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Author Topic: Stain, dye, and maybe ink  (Read 266 times)
rovingjack
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« on: September 20, 2017, 05:44:12 am »

sooo, I did this:

this is essentially salvaged iron acetate from somebody who was using vinegar to de-rust a part of a truck underbody in a giant plastic tub.

big rusty steel part, 20 gallons of vinegar, a week of soaking= rusty vinegar = Iron acetate.

Iron acetate apparently turns things with high levels of Tannins very nearly a solid black at full concentrations. I swatched a bit on an end cut from some red oak. four minutes later it was black with a touch of navy blue or violet under the right light conditions: The wood shop officer gave me some turned pieces of oak to soak in some of the solution and we will be cutting and or turning them again later to see how far it penetrates and what internal grains look like with it.

I then played with it on scraps of walnut (dark rich brown tones), cherry (dark rosey browns), maple (just kind of greyed it and made it look older), pine (made it look aged), fir (gave it a slightly charred outer surface look), some unknown slightly orange wood (it brought out some green tones  Shocked), Birch and Bass (sort of a slate grey with hints of blue to it), and balsa (kind of a speckled blueish black in a slightly blue off white background)... had a heck of a time tracking down a decent piece of unfinished bamboo to try, and by then it was too late to do today, so I'll have to wait to try that one.

I also tried dilussions of it which creates lighter staining.

after that I went and tried very dilute amounts (one row plain and the other having had oak soaking in it to introduce tannins) on white cotton. AS it's supposedly a dye and mordant for use in fabrics. Starting with just a bit of solution in plain water, increasing to straight solution, interestingly it goes on looking like water and dries without color, and then begins changing darker as time passes. The plain solution actually darkened first but the row with tannins kept going after the straight solution slowed or stopped darkening.

and finally I tried seeing how the solution with a bit of tannins might work as an ink. it goes on like water but gradually turns beige and gets darker. I think with a higher amount of tannins in it it should get much more dark, and I will have to fiddle with the recipe (and likely add some kind of thickener). I'm also trying to figure out a possible binder I could use to turn this into a possible artist pastel set in browns, black/greys, blues/violets, and maybe with a touch of chemistry see if I can get it to pop rust orange.

Meanwhile I've already got ideas for making things with it as is.

Next on the list of goofing off with stains/dyes is making alabaster oak with peroxide and lye, and playing with contrast of black and white oak. I might play with copper and brasses to get greens and blues.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 05:51:54 am by rovingjack » Logged

Banfili
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 11:36:49 am »

rovingjack the roving chemist! Good range of experiments, and sounds like loads of fun! Grin
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rovingjack
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 06:17:53 pm »

it's especially steampunk because it gets a range of browns in color, and you can make it darker by adding tea. Lol.

as fall comes around I may gather some acorns and boil the tannins out of them, making them edible, and then reduce the tannins down and add them to the iron acetate to make an ink for arts. I think I'm going to have to add some sort of gum to it to thicken it. And I'm hoping to figure out how to add the iron acetate to a white clay or chalk (since it's an vinegar derivative it may react with some of those compounds) and mix with a bit of a binder to make various shades of pastels for art too, and maybe even watercolor paints.
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swaps
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 01:21:40 pm »

Hi,
         If you were using pine with low tannin could you soak it in tea first to add some tannin ? or is there other ways to get a dark stain on pine ? I have used boot polish with some success but needs to be done quite a get times to get it very dark.

Alan
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rovingjack
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 03:35:23 pm »

you could use tea, I think I'll be gathering fallen acorn and boiling the tannins out of them (white oak acorns are edible but red oak acorns are too high in tannins and need to be boiled several times to remove them, so theoretically I can get edible acorns and tannins for inks and stains). You could concievably get it from oak saw dust, or leaves steeped in boiling water and then reduced down after straining.

then just brush it on the wood in a couple passes, before the iron acetate, and perhaps afterwards too if you think it needs it.

Tea would be pretty much the same, I hear people have used english breakfast tea, earl grey, and black tea, made super dark, or reduced down and had success. It's not something I have enough of lying around and even if I did I hate wasting perfectly good food/drinks, I'd rather use things that are unused byproducts of some other project or process.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 02:34:56 am »

you could use tea, I think I'll be gathering fallen acorn and boiling the tannins out of them (white oak acorns are edible but red oak acorns are too high in tannins and need to be boiled several times to remove them, so theoretically I can get edible acorns and tannins for inks and stains). You could concievably get it from oak saw dust, or leaves steeped in boiling water and then reduced down after straining.

then just brush it on the wood in a couple passes, before the iron acetate, and perhaps afterwards too if you think it needs it.

Tea would be pretty much the same, I hear people have used english breakfast tea, earl grey, and black tea, made super dark, or reduced down and had success. It's not something I have enough of lying around and even if I did I hate wasting perfectly good food/drinks, I'd rather use things that are unused byproducts of some other project or process.

I experimented with red oak acorns and after boiling off and throwing away the water 5 consecutive times, the water was still coming off black as coffee.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 04:17:48 am »

were you cooking in an steel or iron pot?
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Drew P
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 04:45:28 am »

I wonder how light-fast it is, especially on wood.
Sure wish I had time to experiment with this.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 09:13:19 pm »

everything I've seen suggests that it should be near impervious to light, as it's a mineral based pigment. the two things it might be most vulnerable to is wearing away, and chemical changes. so boiling the stained/inked object might lighten it, handling over years, and other chemistry effects. Notably some of the inks made with stuff like this seem to turn brown over the centuries and some color adjacent areas of parchments so that gradations of color blend and become indestinct blobs. It's especially obvious in works where it was used to make greytones in paintings and illustrations.

in this one you can sort of see the halo around the ink after over a century, and also see what the acidity does to some printing materials they were written on over centuries.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:16:04 pm by rovingjack » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2017, 09:44:43 pm »

were you cooking in an steel or iron pot?

Ceramic coated steel
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rovingjack
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 03:45:21 am »

So, I got too impatient to wait for any trees in the area to start dropping their acorns. I bought some instant unsweetened iced tea (powdered tea mix) and dabbled with it last night. My splotches on white cotton reacted by getting grey spots where I marked them with it. Even the non-visilbe spots I made with the iron acetate solution sudden got a light grey spot.

I tried it on the paper I was using to test it and it turned the areas I dabbed it on a bit darker brown. It was less impressive than the fabric, having some left over tea in the cup I was using to dab the dried acetate spots with a put a few drops in and boom an inky cloud formed in the tea. It was like watching a magic trick.

I mixed in another few drops and had what looked like a cup full of ink. I dabbed some on the paper in a white space and sure enough it was a very thin black liquid. it dried with a slightly raised profile on the paper and when held to a light has brownish tones to it while looking mostly black on the page.

and then tonight I dranked the tub the batch was in it was about 28 us gallons. some was put in pint, liter and gallon bottles and a bit was put in a bucket with some other rusty parts to see if it could still clean some of that up.

A also put a to half water bottles in the freezer to see if it might be possible to freezer distill it down to a very concentrated solution. results to follow in the next day or so.
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