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Author Topic: The Military Uniform Thread  (Read 269 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« on: December 04, 2017, 10:43:08 pm »

As I have been researching military uniforms of the 19th. C. I have found a number of fantastic sites where one can take a look at reproductions, or illustrations of uniforms. While I'm no expert at it, there seem to be many folks around the globa who have a passion for the subject.  I've decided to open this thread, so that we, as a forum, may collectively deposit links and illustrations that could be helpful to the Steampunk dresser...

One of my favourite sites for American militaria is the website supported by the Arizona Reenactors' Association, ushist.com, this site not only has images of military and civilian apparel reproductions, but they also sell those reproductions



And Pinterest has turned out to be a trasure trove, if nothing else because apparently it is the preferred method for re-enactors and game designers to catalogue their historical illustration plates. Name any war in history, you'll find a huge collection of art related to it already classified for you:

Two Pinterest users who have impressive collections:

Beerdom (illustration from any historical period classified by period or specific conflict):


Foster Wood (this one has also 19th. C photos):

\


Other resources outside of Pinterest:

Anything you wanted to know about German-style Pickelhaube helmets, including German-made Pickelhaubes with pictures from other countries as in the uniforms worn in Latin America.

Mexican Army, German made Pickelhaube, circa 1910
http://www.pickelhauben.net/pickelhaube.htm



I hope you fine ladies and gentlemen can find more resources and post them here  Grin

Cheers,

JW
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 01:14:04 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 05:07:24 am »



  What an excellent idea for a thread   my good man!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 12:12:11 am »

Now, this is interesting for its Steampunk value.

This is a Prussian protective helmet for flamethrower operators. Note the Prussian Coat of Arms' eagle holding the Prussian Crown Jewels of Frederick I (eagle-tipped scepter and orb with cross). At the time the Kingdom of Prussia was part of the German Empire (1871-1918) under Kaiser Wilhelm II. The helmet must belong to a later period between 1901 and then end of WWI. More likely belongs to the period 1914-1918. Unknown image source.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 12:36:46 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 02:52:45 am »

  Forgive me for saying, but that helmet looks quite dangerous.  It would heat up to a blistering  beyond endurance  temperature  if events went horribly wrong.    Misdirected flames could get in under your bonnet and be near impossible to put out before immolation occured
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 04:53:09 am »

  Forgive me for saying, but that helmet looks quite dangerous.  It would heat up to a blistering  beyond endurance  temperature  if events went horribly wrong.    Misdirected flames could get in under your bonnet and be near impossible to put out before immolation occured

I don't think anything could protect the operator from misdirected flames or events gone horribly wrong — if flames get under your bonnet they'd have to be coming off your body, which means you're already toast. That helmet would protect the operator from heat wash and fuel spatter, which might otherwise do as much damage to the operator as to the enemy.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 06:19:14 am »

 Forgive me for saying, but that helmet looks quite dangerous.  It would heat up to a blistering  beyond endurance  temperature  if events went horribly wrong.    Misdirected flames could get in under your bonnet and be near impossible to put out before immolation occured

I don't think anything could protect the operator from misdirected flames or events gone horribly wrong — if flames get under your bonnet they'd have to be coming off your body, which means you're already toast. That helmet would protect the operator from heat wash and fuel spatter, which might otherwise do as much damage to the operator as to the enemy.

There's something else: pure (infrared) heat radiation, regardless of where the flame is blown. That can be quite intense. I do agree the helmet would heat up, but the alternative is direct intense infrared exposure to the skin. It must be noted that the helmet and front mask is made from leather and not metal. That may temporarily insulate the skin from conductive heat between the surface of the mask and the interior surface of the leather (presumably with an extra layer of insulation (
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 06:20:47 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Miranda.T
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 01:42:11 pm »

That is absolutely 100% real-world steampunk - thank you for posting up the picture.

Yours,
Miranda.
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morozow
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2017, 03:38:52 pm »

I can't say for sure. But it is believed that it is the mask of the firefighter.
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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2017, 07:44:55 pm »

I can't say for sure. But it is believed that it is the mask of the firefighter.

That would make sense too, and reinforces the idea that the helmet is meant as protection from radiative heat. But was the Prussian Eagle also used in firefighter uniforms?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 07:52:48 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 07:50:04 pm »

That is absolutely 100% real-world steampunk - thank you for posting up the picture.

Yours,
Miranda.

Well it certainly gives me useful costume ideas for "The Valkyrie and the Eagle". I'm starting to see what high altitude respirator headgear could look like. This is a Prussian style. The Austrian style would probably look like the "Greco-Roman" crested helmets of cuirassiers used by French forces. So we can extrapolate the helmets for the rival Prussian and Austrian Luftschiffengel.


There are so many interesting ideas, that we can gather from the 1880-1918 period. There was an evolutionary process about the late 19th C. uniforms. For example look at this "experimental pickelhaube" for Bavaria's Alpine troops, designed to provide reatractible ear protection for the cold weather. Imagine the same helmet but lined with much warmer fabric or leather/fur. A measure of history plus practicality can start making believable anachronistic uniforms


A number of changes have to be considered. For example, uniforms worn aboard airships should not involve spiked helmets. Not necessarily because of the danger of envelope pucture, but for electrostatic reasons - the gas bags would be filled with hydrogen, and anything that could concentrate elctrical charges and create a spark is a definite no-no...

On the other hand I think that a white fur and beige suede finished pickelhaube with a large brass double headed eagle (Austria) and paired with aviator goggles would simply look fantastic.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:48:56 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Miranda.T
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2017, 12:00:40 am »

That is absolutely 100% real-world steampunk - thank you for posting up the picture.

Yours,
Miranda.

Well it certainly gives me useful costume ideas for "The Valkyrie and the Eagle". I'm starting to see what high altitude respirator headgear could look like. This is a Prussian style. The Austrian style would probably look like the "Greco-Roman" crested helmets of cuirassiers used by French forces. So we can extrapolate the helmets for the rival Prussian and Austrian Luftschiffengel.


There are so many interesting ideas, that we can gather from the 1880-1918 period. There was an evolutionary process about the late 19th C. uniforms. For example look at this "experimental pickelhaube" for Bavaria's Alpine troops, designed to provide reatractible ear protection for the cold weather. Imagine the same helmet but lined with much warmer fabric or leather/fur. A measure of history plus practicality can start making believable anachronistic uniforms


A number of changes have to be considered. For example, uniforms worn aboard airships should not involve spiked helmets. Not necessarily because of the danger of envelope pucture, but for electrostatic reasons - the gas bags would be filled with hydrogen, and anything that could concentrate elctrical charges and create a spark is a definite no-no...

On the other hand I think that a white fur and beige suede finished pickelhaube with a large brass double headed eagle (Austria) and paired with aviator goggles would simply look fantastic.

The fur and suede sounds like a great idea, and, depending on the design, will match in perfectly with the gender-blending theme of your uniform.

Yours,
Miranda.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 12:31:28 am »

*snip*

The fur and suede sounds like a great idea, and, depending on the design, will match in perfectly with the gender-blending theme of your uniform.

Yours,
Miranda.

This is what it looks unfurled from one side. The exterior would be the sueded side of lambs skin, with the white wool facing the interior, so when it folds up you have a white fur band around a brown suede. Pickelhaubes were normally made from leather anyway. The wool would double as the lining for the helmet. When you fold it, the cap would show both colours/texrtures. Pair it with a pair of brass aviator goggles.  This'd be if not an easy project, a very interesting one. It will be very hard to find Austrian/Prussian eagles, but if this were an American hat, there are plenty or brass reproductions available. The American version would be black and brown (black sheep  Cheesy). The Austrian white and brown

« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 12:42:47 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Miranda.T
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 11:53:37 am »

(snip)

It will be very hard to find Austrian/Prussian eagles...

(snip)

If you have a 3D printshop nearby (and of course can find or make a 3D model for the crest) could one be printed up?

Yours,
Miranda.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 10:15:52 pm »

(snip)

It will be very hard to find Austrian/Prussian eagles...

(snip)

If you have a 3D printshop nearby (and of course can find or make a 3D model for the crest) could one be printed up?

Yours,
Miranda.

That's one possibility. I think I'll open a new Anatomical thread on it. It's worth a look at Aliexpress again. There's a number of faux and real pelt caps, aviator caps with similar features. Also on Google I found a hard hat (worker's plastic helmet) which is covered in fabric and looks like a baseball cap. It nearly has the ideal Pickelhaube proportions.


Edit :

Ha, ha ha! Never mind, there are plastic replicas available  Cheesy though I'd probably look at something a bit better.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13782429394597802314

« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:28:10 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2017, 08:16:21 am »



 What ever the story, these helmets are fabulous. Not merely protection, they are  also quite sinister  and fear inducing
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 02:28:33 am »

(snip)

It will be very hard to find Austrian/Prussian eagles...

(snip)


If you have a 3D printshop nearby (and of course can find or make a 3D model for the crest) could one be printed up?

Yours,
Miranda.


What ever the story, these helmets are fabulous. Not merely protection, they are  also quite sinister  and fear inducing


I've started a new thread for the next project: a Cold weather Pickelhaube, to allow this thread to continue pure historical (not histerical) analysis. I can start looking at these issues the usual way, by virtual simulation; Here's a preview of that thread:

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,49464.0.html

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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 11:36:04 am »

I can't say for sure. But it is believed that it is the mask of the firefighter.

I read that this is not a helmet flamethrower. But unfortunately, there was no justification why.

Yes. Eagle all the "spoils". Like, conventional fire helmets was not an eagle as the emblem of the brigade.

But it's not just the helmet. This is similar to the apparatus for breathing system "Koenig" (or something similar). Please note, at the bottom there are pipes, they can serve to connect the hose with air.


P.S. Pickelhaube - Invented by Russian Tsar Nicholas I, along with the court painter of the L. I. Kiel. On the basis of Russian cuirassier helmet and ancient helmet. She was inducted into the army under the designation the designation "helmet. 1844".

But in 1837, during a friendly visit by Prince Carl of Prussia (younger brother of Frederick William IV) Nicholas I gave the guest the first option of the future "helmets. 1844". It has served as the Foundation for Prussian helmet.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 08:59:33 pm »

I can't say for sure. But it is believed that it is the mask of the firefighter.

I read that this is not a helmet flamethrower. But unfortunately, there was no justification why.

Yes. Eagle all the "spoils". Like, conventional fire helmets was not an eagle as the emblem of the brigade.

But it's not just the helmet. This is similar to the apparatus for breathing system "Koenig" (or something similar). Please note, at the bottom there are pipes, they can serve to connect the hose with air.


P.S. Pickelhaube - Invented by Russian Tsar Nicholas I, along with the court painter of the L. I. Kiel. On the basis of Russian cuirassier helmet and ancient helmet. She was inducted into the army under the designation the designation "helmet. 1844".

But in 1837, during a friendly visit by Prince Carl of Prussia (younger brother of Frederick William IV) Nicholas I gave the guest the first option of the future "helmets. 1844". It has served as the Foundation for Prussian helmet.



You're right on the history. That is very interesting

Prussian Infantry wearing Pickelhauben 1845

From Wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube
Quote
Origins
The Pickelhaube was originally designed in 1842 by King Frederick William IV of Prussia, perhaps as a copy of similar helmets that were adopted at the same time by the Russian military. It is not clear whether this was a case of imitation, parallel invention, or if both were based on the earlier Napoleonic cuirassier. The early Russian type (known as "The Helmet of Yaroslav Mudry") was also used by cavalry, which had used the spike as a holder for a horsehair plume in full dress, a practice also followed with some Prussian models (see below).


There is an awful lot of Steampunk inspiration in Fire brigades, and their equipment in the 19th. C. I wouldn't be surprised if I used elements of that in my "high altitude" suit.

You can buy reproductions of brass firemen helmets from India on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Collectible-Brass-Victorian-Fireman-Fire-Brigade-Officer-Helmet-Wearable-Helmet/381432757797

On the Pickelhaube history: Wow. Thank you for posting; that is a fantastic example. You can see connections to the British Pith Helmet as well - look at that spike! It looks like it could use a light bulb. Grin

Wiki Pith Helmet:

Quote
19th-century origins[edit]

Design for an army helmet, as worn in British India, 1858.
Crude forms of pith helmet had existed as early as the 1840s, but it was around 1870 that the pith helmet became popular with military personnel in Europe's tropical colonies. The Franco-Prussian War had popularized the German Pickelhaube, which may have influenced the distinctive design of the pith helmet. Such developments may have merged with a traditional design from the Philippines, the salakot. The alternative name salacot (also written salakhoff) appears frequently in Spanish and French sources; it comes from the Tagalog word salacsac (modern orthography: salaksak). During the Philippine-American War, President Emilio Aguinaldo and the Philippine Revolutionary Army used to wear the pith helmet borrowed from the Spaniards alongside the straw hat and the native salakot.

British journalist and explorer Sir Henry Morton Stanley, wearing a pith helmet, ca. 1872

A simultaneous development to the Pith Helmet was the Grey Home Service Helmet:

Quote
Home Service helmet[edit]

Grey Home Service helmet (Northumberland Fusiliers 1st Volunteer Battalion ) c.1883.
At the same time, a similar helmet (of dark blue cloth over cork and incorporating a bronze spike) had been proposed for use in non-tropical areas. The British Army formally adopted this headgear, which they called the "Home Service Helmet", in 1878 (leading to the retirement of the shako). Most British line infantry (with the exception of fusiliers regiments) wore the helmet until 1902, when khaki Service Dress was introduced. It was also worn by engineers, artillery (with ball rather than spike) and various administrative and other corps (again with ball rather than spike). The cloth of the helmet was generally dark blue in colour, but a green version was worn by light infantry regiments and grey by several volunteer units.
With the general adoption of khaki for field dress in 1903, the helmet became purely a full dress item, being worn as such until 1914.

Grey Home Service helmet for Northumberland Fusiliers ca.1883

This also inspired American uniforms. The result was the US Army Dress Service Helmet something similar (but not quite the same) to the British Service Helmet. Note the visor has a different shape and while the helmet is tall, the helmet is not as tall as the British types.

US Army Dress Service Helmet, style M1881, for Cavalry Parade. Modern reproduction.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 11:17:19 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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