 6 limbs. How many lizards have six limbs?

Well, the simple explanation is the fact that dragons aren't lizards and a "dragon" with only two legs and two wings is a wyvern, not a dragon and is, in fact, of the serpent family.
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Ben Hudson, Esq.
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« Reply #231 on: January 20, 2009, 06:02:55 pm »

Makes sense to me.
Am I alone in thinking depictions of dragons with four legs and wings look wrong? Here's why it gets me - 2 wings, plus 4 legs = 6 limbs. How many lizards have six limbs?

Well, the simple explanation is the fact that dragons aren't lizards and a "dragon" with only two legs and two wings is a wyvern, not a dragon and is, in fact, of the serpent family.

I meant reptile rather than lizard, but yeah. If we assume that dragons are still extant, logic would seem to dictate that it would be similar to species also extant. Scales + eggs + forked tongues etc = reptile to me. As for wyverns, they're a type of dragon.
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Marrock
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« Reply #232 on: January 20, 2009, 08:28:54 pm »

As for wyverns, they're a type of dragon.

They are to dragons as chimpanzees are to humans.

Now if you folks are really interested I may, I repeat may, be able to bring in a dragon or three to help with the discussion... provided you can be open-minded and non-mocking.
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DrTom
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« Reply #233 on: January 20, 2009, 09:50:34 pm »

Among my favorite explanations of dragons and their mythology comes from Peter Dickson's speculative book The Flight of Dragons (not the movie by the same title).  Even if you vehemently disagree with his thesis that Dragons are an extinct version of a kind of biological airship, the artwork is amazing enough to peruse the book nonetheless.
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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« Reply #234 on: January 21, 2009, 06:43:44 am »

As for wyverns, they're a type of dragon.

They are to dragons as chimpanzees are to humans.

Now if you folks are really interested I may, I repeat may, be able to bring in a dragon or three to help with the discussion... provided you can be open-minded and non-mocking.
Why, are they... funny looking dragons? 'Cause I'll laugh if thems look funny.

Wyvrens aren't dragons the same way hamsters aren't rats. Similar, sure but not the same.

Tarot cards were invented by the French. It was a game. Their use has shifted to divination. There's nothing especially magical about them as they are, just the same way bones aren't particularly magical. It's all in the diviner, the cards or other devices are just a tool.
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Dr. Zedrich Heretic
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« Reply #235 on: January 21, 2009, 07:03:54 am »

Tarot cards were invented by the French. It was a game. Their use has shifted to divination. There's nothing especially magical about them as they are, just the same way bones aren't particularly magical. It's all in the diviner, the cards or other devices are just a tool.
This is an interesting perspective, and one I’ve pondered often.  Back when I lived in Ontario I used to take ling rides on my bicycle.  On a few of these rides I passed by a new age store.  So one time on a whim I stopped and took a look inside.  Unfortunately I didn’t see much beyond overpriced knickknacks and pretty rocks that were said to cure this that and the other thing.  After a short discussion with the person at the till, (a conversation I can’t remember now) I left, continuing my ride.

While I was riding my mind mulled over things, and what my thoughts condensed into was this question.  Is it the object that holds power?  Or the fact that I as a living soul believe it does?  It is a thing to ponder.
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groomporter
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« Reply #236 on: January 21, 2009, 02:48:43 pm »


Tarot cards were invented by the French. It was a game. Their use has shifted to divination. There's nothing especially magical about them as they are, just the same way bones aren't particularly magical. It's all in the diviner, the cards or other devices are just a tool.
A slight correction Tarot cards seem to first appear in Italy around the 1430's or about 60 years after standard playing cards start appearing in Europe, but you are correct they were a trick taking game long before they were used for cartomancy. (the major arcana were used as a trump suit). For some reason the games never caught on as much in English-speaking countries. The first books on divination with cards were not actually written until the 1760's as part of the early portion of the spiritualism/occult movement. A newish theory regarding Tarot cards is that some of the figures portrayed may actually be inspired by allegorical figures portrayed in Medieval passion plays and Mardi Gras celebrations, so they might have more Christian connections than people realize.
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groomporter
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« Reply #237 on: January 21, 2009, 02:51:18 pm »

While I was riding my mind mulled over things, and what my thoughts condensed into was this question.  Is it the object that holds power?  Or the fact that I as a living soul believe it does?  It is a thing to ponder.

If precognition exists, I've always assumed it is in the person and that the bones, cards, chicken entrails, etc. are just a tool/ritual to help them focus.
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Marrock
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« Reply #238 on: January 21, 2009, 03:27:11 pm »

Why, are they... funny looking dragons? 'Cause I'll laugh if thems look funny.

Wyvrens aren't dragons the same way hamsters aren't rats. Similar, sure but not the same.

No, they're not funny looking, but they, like most folks, wont bother to try to help anyone if they're going to be abused for their effort.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 03:31:38 pm by Marrock » Logged
Ben Hudson, Esq.
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« Reply #239 on: January 21, 2009, 04:08:13 pm »

Tarot cards were invented by the French. It was a game. Their use has shifted to divination. There's nothing especially magical about them as they are, just the same way bones aren't particularly magical. It's all in the diviner, the cards or other devices are just a tool.
This is an interesting perspective, and one I’ve pondered often.  Back when I lived in Ontario I used to take ling rides on my bicycle.  On a few of these rides I passed by a new age store.  So one time on a whim I stopped and took a look inside.  Unfortunately I didn’t see much beyond overpriced knickknacks and pretty rocks that were said to cure this that and the other thing.  After a short discussion with the person at the till, (a conversation I can’t remember now) I left, continuing my ride.

While I was riding my mind mulled over things, and what my thoughts condensed into was this question.  Is it the object that holds power?  Or the fact that I as a living soul believe it does?  It is a thing to ponder.

That's pretty much what I was thinking about. Sure, if  you want to believe that the cards let themselves be shuffled and placed so that they (or some other controlling being) gives you a message about the future, or if indeed the actions of the person doing the reading allows them to choose appropriate cards, that's fine (because that's no more far fetched than some of the things I believe).
But to me, it makes more sense that the possible meanings of the cards stimulates thought in the person. This allows them to come to a conclusion of a meaning based on subconscious thought. In other words, the medium of the cards promotes a deeper kind of contemplation over what are essentially random cards. Hence, it's not reading the future as such, but meditating in order to come to a meaning that will allow you to expect and cope with what the future holds.
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Gazongola
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« Reply #240 on: January 22, 2009, 02:58:30 am »

Never really done much tarot card reading personally. Now, if anyone has any other methods off divining/using pendulums for things other than yes and no questions then that would be useful.
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Mrs. Sullivan
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« Reply #241 on: January 22, 2009, 05:06:54 am »

Tarot cards were invented by the French. It was a game. Their use has shifted to divination. There's nothing especially magical about them as they are, just the same way bones aren't particularly magical. It's all in the diviner, the cards or other devices are just a tool.

This is an interesting perspective, and one I’ve pondered often.  Back when I lived in Ontario I used to take ling rides on my bicycle.  On a few of these rides I passed by a new age store.  So one time on a whim I stopped and took a look inside.  Unfortunately I didn’t see much beyond overpriced knickknacks and pretty rocks that were said to cure this that and the other thing.  After a short discussion with the person at the till, (a conversation I can’t remember now) I left, continuing my ride.

While I was riding my mind mulled over things, and what my thoughts condensed into was this question.  Is it the object that holds power?  Or the fact that I as a living soul believe it does?  It is a thing to ponder.


That's pretty much what I was thinking about. Sure, if  you want to believe that the cards let themselves be shuffled and placed so that they (or some other controlling being) gives you a message about the future, or if indeed the actions of the person doing the reading allows them to choose appropriate cards, that's fine (because that's no more far fetched than some of the things I believe).
But to me, it makes more sense that the possible meanings of the cards stimulates thought in the person. This allows them to come to a conclusion of a meaning based on subconscious thought. In other words, the medium of the cards promotes a deeper kind of contemplation over what are essentially random cards. Hence, it's not reading the future as such, but meditating in order to come to a meaning that will allow you to expect and cope with what the future holds.


Jung had some interesting ideas about the archetypal images of the Tarot.  Also see this article re:the use of Tarot cards in therapy, utilizing chaos theory.  http://www.schuelers.com/chaos/chaos7.htm

Makes sense to me!
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DrTom
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« Reply #242 on: January 22, 2009, 05:11:27 am »

Yep, the Tarot can be used therapeutically quite like the Thematic Apperception Test (TAT), where a person is shown pictures and asked to tell a story utilizing the pictures as a stimulus.  I reserve that only for my occult-minded clientele, however.

Another Oracle, the Luman Dreaming in Color deck, is much better suited for therapy, however (and doesn't weird out the non-occultists quite so much).
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Sean Patrick O-Byrne
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« Reply #243 on: January 22, 2009, 08:52:34 am »

I had a big long post on this subject, but the computer froze and I lost it...  Embarrassed
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deps
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« Reply #244 on: January 22, 2009, 10:40:07 am »

Please try posting again. These topics interest me and I would like to get more information and personal views about them. Smiley
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groomporter
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« Reply #245 on: January 22, 2009, 01:45:49 pm »

I had a big long post on this subject, but the computer froze and I lost it...  Embarrassed
Time to exorcise the ghost in the machine?
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Lady Anne
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« Reply #246 on: January 24, 2009, 09:14:56 pm »

I had a big long post on this subject, but the computer froze and I lost it...  Embarrassed
Time to exorcise the ghost in the machine?
It didn't want you letting out its secrets.
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Ben Hudson, Esq.
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« Reply #247 on: January 27, 2009, 05:35:42 pm »

Hmmm. I'm getting quite interested in Tarot cards now. Does anyone have any recommendations about which set to get?
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Marrock
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« Reply #248 on: January 27, 2009, 06:17:58 pm »

When I use a tarot deck I'm partial to the Dragon Tarot Deck.
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DrTom
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« Reply #249 on: January 27, 2009, 07:37:12 pm »

Hmmm. I'm getting quite interested in Tarot cards now. Does anyone have any recommendations about which set to get?

I used to teach Tarot (I read since I was a lad...mother insisted), and this is often the most logical first question I get from someone approaching me with an interest.  Since this is such an individual decision, it's difficult to say that one deck is superior to another, so I have just a few guidelines (the following is from an article I put together on the subject some years ago):

Although these are guidelines that I strongly suggest for my students and based on many years of experience working with beginners, they are certainly not set in stone.  Keep in mind that the overriding principle is find a deck that you like first and foremost.  If you find a deck with which you resonate in defiance of these criteria, congratulate yourself on a job well done!

1) Most modern decks are based at least partially on the Rider-Waite-Smith (RWS) symbolism (these are often referred to as "clones"). For that reason, it is advisable to familiarize yourself with this symbolic system, as it enhances your own flexibility across decks as a reader. As such, I highly recommend these kinds of cards for a first deck.

Just because we call them “clones,” however, does not mean that they lack originality. You will find many beautiful and creative decks that are very distinct from one another yet retain their links to the RWS symbolism!

2) More importantly, do all of the cards have detailed drawings? This includes the Minor Arcana. Many decks have beautifully presented Majors, but the Minor Arcana cards are left merely with a number and a representation of a suit (e.g., simply six cups for the "six of cups" and no 'picture' to go with it). With detailed graphics on each card, you can draw from the symbolism presented. This enhances learning, creative reading, and it makes explaining the meanings of each card to the client much easier!

3) Are the cards too big or too small to shuffle comfortably? Most people are accustomed to shuffling a standard-sized deck. Remember, this deck is already thicker than the standard 52-card deck. Overly small or large cards may make it even more difficult for you to handle them without fumbling frequently. Also, many readers ask their clients to shuffle the cards. If you choose this method, it is even more advisable to choose a deck that is similar in size to a standard deck.

Hoping it helps!
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