The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
April 27, 2018, 09:47:46 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Brassgoggles.co.uk - The Lighter Side Of Steampunk, follow @brasstech for forum technical problems & updates.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Burlap-Crete : Alternate materials for simple yet strong Steamy Buildings  (Read 676 times)
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« on: January 03, 2018, 10:21:07 am »

As I promised over here: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,49027.msg988660.html#msg988660

A growing number of folks are pursuing different fast but strong building techniques for sheds, walls, roofs, and dwellings
using concrete and some alternative materials.

I first saw this in a news article about this commercial product: https://www.concretecanvas.com/cc-shelters

However, soaking and coating fabric with concrete really is not all that complicated!

here are a few links describing the use of fabric-crete and many DIY links to making and using a thin-shelled concrete-and-fabric based
wall or roof:

Here is a Fabric/Latex/Concrete roof:  http://www.instructables.com/id/Latex-Concrete-Roof/

here is their main page wth many alternative construction methods http://velacreations.com/articles/shelter/

freeform concrete fabric :  https://www.concretedecor.net/decorativeconcretearticles/vol-13-no-1-janfeb-2013/free-form-fabric-forming/

covering a metal-frame house 2 sq feet at a time:  https://annesley.wordpress.com/burlap-crete-explained/

burlap-crete fence, shower, gate and a dirt cheap mortar sprayer! This guy is creative, practical, and frugal!
he also has links to papercrete and other intersting stuff
http://papercreteparadise.blogspot.com/search/label/burlap-crete

thin-shell construction using a sprayer
https://www.mortarsprayer.com/thin-shell-construction/nggallery/slideshow

yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium

Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions and Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 05:47:55 pm »

But dear Prof Marvel.

Why is this posted in Anatomical? Unless you plan to make a concrete burlap suit, or bustle skirt... I won't go into corsetry  Roll Eyes or concrete shoes...

Perhaps this topic belongs to Tactile?
Logged

Madasasteamfish
A clanger waiting to be dropped......
Board Moderator
Rogue Ætherlord
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom


09madasafish
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 11:02:14 pm »

But dear Prof Marvel.

Why is this posted in Anatomical? Unless you plan to make a concrete burlap suit, or bustle skirt... I won't go into corsetry  Roll Eyes or concrete shoes...

Perhaps this topic belongs to Tactile?

Agreed, any objections?

Although, more on topic the technique seems to be almost identical to that of the plaster bandage method used in model railways.
Logged

I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."
von Corax
Squire of the Lambda Calculus
Moderator
Immortal
*
Canada Canada

Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 12:51:38 am »

Agreed. I herewith claim this thread in the name of Tactility.
Logged

By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5838 km from Reading
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 02:43:00 am »

I plead temporary insnaity!

or a crime of passion.

temporary passionate insanity?

yhs
prof marvel
Logged
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 05:13:19 am »

I plead temporary insnaity!

or a crime of passion.

temporary passionate insanity?

yhs
prof marvel

I've seen this before. Unbridled love of concrete. Some think it's genetic, with generations of concrete lovers appearing to be normal architects and civil engineers. They seem normal, but they hide a dark secret. I know because I had several members of my family in those professions, which are in fact the perfect way to mask the illness. It's asymptomatic at first, in their 20s and 30s. But in the latter stages it can be deadly. Once I saw someone at the public works department prepare a Portland cement smoothie...  Cheesy
Logged
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 09:18:30 am »


I've seen this before. Unbridled love of concrete. Some think it's genetic, with generations of concrete lovers appearing to be normal architects and civil engineers. They seem normal, but they hide a dark secret. I know because I had several members of my family in those professions, which are in fact the perfect way to mask the illness. It's asymptomatic at first, in their 20s and 30s. But in the latter stages it can be deadly. Once I saw someone at the public works department prepare a Portland cement smoothie...  Cheesy


Hmmmmm ..... genetic ? or geriatric?

yes, I fear I have a passion for playing with mud, clay, concrete, ceramics, sculpy, "metal clay" ....  

Meanwhile, as previously mentioned, I intend to use this method for 3 items:

1) an adobe-look wall across the front of the property,rather  like this:




2)  a cellar floor aka "rat slab" - this is a non-load bearing floor designed to keep mice,rats, bugs and other digging critters out of the crawlspace.  
     I had hoped to "hire it done" and have the fellow  use 2x2's to "terrace" the slope, and just pour a whole cement truck ( 10 cubicyards)
     with a Self-Leveling additive from the top, to just flow all over and down and over each terracce, and provide the 2" thick floor. But it gets 
     more complicated....  
     So the new plan is to hire the leveling and pour of the first two main lowest levels, then use DIY burlap-cement to cover the rest of the dirt...
     a little at a time ....

The first layer will be concrete-soaked fabric, such as a cheap open weave canvas or burlap.
Or possibly cheap open-weave blankets from the thrift store. Or even cheap rolls of fiberglass windowscreen.
If several more layers of concrete are slathered over the top, the entire mess should become stiff enough to walk on  and use for light storage.


3) If the fake adobe walls work and hold up well, I will then use the stuff as an exterior skin on another outbuilding I want to put up
 ( county permit will read "garage" - but it will be shop/artspace/ guest sleeping ). The intent is strong fire and weather proof DIY exterior
 easier than stucco.

The issue is to come up with a reliable formula....

some folks make a soupy mix of concrete and soak thick fabric, even old carpets. apparently a lot of experimentation is req'd.

some folks use various concrete blends

some folks use "one coat" stucco mixes

this guy
https://annesley.wordpress.com/vaulted-dome-roof-project/

was going to use burlap/concrete on his vaulted dome, but "chickened out"  ( I do *not* blame him) and I will quote him:

"The material I have begun applying to the roof structure is high strength, non corrosive, non shrinking grout modified
with 3 ounces of chopped PVA (poly vinyl acetate) fiber per 50 pound bag (dry weight). The reason I’ve gone with this
option is that I can afford to purchase the grout piece meal, and have found that when wetted down, cold joints blend
well without cracking. On a small test structure I found I could use this material in much thinner application than
traditional ferrocement, and can control the stiffness of the mix to allow placement on the steepest sections of the
roof without it sloughing off- at the base of some of the arches the angle approaches 90 degrees. It is hoisted in five
gallon buckets to the roof through the openings for the cupolas using an electric winch, and the material is poured out
upon the mesh and worked with a gloved hand. "

I myself tried an experiment with portland cement, sand, and lime, on burlap, but it did not work out, turning all powdery and falling apart.

these folks https://annesley.wordpress.com/burlap-crete-explained/  had the same problem so they used this:  
Rapid Set 55 lb. Cement All Multi-Purpose Construction Material  ~ $22 per 55 pound bag

some folks like this:  Rapid Set 50 lb. Stucco Mix  ~ $15 per 50 pounds

I have had good luck on cinder block and rigid foam with with quikcrete QUIKWALL® Surface Bonding Cement -
 you can lay a block wall "dry" ( ie with no mortar) then stucco the wall on both sides with Quikwall and it is  stronger
than a mortared wall, nearly as strong as a poured concrete wall.

here is a link to a how-to

https://www.quikrete.com/pdfs/projects/mortarlessblockconstructionwithquikwall.pdf

here are some further reference links -I need to experiment with these ideas:

Learn how to build a lightweight roof out of burlap, cement and acrylic.
Ever heard of ferrocement roofs made with burlap instead of wire mesh?
http://www.naturalbuildingblog.com/burlapcement-rain-fly-roof/

here, the basic process involves building a wood or bamboo frame, stretching nylon plaster mesh over the frame and stapling in place,
and then coating the roof on both sides with a slurry of Portland cement and latex/acrylic mix.
http://www.naturalbuildingblog.com/hypar-roofs/

I think I need to get more info on the mix... especially as there seems to be a lot of argument about adding latex paint to concrete mix or
making you own concrete with portland cement, sand, latex paint, etcetc.

yhs
prof marvel
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 09:25:25 am by Prof Marvel » Logged
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 09:20:37 am »

Although, more on topic the technique seems to be almost identical to that of the plaster bandage method used in model railways.

Absolutely correct, but using  stronger more weather--proof material on amuch larger scale

yhs
prof marvel
Logged
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2018, 09:45:21 am »


this guy
https://annesley.wordpress.com/vaulted-dome-roof-project/

was going to use burlap/concrete on his vaulted dome, but "chickened out"  ( I do *not* blame him)



People with real skill will recognise that a dome will work under compression with any material able to stand compression and thus all you need is to set stones or brick with cement and let gravity do all the work. Of course, this will never pass regulations in any state in the United States, unless it's a non-load bearing decorative brick surface with sundry galvanised steel ties attached at intervals to a "real structure" like knotty, sappy, bendy, termite ridden and moldy, pine stud frame held with one or two nails shot with a nail gun (as most American state's residential regulations call for).

You need to see the video all through the end. Note this is not a true Catalan dome, there is a specific herringbone brick pattern that makes a real Catalan dome, but structurally you are meaking a dome first just held together by compression forces and a little cement in between bricks. the structure becomes more stable once you cover the exterior in reinforced cconcrete, thus giving 100% uniformity in the stress distribution on the roof. It is in fact quite structurally sound. #skillslostinthefirstworld

Awesome Construction of catalan domes and vaults
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:16:00 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
SeVeNeVeS
Immortal
**
England England



« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2018, 01:07:16 pm »

Cordwood construction and or Bottle wall, a combination of the two, could add a little light and different texture.
Logged

Hektor Plasm
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


All-Round Oddfellow.


WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 11:43:06 am »

Aha! This sounds like a rather more permanent version of the old plaster cast for broken bones.
Perhaps useful to apply 'concrete overshoes' to those who are destined to sleep with the fishes...

 Cheesy

HP
Logged

"all die! o, the embarrassment."
H Plasm Esq. ICUE    Avatar by and with kind permission of Dr Geof. Ta!!

Some musings:-
http://hektorplasm.blogspot.co.uk/
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 08:26:37 pm »

Aha! This sounds like a rather more permanent version of the old plaster cast for broken bones.
Perhaps useful to apply 'concrete overshoes' to those who are destined to sleep with the fishes...

 Cheesy

HP

Complimentary garments provided to gangsters who are visiting the New York harbour. I hear the "Michael Corleone" tourist package is one of the most popular. In fact they say that visitors like the harbour so much they tend to stay and never leave!
Logged
Peter Brassbeard
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States



« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 02:05:59 am »

Fabric reinforced concrete should be structurally very sound, at least until the fabric starts to decay.  Lifespan of burlap encased in concrete is a question.  Fiberglass concrete may be far more certain for long term structures.
Logged
Fairley B. Strange
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Relax, I've done much dumber things and survived..


WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 06:43:37 am »

The WW2 coastal artillery bunkers on Magnetic Island - offshore from Townsville Queensland Australia - were camouglaged with concrete-cloth to blend in with the local rock outcrops.
I can recall seeing the battered remains in the late 1980s, so it seemed to last about 40 years in tropical storms etc without any maintenance.
I tried googling for images but the outer layers were removed in the 90s by the Rangers for visitor safety.
Logged

Choose a code to live by, die by it if you have to.
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 11:16:38 am »

The WW2 coastal artillery bunkers on Magnetic Island - offshore from Townsville Queensland Australia - were camouglaged with concrete-cloth to blend in with the local rock outcrops.
I can recall seeing the battered remains in the late 1980s, so it seemed to last about 40 years in tropical storms etc without any maintenance.
I tried googling for images but the outer layers were removed in the 90s by the Rangers for visitor safety.

Magnetic Island sounds like a James Bond villain's hideout  Cheesy

Wiki:
Quote
The name of the island came about because of the apparent "magnetic" effect it had on the ship's compass of Captain Cook as he passed the island when sailing up the east coast of Australia in 1770.[3] People have since explored the general area of Magnetic Island with various instruments to discover what might have caused the effect that Cook reported, but nothing has been discovered. The island's mysterious magnetic effect is the basis for the 2015 speculative fiction novel 'A Tango with the Dragon.' The local name for the island is "Maggie Isle",[4] "Maggie Island",[5] or "The Island"
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:19:16 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.308 seconds with 15 queries.