Fighting like a Steam Punk

[Mad Maudlin]

Heh, I'm actually a woman. And I already asked sensei about fighting them. All he did was remind the whole class to be disciplined. Grahg.

[Dr. Wilson Montgomery]

However, plenty of Steampunks are upper-class poofs.
And like almost all the threads on this forum, there's:  'How does a Steampunk in a sci-fi story fight?' as one question, and 'How does a person who is a lifestyle Steampunk in the real-world day-to-day fight?' as another question, both of which are present on this thread.

Well, I think I match both categories quite well, seeing as my steam-persona belongs to the upper classes, while I´m here in "real life" is a poof... well, in the meaning "queer" - ther´s probably other meanings of the word "poof" I´m not aware of, so..

So how do I fight?
Easy; I fight the way I´ve learned from several years of chinese martial arts: Quick, dirty and as brutal as I can, if there´s no hope of running away. Yes, perhaps cowardly, but I much prefer to -not- have to fight even though I know how (having seen the frailty of the human body up close...), and fortunately I´ve only been forced to one single time since I took up martial arts, when some drunken lowlife attacked my boyfriend.

As far as putting some steam into it all, I think the dressing-up part of steampunk to be excellent from a self defence view; a sturdy cane/walking stick  can be used the same was as the Qiang/spear or the Jian/straight sword... and with pretty nasty results as well. A good wallop with three feet of solid wood *hurts*

...although... I´d like to see a gauntlet firing spring-loaded sharpened cogs, a cane with pressurised poison gas in the tip, trapped umbrellas and what-have-you. "There´s no end to the possibilities!"

[Utini420]

Sounds like someone's been "Painting the Clouds," Dr. Montgomery.   I like Chinese blades, myself.

Mad Maudlin, if your school is worth beans, you'll end up getting ring-time with those loosers, and you'll be able to enjoy it more if you've not recently asked for it.  Its just bound to come up sooner or later... karma tends to roll much more quickly around martial artists, I've noticed.

[Acheron]

So how do I fight?
Easy; I fight the way I´ve learned from several years of chinese martial arts: Quick, dirty and as brutal as I can, if there´s no hope of running away. Yes, perhaps cowardly, but I much prefer to -not- have to fight even though I know how (having seen the frailty of the human body up close...), and fortunately I´ve only been forced to one single time since I took up martial arts, when some drunken lowlife attacked my boyfriend.

Good man. We ought to practice martial arts more in this society. As a tradition, really, and not just in P.E.

Personally, I don't believe in fighting with 'regimen' or training. I do believe in technique though. Although I've found that most attempts at anything more complex than a gut punch or an arm twist or a swipe to a superficial vulnerable spot tends to be too unreliable. I've not had that much training, but I've attended kickboxing, some Jeet Kune Do and Karate. Most of what I know isn't exotic or based upon more than observation, but I've unfortunately gotten more experience out of brawling with people very little concerned with styles or training and far more with breaking ribs and kicking you into unconsciousness.

Speed, reach, and power, and an iron-solid condition. That's what I like to rely on, and what I'd recommend to anyone. And a pair of brass knuckles. And if it might look like 'good old-fashioned fisticuffs', that's basically because you mostly don't have the space, the time or the luxury to use your feet.

[Dr. Wilson Montgomery]

Personally, I don't believe in fighting with 'regimen' or training. I do believe in technique though. Although I've found that most attempts at anything more complex than a gut punch or an arm twist or a swipe to a superficial vulnerable spot tends to be too unreliable.


Speed, reach, and power, and an iron-solid condition. That's what I like to rely on, and what I'd recommend to anyone. And a pair of brass knuckles. And if it might look like 'good old-fashioned fisticuffs', that's basically because you mostly don't have the space, the time or the luxury to use your feet.

As for the first part of your comments quoted above, I think Bruce Lee said it best with "Learn the form, but seek the formless". If you´re capable of performing advances forms (or kata, or patterns or whatever your particular style calls it) during sparring and other types of training, then you gain quite a bit of edge even when it boils down to just a sucker-punch or a kick to the knees when push comes to shove.

Secondly, as for Speed, reach, and power, and an iron-solid condition. I´d say that the absolutely best way to get all of that is, indeed, to join a good martial arts-club. Then again, I´m quite abit biased in this matter

Sounds like someone's been "Painting the Clouds," Dr. Montgomery.  I like Chinese blades, myself.

I´m partial to a hefty dose of "Stepping forward to cut groin" or "Cutting a star on the left" myself
And chinese blades oh-so-very-much a longtime love affair of mine.

[Utini420]

As my teacher is fond of saying, speed beats power, but technique beats speed.

The catch when it comes to martial arts is that a little bit of training is actually worse than no training.  With no training, you are relying on reflexes millions of years old.  That shit works.  But you cut yourself off from most of that when you add a little bit of training, and a fighter doesn't become effective again until you pour in enough training that the skill is down into the bones and muscles (if you have to think about the moves, they will fail.  The slickest shit I've ever pulled off had to be described to me after the fact, because I just kinda did it.).  This training takes years, at a minimum. 

There are many martial artists who disagree with me on this, and my own school is a very slow-developing art, but that is my impression.

Another, linked, observation is that you can only really tell what style someone is doing at the "middle ranks."  A beginner looks like an uncoordinated clown, no matter what style he's apeing, and interestingly that uncoordination looks the same if you're teaching traditional Kung Fu or strip-mall Tae Kwon Do (I've done both).  In the middle ranks, typically most almost-black belts and recent black belts (with maybe a Dan or two, whatever) you can really see the style in the crisp moves these guys have been drilling and perfecting for years.  But when you get to the masters, I find that they all look rather similar again: that effortless subtle motion that owns your punk ass all over the floor looks pretty similar, be the man a Sifu or Sensai (unless we're talking extremes of hard style/soft style, its hard to confuse Tai Chi for Shotokan).

[tophatdan]

As my teacher is fond of saying, speed beats power, but technique beats speed.

i have not found that to be true, i have been in quite a few barfights and the like over the years and i find a guy who hits hard (power) is way worse than a guy who hits fast (speed) now i cant say i have known but a handfull of guys who had technique, but the guys who did, hit both hard and fast...

just my personal findings...

[Gentleman-Adventurer]

I had some unique rather experiences in combat training quite recently. I had an actual module for my archaeology course last year: Combat Archaeology. 10% of the course involved making a shield and taking part in three (!) sessions of Greek hoplite fighting: sword and shield, spear and shield, and pankration. This counted towards my damn degree  .

[Utini420]

That, sir, sounds like FUN!

[Gentleman-Adventurer]

It bloody well was. The class then went on to found a whole society that now does this once a week: The Combat Archaeology Research Group.

[Atterton]

You do know there are several medieval fighting groups in Ireland, right? I was a member of one myself.

[Utini420]

Ya, there's midevil, but then there's ancient!

[Gentleman-Adventurer]

Word of warning: be wary of being smacked in the face with a wooden sword by a professor, who, despite appearances, can move like greased lightning.

[Utini420]

I've certainly known a few.

TopHat, on that speed/power thing: I didn't mean that a single fast punch is superior to a single strong punch.  I meant (and my sifu meant) that the man who's total fighting package relies most on his speed over all (hand speed, reflexes, reaction time, delay between strikes in a combo, etc.) will beat the man who relies only on his strength, and that the man who's total package is based on superior technique would beat them both.  Key to that, though: it isn't enough to simply have speed, or simply have technique.  Its got to be enough faster and enough better, if you take my meaning.  A slow-handed wimp with crappy technique, no matter how much he relies on that technique, is still going to get owned.

[Acheron]

Secondly, as for Speed, reach, and power, and an iron-solid condition. I´d say that the absolutely best way to get all of that is, indeed, to join a good martial arts-club. Then again, I´m quite abit biased in this matter

Sure. But if you have the discipline down all on your own, and you don't have the time... And besides, there are few ways to improve your reach by any huge amount that don't cost you safe footing. Better then go for speed.

i have not found that to be true, i have been in quite a few barfights and the like over the years and i find a guy who hits hard (power) is way worse than a guy who hits fast (speed) now i cant say i have known but a handfull of guys who had technique, but the guys who did, hit both hard and fast...

Power is linear. Speed is exponential. Big guys who have lifted weights and run track for years typically still have to practice a lot at getting the flexibility and the snap into their limbs before they can take on taught fighters who might weigh forty or sixty pounds less than they do. Not to mention getting reaction times and movement economization down. At least, that's been my general impression.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

Power is linear. Speed is exponential. Big guys who have lifted weights and run track for years typically still have to practice a lot at getting the flexibility and the snap into their limbs before they can take on taught fighters who might weigh forty or sixty pounds less than they do. Not to mention getting reaction times and movement economization down. At least, that's been my general impression.

I agree here.  I've definitely gotten some chuckles watching cock-sure great burly dudes box...their big, heavy arms, all moving slooow and hitting weakly, and generally getting knocked around.

Thus the term 'Musclebound'.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Speed, power, technique. All important. All relevant. But...most people miss the most important element of the equation...the one that makes the difference between winning and failing.
Ruthlessness. The guy who isn't too squeamish to stick his thumb in an opponent's eye, the man who doesn't feel like he's "cheating" to pick up half a brick and bash someone's brains out, the person who realizes that every fight can easily escalate to a fight to the death...that man is going to win. There are no rules. There is no "fair." In the world that is going to be the "real world" all too soon, the only parameters are going to be win or die.
Everything else is just posing.
Forget about "Never kick a man when he's down." As soon as your opponent hits the pavement, kick him in the head. Hard. Then stomp it. When you see brains, it's over. Then walk away. Don't call 911. Don't tell anybody about it. Drive to a different county, and throw your shoes away in a dumpster behind a fast food restaurant, in a plastic bag. A dead man isn't going to press charges, or sue you. This of course presumes that your attacker is the criminal. Guess what? The cops aren't going to waste too much time trying to track down the killer of a known criminal. They're going to assume that he ran afoul of some of his criminal "buddies" and that they will eventually pick up the guilty party on some future charge.
The bottom line is this...if you are attacked on the street, then all bets are off, and the fact is that if you end some stupid bastard, you are doing the world a favour, and probably saving the life of someone else in the future.

~T

[Vagabond GentleMan]

Amen.

[RPGnerd]

Word of warning: be wary of being smacked in the face with a wooden sword by a professor, who, despite appearances, can move like greased lightning.

Gent I know you on Deviant Art (I'm Vonmeer)

Wood hurts, I should know I've been fighting in the SCA since 1986 and seen broken limbs, knees and lots of fingers over the years. I don't find it steampunky just brutal and violent. I have begun fencing in heavy rapier (not that foil nonsense) and while closer it still does not reach steampunk.

The only other combat training I have is HCS (Hostile Control System, organized streetfighting) and firearms training...so the gun-fu is the most steampunk that I know.

I think to understand Steampunk combat we need to understand 19th century fighting and make it less practical. It will be based around the gun for the smarter steampunk, as guns beat knives and fists.

For pistols I imagine small quirky European pinfire pistols more than practical pistols like the peacemaker carried in the pocket attached to a pocketwatch fob for the dandy or as a muff pistol for a lady.

For the more military minded the Lemat is obvious, it was steampunk when they made it. Shotguns are perfect for steampunk combat, just buy some Dragonfire shells turning your shotgun into a short range flamethrower seems really steampunk. Dimeshot is also a good choice as are fletchettes.

Crank driven guns seem under covered in steampunk, I have a crank driven trigger on a 22.cal rifle that can empty a 50rnd drum mag in a few seconds. I would imagine Airships would have many crank driven guns aboard them.

Canons trump all but not many will be walking about with one.

[patron_vectras]

Shotguns are perfect for steampunk combat, just buy some Dragonfire shells turning your shotgun into a short range flamethrower seems really steampunk.

Looked it up because of awesomeness... The shotgun shells are actually registered as Dragon's Breath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Breath

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkMWX9VP_Zk

satisfyingly illegal in multiple American states ;]

[RPGnerd]

Shotguns are perfect for steampunk combat, just buy some Dragonfire shells turning your shotgun into a short range flamethrower seems really steampunk.

satisfyingly illegal in multiple American states ;]

Illegal in fascist friendly states sure but damn funny, they go by many names and will set fire to dry grass....ummm...don't shoot em on your friends farmland.....not that I  have of course it's just they go further than they say on the box and don't soot them from older guns as they heat up the barrel.

Also look up "Explosive Targets" I think "cheaper than dirt" still sells em.

[Malcom Kane]

A couple of comments on the previous posts.
1: To quote one of my teachers "Never eat a place called Mom"s, Never play poker with a man called Slim, and in a fight between a 125lb 5th Dan blackbelt and a 250 lb Irish stevadore....Bet on the stevadore.
2: The LeMatt is a caplock ,Dragon's Breath rounds won't work in it.

[RPGnerd]

2: The LeMatt is a caplock ,Dragon's Breath rounds won't work in it.

Well with a razor knife and a bit of ingenuity it might. though I'd only do it to modern made one. If I was going to try it I'd use like a 5th size charge and work up...and wear long sleeves and heavy gloves on a windless day.

[yeps]

Psha! Fighting! I practice the art of Parkour

Cheers to the art of how to run away when you are too scared to fight.

[Dr. Wilson Montgomery]

Psha! Fighting! I practice the art of Parkour

Cheers to the art of how to run away when you are too scared to fight.

Run away, plot your revenge and return with several pounds of high explosives loaded into a clockwork torpedo?