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Author Topic: Steampunk/Victorian Taboos  (Read 5956 times)
Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2008, 07:54:50 am »


No, seriously, stay out. That subculture is like Baskin Robbins, 31 colors of crazy, and none of them are delicious. It's a nightmarish wasteland of psychological neuroses and insecurities the degrees of which would give Freud a hate aneurysm. Heinrich Himmler would have been shocked at some of the shit that happens behind closed doors at those conventions.

RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

What, is that the whole BDSM scene you're talking about?
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2008, 07:57:27 am »

What, is that the whole BDSM scene you're talking about?

Only the ones who take it seriously.
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The only thing more dangerous than a good idea is a bad idea held by motivated idiots.
Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2008, 08:04:01 am »

"Going Native" was considered to be dreadfully bad form.  When men were posted to the far corners of the Empire, the temptation to start allowing the native culture to influence one's behaviour in any way (other than the acceptable forms of tea etc) would send one straight to the bottom of the social pile.
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Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2008, 08:08:13 am »

What, is that the whole BDSM scene you're talking about?

Only the ones who take it seriously.

OK, fair point.  I was going to say that there are some (many) of us who are actually relatively well-balanced (apart, of course, from our prediliction for beating the hell out of each other), but I think your distinction is actually pretty well-drawn.  The really good practitioners and those who are the most effective do take it seriously, but without being serious - ie they are aware of how odd the whole scene is.

Congujation of the verb "To Be Perverse":  "He is a pervert, you are kinky, I am sexually adventurous..."
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2008, 08:23:11 am »

OK, fair point.  I was going to say that there are some (many) of us who are actually relatively well-balanced (apart, of course, from our prediliction for beating the hell out of each other), but I think your distinction is actually pretty well-drawn.  The really good practitioners and those who are the most effective do take it seriously, but without being serious - ie they are aware of how odd the whole scene is.

Congujation of the verb "To Be Perverse":  "He is a pervert, you are kinky, I am sexually adventurous..."

I met a lot of really cool people at the FFF, I'm not going to deny that. Hell, two of my best friends are furry swingers, one of whom is pregnant, so Lord knows what's going to happen with that. I'm not one to judge. . . Most people.

However, there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of shrieking madness going on behind closed doors. I also take issue with a lot of the 24/7 stuff. Sure, people enter it willingly, but come on, that's neither healthy nor is it natural. The sad part is that it's so damn hard to differentiate between "good" BDSM relationships and "bad" relationships that many people just label the whole thing as abuse, and that's really not fair.

Especially when the courts get involved. Especially when the courts get children involved.

But, hey, on the evening news, how are you going to differentiate a wife with an impact fetish because she likes standing up to authority, and a wife with an impact fetish because her dad used to beat her, and that's how traumatic re-enactment works?

And that's the main reason I haven't written down my experiences and made a book. It would attract all the wrong attention to BDSM, and you guys just generate enough bad press as it is. The last thing this world needs is some half-clueless twit reading my stories and then biting off more than he can chew, after selling his or herself to the wrong spouse.

It's half and half, really. Half out of respect for the culture, half out of my hatred of having other people blame their dumb on me. I just don't need that stress.
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Flynn MacCallister
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Mad SCIENTIST!


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« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2008, 08:35:55 am »

(Re: not writing a book: Isn't that what disclaimers are for? )
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2008, 08:40:28 am »

Diswhowiththewhatnot?


edit- I know I could put disclaimers up the wazoo, I could claim that it's all a work of fiction without having to change a single detail, but at the end of the day, I'd still know that I was the one responsible for the negative ramifications of the things I wrote.

I know it's silly to hold myself responsible for other people's thoughts and actions, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. :-/
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 08:43:10 am by CapnSamwise » Logged
Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2008, 08:53:19 am »


However, there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of shrieking madness going on behind closed doors. I also take issue with a lot of the 24/7 stuff. Sure, people enter it willingly, but come on, that's neither healthy nor is it natural. The sad part is that it's so damn hard to differentiate between "good" BDSM relationships and "bad" relationships that many people just label the whole thing as abuse, and that's really not fair.

But isn't it the case that the 'shrieking madness' you talk about is just an expression of what's there already;  the BDSM scene just gives one more latitude to express it?   Yes, the book Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns has a funny list of doms/subs to avoid, including those who are there for all the wrong reasons, but those character traits/flaws are every bit as present in the general community, just expressed in different ways.  In many cases, I'd say that BDSM offers a safe way of exploring those dark areas of the psychology.  You can go into the dark dungeon of your mind and play for a while, knowing that when you're not enjoying it any more you can click your ruby-red slippers, say 'there's no place like home' and you're out, safe and sound.

And I don't agree that there's any difficulty in differentiating between 'good and 'bad' BDSM relationships, simply because there's no such thing as a bad BDSM relationship.  There's a BDSM relationship, which is based on trust, shared objectives, communication and understanding... and then there's an abusive relationship, which is none of the above.

Especially when the courts get involved. Especially when the courts get children involved.

Whoa there Nelly.  When did anyone start bringing children into this?

But, hey, on the evening news, how are you going to differentiate a wife with an impact fetish because she likes standing up to authority, and a wife with an impact fetish because her dad used to beat her, and that's how traumatic re-enactment works?

Well, even assuming that there's a difference, why do you need to?  You seem to be assuming that people who like to be subs are in some way psychologically flawed.  Not my experience.

And that's the main reason I haven't written down my experiences and made a book. It would attract all the wrong attention to BDSM, and you guys just generate enough bad press as it is. The last thing this world needs is some half-clueless twit reading my stories and then biting off more than he can chew, after selling his or herself to the wrong spouse.

Wow.  I'm sorry to say this, but for someone who's spent time as a pro dom, you seem to have very little understanding of the BDSM community and even less respect for it.  FYI, I don't hink anyone I know goes out of thier way to generate bad press. We're quite happy to be left alone to get on with our games in privacy, thanks.  Nobody's there who doesn't want to be there, however it might seem on the latest screamer headline in the tabloids.


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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2008, 09:36:35 am »

But isn't it the case that the 'shrieking madness' you talk about is just an expression of what's there already;  the BDSM scene just gives one more latitude to express it?   Yes, the book Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns has a funny list of doms/subs to avoid, including those who are there for all the wrong reasons, but those character traits/flaws are every bit as present in the general community, just expressed in different ways.  In many cases, I'd say that BDSM offers a safe way of exploring those dark areas of the psychology.  You can go into the dark dungeon of your mind and play for a while, knowing that when you're not enjoying it any more you can click your ruby-red slippers, say 'there's no place like home' and you're out, safe and sound.

I'm not saying that practitioners have access to some special Pandora's Box of crazy, I'm saying that it gives individuals another method of excising antisocial urges and frustrations, usually on other people. I'm not entirely convinced that's a good thing. It takes a lot of training to teach people that hitting is bad, and, even in a restrained, special environment, I don't think that we ought to be desensitizing people to the downsides of things like impact play.

That's an example, yes, but that's the first example that comes to mind. Conditioned versus unconditioned stimuli, hitting someone a dungeon provides positive psychological feedback, if done enough, in the right setting.

And I don't agree that there's any difficulty in differentiating between 'good and 'bad' BDSM relationships, simply because there's no such thing as a bad BDSM relationship.  There's a BDSM relationship, which is based on trust, shared objectives, communication and understanding... and then there's an abusive relationship, which is none of the above.

Yeah, but there's no denying that people use BDSM as an excuse to be power-tripping bastards. It happens in mainstream society to be sure, yeah, but there are a number of BDSM subcultures that specialize in the devaluing of humanity. I am not okay with that, ever, even if the people involved are.

It irks me that the most prevalent example I can think of is Gor, because I think I've met maybe three people who knew what it was, that didn't think it was terribly silly. I've heard them being called the Scientologists of BDSM, what's your take on that?

Whoa there Nelly.  When did anyone start bringing children into this?

Personal experience, rather nasty divorce that happened to a friend of mine, when his wife decided she wanted out of the lifestyle. Again, not faulting either one of them, just saying it happens, and it's ugly.

Well, even assuming that there's a difference, why do you need to?  You seem to be assuming that people who like to be subs are in some way psychologically flawed.  Not my experience.

Probably just my luck (I live in Connecticut, which is apparently nefarious for being a bad, bad place) but almost every sub I met was a mewling sycophant, who needed someone to live their lives for them. I tried flipping through my developmental psych textbooks, and one of them exploded.

No, that's a lie. It's late and I have an essay to be procrastinating on.

Anyway, there are well-developed subs out there. I know this, I'm not denying it, mostly I'm talking about the 24/7 variety. The ones that need a collar to function, you know what I mean.


Wow.  I'm sorry to say this, but for someone who's spent time as a pro dom, you seem to have very little understanding of the BDSM community and even less respect for it.  FYI, I don't hink anyone I know goes out of thier way to generate bad press. We're quite happy to be left alone to get on with our games in privacy, thanks.  Nobody's there who doesn't want to be there, however it might seem on the latest screamer headline in the tabloids.

Ex-pro dom. There's a reason the ex is there. I left because of several fundamental issues with the community near me. I've come to learn that they're, well, special, so apparently my mileage varied greatly.

It's also worth noting that I wasn't a terribly good pro-dom, either.  Had a hard time getting into it, didn't look good in leather pants, performance anxiety, you know how it is.

I'm not accusing you of locking up unwilling participants and cutting them with razors (happened to me, but that's a different thread) I'm saying that there are people in the lifestyle who are using it as a catharsis for psychological maladaptations. This happens in the real world, too. Hell, anyone who worked retail understands the concept of a power trip, yes. But the experiences one might get scratching at that psychic scab in the BDSM world are a great deal more intense than cutting someone off in traffic, you know?

And, again, the reason I'm not publishing my experiences, is because it would be almost certain bad press, and as badly as I burned the bridges in my area, I don't think I could do that to the community at large.


tl;dr: people use BDSM as an alternative to therapy for their disorders and I take issue with that.
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Atterton
Time Traveler
****

Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2008, 11:07:35 am »

People discussing their sexuality in such details as on here would be a big taboo. Can we have that again?
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Resurrectionist and freelance surgeon.
Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2008, 11:56:03 am »

People discussing their sexuality in such details as on here would be a big taboo. Can we have that again?


Awww.... spoilsport...
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2008, 12:22:34 pm »

This thread has given me a great idea for a few hardhacks. . .

Now, I wonder, can you really steampunk a violet wand all that much?
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Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2008, 12:31:10 pm »

"Captain Samwise'e Electro-Aetheric energy exciter:  Guaranteed relief from:  tension, aches, pains, malaise, weltschmerz, lack of moral fibre, listlessness and rabies.  100% satisfaction or money refunded"
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2008, 12:42:58 pm »

lack of moral fibre

*cough*

Yeah. none too sure about that last one.

I was more thinking, oh I don't know, what I could do to the wand itself. It's glass and lightning, I mean, it's basically a Tesla wet dream as-is. Do I glue watch parts to it? Maybe spraypaint it a little bit?
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Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2008, 12:48:01 pm »

Just wear a Doktor Frankenstein outfit and goggle when you use it, with maybe a Jacob's Ladder going in the background.  The thing itself is almost unsteamable as it is...
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CapnSamwise
Gunner
**
United States United States


So there I was, naked.


« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2008, 01:25:38 pm »

Lab coats? Goggles? I thought we agreed to stop talking about our sex lives!
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Zastrozzi
Guest
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2008, 01:29:25 pm »

Lab coats? Goggles? I thought we agreed to stop talking about our sex lives!

Please sir, he started it!  It wasn't me!
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SteamBlast Mary
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Gravatar

A spanner in the works


« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2015, 12:07:48 am »



And that's the main reason I haven't written down my experiences and made a book. It would attract all the wrong attention to BDSM, and you guys just generate enough bad press as it is. The last thing this world needs is some half-clueless twit reading my stories and then biting off more than he can chew, after selling his or herself to the wrong spouse.



...

Fifty Shades of Grey. 'Nuff said.
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'I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night’
Burgess Shale
Officer
***
United States United States



« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2015, 06:17:14 pm »

Mrs. Sullivan,

I am now inclined to develop a secret identity, the Rouge Rogue. (Or Rogue Rouge, when I'm amongst francophones). I just need a red mask and a cause for which to fight.

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Dean of the Department of Palaeontology at the American Institute of Natural History and Decorative Arts
Jedediah Solomon
Snr. Officer
****
Canada Canada


If all else fails, get a larger hammer


WWW
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2015, 05:46:44 am »

Oh, my. The very thought of your un-tanned ankle being glimpsed 'neath your petticoat prompts certain...stirrings.
All jovial it aside, the bygone era was somewhat prudish and yet,  even with such brazen temptress walking the beaches and piers these days there is something "Naughty" about seeing a leg or midriff through an opening (even if that opening is intentional in something like a split skirt)   even more than a bikini. But my Grandmother would say   "Its a shame that that is no longer a shame" 
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Adventure awaits
Jedediah Solomon
Snr. Officer
****
Canada Canada


If all else fails, get a larger hammer


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« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2015, 05:56:18 am »

I have always had a weird thing about showing bare ankles. Even when I was an exotic dancer years ago I would always wear boots even when I wasn't wearing much else.
Sorry....point of reference. I forgot to draw the quote into my post
Non-sequitor
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