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Author Topic: Fighting like a Steam Punk  (Read 38097 times)
Riaghos Meridian
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2008, 04:47:22 pm »

I never thought that any experience with kendo could prove that one is not fit for fencing. I too come down with crushing damage. I suppose with enough practice I could work fencing. Bartitsu (I almost spelled it Baristu: doubt anyone has learned a fighting style around coffee serving, but there's always a first for everything) sounds intriguing enough. I may have to check it out. I have a pretty sweet umbrella that I often to use when riding the bus and have imagined myself actively using it to defend myself.
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Crow of Ryuzoji
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2008, 05:36:47 pm »

I do some Tae Kwon Do though I've just started practicing parkour. I say it's a good combination, if the fighting fails you can always make a daring escape by jumping and climbing over things your antagonist would have to otherwise go around.
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dr490nw4rri0r
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2008, 10:27:27 pm »

I suppose if one were to imagine the proper way to do battle in the steampunk universe, it would depend on the various ideas.

Air pirates would likely fight similarly to the pirates of the days of old. Come out swinging and shooting, and generally pay little attention to whether or not you kill anything. the idea is more to scare someone into submission and rob them blind rather than slaughter them.

Military would likely rely more on distance tactics. Rifles and the like. Up close the fighting would likely be alot less frenetic and far more straitlaced and disciplined, which I imagine would rather take the fun out of it.

As for manuals one should read, depending on sword types, you should pick up
The swordsman's companion by Guy Windsor
Medeival art of swordsmanship by Dr. Jeffrey Forgeng
The Duellist's Companion by Guy Winsor(focuses on rapiers, a ninteenth century standard. Some forms also work well with the cutlass/sabre)
Highland Swordsmanship by Mark Rector(teaches discipline and form with backswords/broadswords, dirks, etc. My personal favorite)
Sword in two hands by Brian R Price.(Forms focusing on two handed swords used with armor)
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2008, 11:29:29 pm »

I agree, Air Pirates should fight like pirates of the "good" old days, but there is more terrorrizing and frightening the crews which were targeted by them. There is nothing good in killing a crew which can be robbed again.
Play of muscels is the better choice in this case.

But when thinking of fight like steampunk, there are many stereotypes.
The Gentleman - Should have style. Prefering a classical duel with pistols or swords. If no other choice, it has to have a bit of style and should not look like a brutal fighter. Keep in the rules.

The  Adventurist - Can he choose the situation? Take a look on Indiana Jones, using the proper weapon if possible, otherwise use everything you can. Sometimes fight dirty, or get a run. Okay, it's better to be a coward than dead. On the other side, has to be brave in rescue actions. Hm, sounds like classical action hero? Perhaps that's the point.

The Western Gunslinger - Not to much to say about. Shooting guy, with to much ammo. Doesn't shoot in the back of anyone - of course if he is the bad guy there is nor reason to fight fair. And fight with fists in saloons.

Mad Scientists - All right. Usually they should not fight personal. Sometimes the "inventions" fight for them. And is this not worse enough for everyone else? No? Okay, there could be mercenaries or other helpers by their side.


And yes, these are just stereotypes(!). Take it this way, or not. I think everyone has his own pictures in mind. In the end there should be more than just copies of copies of copies...


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dr490nw4rri0r
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« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2008, 02:41:51 am »

How about hand to hand combat, without blades or guns?
How would a steampunk fistfight work compared to a modern fistfight?
Granted, modern fistfights are more often than not simply a couple of idiots smacking and shoving each other.
How would one bring gadgetry into this? Gloves that shock on contact? Rings packing Aethereal energies? Energy focusing(something I use myself. you know what it is if you're at all familiar with eastern martial arts)? Perhaps some kind of extendable hand mechanism in place of someone's actual hands(for an amputee for example)?
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Dax
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2008, 03:51:32 am »

+ I couldn't grasp the concept of hitting lightly. I'm much too... indelicate for fencing, I guess. I'm a boffer/dagorhir kind of guy.

Sounds like you had foil and not epee or sabre. In sabre, the basic idea is to hit your opponent in the head as hard as possible (that's what most sabre matches boil down to, anyway), whereas epee is not quite as aggressive, but still not as nancy-pants as foil.

Well, foil teaches you how to fence.  I don't think you can really get proficient at sabre or epee until you've gotten a basic grounding in foil. 

And yes, getting hit with an epee HURTS. 
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Samuel
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2008, 03:52:01 am »

How about hand to hand combat, without blades or guns?
How would a steampunk fistfight work compared to a modern fistfight?
Granted, modern fistfights are more often than not simply a couple of idiots smacking and shoving each other.
How would one bring gadgetry into this? Gloves that shock on contact? Rings packing Aethereal energies? Energy focusing(something I use myself. you know what it is if you're at all familiar with eastern martial arts)? Perhaps some kind of extendable hand mechanism in place of someone's actual hands(for an amputee for example)?

I daresay i would fill the top of my top hat with lead, then dispatch you while bowing to each other Smiley

look to fullmetal Alchemist for interesting prosthetics, called automail.

when it comes to focusing ki, i don't think people really have the chance to fully utilize it (prior to combat) unless it was a set bout.
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Dax
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« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2008, 04:03:31 am »

I am going to starting fencing classes tomorrow evening.

Excellent!  I took up the sport a couple of years ago.  I'm in a local tournament in a couple of weeks, just to see whether I've improved in electric foil.  I'm not expecting much, but it should be fun.
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dr490nw4rri0r
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« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2008, 04:05:17 am »

I'm a natural energy worker. I find channelling energy to be second nature. Now of course, I lack the practise to do that much damage, but I've been known on the odd occasion to send someone halfway across the room with a flick of the wrist(even I'm not completely sure how i put that much force into a hit).

I find the mention of automail interesting. It's the only thing I actually LIKED about that anime.
I wonder if it would be possible to surgically alter a person in a way that would make something similar to automail possible. I mean, we already have ways to implant computer chips in our body. why not circuits to transfer the energy that would normally control a tendon to the energy that would control a mechanical circuit?

Also, on the subject of swordsmanship, my preferred form is a lack thereof. for one thing it leaves you open to any possible situation, and for another thing I trust my own inborn reactions far more than drilled in doctrine.
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Hedgehogey
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2008, 06:07:41 am »

I do Nipponese Trick Wrestling under the Fighting Gracie Brothers. They were taught by the esteemed Mitsuyo Maeda:

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Atterton
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2008, 10:08:45 am »

I started doing Wing Tsun a while ago, they refer to that as being without acrobatic tricks, just pure efficiency. Which is what I wanted. Escrima might also be good if you want to learn how to fight with a walking cane.
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anachronism
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2008, 10:41:37 am »

How about hand to hand combat, without blades or guns?
How would a steampunk fistfight work compared to a modern fistfight?
Granted, modern fistfights are more often than not simply a couple of idiots smacking and shoving each other.
How would one bring gadgetry into this? Gloves that shock on contact? Rings packing Aethereal energies? Energy focusing(something I use myself. you know what it is if you're at all familiar with eastern martial arts)? Perhaps some kind of extendable hand mechanism in place of someone's actual hands(for an amputee for example)?

Wow, sounds cool, and I feel reminded in Streetsamurais. Extreme Speed in parts of fight with heavy punches  swirling like a kind of tornado.
That offers a lot of options in fighting. Speed, High Jumps, running on walls a bit like matrix. Okay, and what was the name of this bad clockwork guy in Hellboy? Would this be the perfect example? Or is it just to heavy and extreme? At least it's an option.
Same base of quickness, secret weapons which are available and not as easy to stop.

Talking about Ki has some more ideas. Perhaps this leads us to the classical eastern movies. Supernatural abilies gained through handcrafted artefacts...
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Atterton
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2008, 11:09:43 am »

It fits into my desire for some eastern steampunk, with technology based about chi and other chinese concepts. Imagine a glove which can load up chi to ridiculous degrees, and so can punch through everything.
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« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2008, 11:21:00 am »

I started doing Wing Tsun a while ago, they refer to that as being without acrobatic tricks, just pure efficiency. Which is what I wanted. Escrima might also be good if you want to learn how to fight with a walking cane.

I'm a fan of wing chung too, its like a more stylish version of boxing, incidentially I have a really old fashioned style book by AJ Newton which I think has a lot of kitsch/steam style about it, its a really early guide to boxing (aparently it was also one of Bruce Lee's favourite books when he decided he wanted to create a cross between eastern and western fighting styles)
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Bajaro
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2008, 04:14:02 pm »

I started doing Wing Tsun a while ago, they refer to that as being without acrobatic tricks, just pure efficiency. Which is what I wanted. Escrima might also be good if you want to learn how to fight with a walking cane.

Escrima/Arnis is a good way to go with leaning how to fight with a walking cane. I've been practicing for years and it just keeps getting better for me. It has a lot of similarities with singlestick fighting in both movements and progression. I think this is why some modern medievalists look at Arnis to fill in gaps in knowledge.

Different Arnis schools also have different ways of presenting themselves. There are those whose image closely resembles Krav Maga in generally being nigh thug-like in their practices. And as with the general observation with Krav Maga, these clubs to attract the dodgy types.

There are also Arnis schools that see themselves as gentlemanly fighters using an ellegant weapon for a more civilized time. These clubs genrally attract hobbyist who are there to learn a new way of moving (much like a dance) rather than to train for fighting.

A lot fall somewhere in between.
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Hyren von Henry
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2008, 05:45:20 pm »

+ I couldn't grasp the concept of hitting lightly. I'm much too... indelicate for fencing, I guess. I'm a boffer/dagorhir kind of guy.

Sounds like you had foil and not epee or sabre. In sabre, the basic idea is to hit your opponent in the head as hard as possible (that's what most sabre matches boil down to, anyway), whereas epee is not quite as aggressive, but still not as nancy-pants as foil.

Well, foil teaches you how to fence.  I don't think you can really get proficient at sabre or epee until you've gotten a basic grounding in foil. 

And yes, getting hit with an epee HURTS. 


I fence sabre, and let me tell you, its a hell of alot diffrent to foil or epee. you can't "hit" (its called hacking and i get told off for it all to often) with it, more a flick with the wrist, but there is alot of jumping around to try and get a height advantage  Cheesy

epee hurts more than sabre.

foil = wussy

(sorry foilists!)
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von Adler
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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2008, 06:18:02 pm »

Regarding fencing: I've only ever fenced with steel, or however the saying goes in English: fencing with only steel blades, no electronics attached. That way, the rather ridiculous practises you get in competetive fencing (wrist flicks, suicide lunges, etc.) serve no purpose; the only hits we counted were the ones that hurt plenty. Regrettably, my fencing partner moved and I as unable to continue this on this course, otherwise I might have purchased a sabre blade and attached it to a rapier handle (like my partner had) and continued to practise fencing that way. We also allowed kicking and hand defences, so what we practised wasn't sport fencing at all, more like what ARMA teaches.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2008, 06:48:40 pm »

Talhoffer style longsword fencing. Nice stuff if you know your way. I'd still like to learn Italian style rapier and dagger stuff.
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rogue-z
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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2008, 06:56:51 pm »

My favorite part about fencing with epee was the whole body target. Sure getting stabbed in the foot won't kill you, but it'll sure slow you down. On the other hand, saber was much more dynamic in it's range of moves. That was my favorite, but I never did get around to buying my own gear. I did foil too, it was just the most common. People did look at me askance though, I had this beat up old Conan shirt I'd always where. Gives you an idea how I fenced. That and a collection of broken and bent foils.

I watched some Human Weapon clips on Savate, and it was pretty cool. Worth checking out. I liked that show. Too bad it's in limbo.

I did some westernized kick boxing too, and that seemed like it was pretty straight forward. It was taught by a MMA type of guy, so it wasn't much on the philosophy beyond, kick them here and it'll hurt 'em, and punches are fast and easy, but his point was, most of the time it comes down to grappling.

A steampunk fight I would hope would have more style than a MMA type brawl. Those just look ugly. Incorporating the steam tech into it would be very interesting.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2008, 07:09:09 pm »

Look here...
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von Adler
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« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2008, 07:15:13 pm »

Talhoffer style longsword fencing. Nice stuff if you know your way. I'd still like to learn Italian style rapier and dagger stuff.

Damn distances. We both live in Europe, yet so far away... I'd like to learn dagger & blade and buckler & blade as well.
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Glass
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« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2008, 08:27:32 pm »

I take Brasilian JuJitsu. I get beat up in class all the time.


It hurts.


Patrick
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AlexanderTheArcane
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« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2008, 08:56:51 pm »

+ I couldn't grasp the concept of hitting lightly. I'm much too... indelicate for fencing, I guess. I'm a boffer/dagorhir kind of guy.

Sounds like you had foil and not epee or sabre. In sabre, the basic idea is to hit your opponent in the head as hard as possible (that's what most sabre matches boil down to, anyway), whereas epee is not quite as aggressive, but still not as nancy-pants as foil.

Well, foil teaches you how to fence.  I don't think you can really get proficient at sabre or epee until you've gotten a basic grounding in foil. 

And yes, getting hit with an epee HURTS. 


I fence sabre, and let me tell you, its a hell of alot diffrent to foil or epee. you can't "hit" (its called hacking and i get told off for it all to often) with it, more a flick with the wrist, but there is alot of jumping around to try and get a height advantage  Cheesy

epee hurts more than sabre.

foil = wussy

(sorry foilists!)

Height advantage, eh? I'm six foot four. =)
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dr490nw4rri0r
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« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2008, 09:36:46 pm »

ach. all this talk about rapiers makes me queasy.

If you're going to take the time to learn a sword form, use a real sword, not a knitting needle!
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Dax
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« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2008, 11:56:56 pm »

+ I couldn't grasp the concept of hitting lightly. I'm much too... indelicate for fencing, I guess. I'm a boffer/dagorhir kind of guy.

Sounds like you had foil and not epee or sabre. In sabre, the basic idea is to hit your opponent in the head as hard as possible (that's what most sabre matches boil down to, anyway), whereas epee is not quite as aggressive, but still not as nancy-pants as foil.

Well, foil teaches you how to fence.  I don't think you can really get proficient at sabre or epee until you've gotten a basic grounding in foil. 

And yes, getting hit with an epee HURTS. 


I fence sabre, and let me tell you, its a hell of alot diffrent to foil or epee. you can't "hit" (its called hacking and i get told off for it all to often) with it, more a flick with the wrist, but there is alot of jumping around to try and get a height advantage  Cheesy

epee hurts more than sabre.

foil = wussy

(sorry foilists!)

Height advantage, eh? I'm six foot four. =)

Just a bigger target. Smiley

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