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Author Topic: Pemmican, portable soup, dried veg  (Read 319 times)
rovingjack
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« on: August 12, 2017, 10:22:50 pm »

I often find that the past has lessons to teach us about forgotten ways that problems were solved before you could plug in a devise or click an app. I have no idea why it took as long as it did for my brains to remember these possible options for solving my dietary struggles in the attempt to figure out how to turn involuntary homelessness into roving adventurers opportunity.

Pemmican- Beef tallow and dried lean beef. once prepared in small portion sized pieces and stored in an air tight container, it's shelf stable meat that can last 3-10 years at least. (though summer temperatures that are higher than 100 degrees F might melt it so preserve it from heat and sun.)

portable soup- reduced, degreased, dehydrated meat broth. could be kept as flakes or powders that could be kept for months in a pantry and added to hot water and vegetables to make soups and stews.

dried squash & cucumber- pretty much what it sounds like. different types of squash and cucumber that have been cleaned, blanched, cut thin and dehydrated. should last most of a year if kept in seal containers.

dried spinach and kale- flake or powdered leafy greens that can be sprinkled like herbs into dishes.

and totilla and potato chips/crisps to round out the supplies.

(I need to try eating carrots again and maybe give peppers a try, they too would dehydrate well for long term storage)
basically after that most of these just require adding hot water and they are good to go. mix in canned beans after draining, or dried beans that have been soaked and cooked. maybe some fresh produce from stops along the way.

This should take care of any and all food needs for travel. After all much of my native ancestors used this, as did the french canadian ancestors in the fur trade. Oh and polar expiditions and mountain climbers. people crossing the oceans in ships.

It strikes me as frankly obvious now that I'm thinking about it. And I can easily imagine it as a steampunk food supply of ships of the land, sea and air.
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 02:20:26 am »

Pemmican - The Ultimate Survival Food
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Banfili
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 02:53:41 am »

Portable soup has been around for quite a long time - Napoleonic Royal Navy ships carried it by the crate load to feed it's sailors, especially sick or wounded ones. It can be used as a stock base for stews and bouillons (clear soups). As an alternative to beef, there is also chicken, and vegetable varieties. Can be purchased in quantity in tins or cubes. A chicken stock cube dissolved in a mug with boiling water and instant noodles - instant chicken noodle soup! Add in other dried veg, like peas, carrots, onion flakes and dried mushrooms, corn, garlic, and beans for protein - whatever you can tolerate, and you can live on it, not grandly, or very well, but it would keep you ticking over.
 
I always have some stock cubes or powdered in tins in the cupboard, along with dried or dehydrated veg - a holdover from the long ago dark days of lengthy unemployment! Every trip to the supermarket brings home something along those lines. And I really do like dehydrated potato, packets of which you can get with orange sweet potato mixed, or sweet potato on its own. I also always have rice and pasta - a lot can be done with rice, tomato sauce and a soft boiled egg!

That pemmican looks disgusting, by the way, like tinned corned beef (there's another option) gone off! I think I would prefer the meat just dried, but you can also put dried berries and stuff into pemmican. Nutritious, and reasonably good for you, but still ...! Dried fish, too, if you can tolerate fish.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 02:59:28 am by Banfili » Logged
James Harrison
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 02:07:06 pm »

That pemmican looks disgusting, by the way, like tinned corned beef (there's another option) gone off! I think I would prefer the meat just dried, but you can also put dried berries and stuff into pemmican. Nutritious, and reasonably good for you, but still ...! Dried fish, too, if you can tolerate fish.

Oh, I don't know.  Shackleton's men had to eat the stuff with seal blubber mixed in, which sounds even worse. 
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Banfili
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 04:29:35 pm »

Anything with seal blubber sounds worse!  Smiley

After a week or so of real starvation your brain chemistry changes, and you'll eat anything you can get hold of to stay alive - it takes a real effort of will to go on a hunger strike!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 09:22:38 pm »

That pemmican looks disgusting, by the way, like tinned corned beef (there's another option) gone off! I think I would prefer the meat just dried, but you can also put dried berries and stuff into pemmican. Nutritious, and reasonably good for you, but still ...! Dried fish, too, if you can tolerate fish.


Oh, I don't know.  Shackleton's men had to eat the stuff with seal blubber mixed in, which sounds even worse. 


In that case, you folks might enjoy this (barf bags are next to you on your right side)  Grin

Pemmican Part 2 - Let's Prepare It!


Pemmican Episode 4 - 18th century cooking with Jas Townsend and Son S5E5
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RJBowman
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 10:44:42 pm »

I used to eat bouillon from cubes for lunch as a child; I was thin back then. I don't think that I've ever seen Pemmican for sale, but I've never really looked for it.

If you want a nice portable dried soup, there is always Manischewitz, marketed to kosher diners.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 01:53:09 am »

That pemmican looks disgusting, by the way, like tinned corned beef (there's another option) gone off! I think I would prefer the meat just dried, but you can also put dried berries and stuff into pemmican. Nutritious, and reasonably good for you, but still ...! Dried fish, too, if you can tolerate fish.


Oh, I don't know.  Shackleton's men had to eat the stuff with seal blubber mixed in, which sounds even worse. 


In that case, you folks might enjoy this (barf bags are next to you on your right side)  Grin

Pemmican Part 2 - Let's Prepare It!

Pemmican Episode 4 - 18th century cooking with Jas Townsend and Son S5E5


I really don't get what you folks are gasping and fainting about.

admittedly the foundation of half my food is a mix of lentils and ground beef that look a bit like dog food, and my veggies tend to look like a cross between cooked onion and sauerkraut, so I've adapted to not thinking about sustenance in terms of pretty presentation, but then many of your foods have had weird things added to them to 'preserve color' and 'natural flavors' added.

pemmican isn't anywhere near being corned beef or spam, because it's not seasoned or heavily salted. which is a good thing for using it as an ingredient. You season it when you want to eat it, and only with what you want.

I recently tried a roast beef lunch meat that was apparent 'water color painted' with food dyes to make it look pretty, and it was soooo salty it was intolerable to my pallet. Bland rehydrated lean beef and beef fat mixed with seasoning doesn't bother me any as an idea, and being able to flavor it with dried herbs and spices likely wouldn't even seem nessecary to me eccept on occasions I want a little variety.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 02:21:01 am »

Well, it doesn't sound/look that gross to me, but then I was just trying to have fun eliciting reactions from the public  Grin I think that the "re-fried" hash above looks like a better option to me.

Spam is just as fatty anyway, as are many kinds of sausages. As to the salt, yes I can see that as a problem. I've been buying beef franks lately, and though I like the flavor, they are admittedly oversalted most of the time. Pemmican has to be healthier by default.
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Banfili
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 03:00:41 am »

I wasn't gasping or fainting, rovingjack, it was what it looks like I was remarking on, not how palatable or necessary it was!

I can remember being on very short commons when I was a child, and the fried/poached egg on rice with tomato sauce made a regular appearance - eggs then were cheap, as was rice, and potatoes. I do keep a fair bit of dried food, except meat, in my cupboards, and what I keep is the food on it's own - just dried, no additives. Massel stock cube/powder, or Vegeta. Lots of things look disgusting (depending on who is doing the cooking, of course!!) but taste ok - a corner of a stock cube or a pinch of stock powder will add a little extra flavour.

It's fuel to keep you going, I understand that, but dried mushrooms, green and yellow split peas, lentils, barley, onion and garlic, peas, beans & rice don't have additives. With your limited food choices and allergies it's a bit of a lottery, but a small pinch of pleasure with a little extra flavour could only make one feel better.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 03:03:12 am by Banfili » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 03:19:35 am »

Then there's the obvious problem. Where do you get Pemmican? There is a brand of beef jerky called "Pemmican" but that is a brand name only  Tongue They don't actually sell Pemmican. I have never seen actual Pemmican sold. You would have to make it on your own, or borrow someone's kitchen.

https://shop.pemmican.com/
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 03:22:21 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
rovingjack
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 05:12:08 am »

Then there's the obvious problem. Where do you get Pemmican? There is a brand of beef jerky called "Pemmican" but that is a brand name only  Tongue They don't actually sell Pemmican. I have never seen actual Pemmican sold. You would have to make it on your own, or borrow someone's kitchen.

https://shop.pemmican.com/

I'd have to make mine. Largely because anybody making anything like it these days likes to throw berries and other filler into it, which shortens shelf life and adds possible things I can't eat.

I figure 1/4 lb of beef per day would make it out to be 8 lbs of lean beef being enough for roughly a months meat needs. Cut it thin, cook it and then dry it. Run it through a blender (probably heat it for a bit longer to be extra dry. and then mix with about 2 lbs of tallow and pack into ice cube trays. let it set. maybe give an extra coat of tallow or bees wax to prevent oxygen from letting the outer layer of tallow go rancid over the years. though frankly I don't plan on letting anything sit that long. This is likely to be for not much more than 3 months out of a year, and likely prepared a week or so before it starts to be used.

 Total weight of a months finished should be about 4 lbs.

I find myself wondering if using a quick poach after cooking to pull oils and fats out would help in getting a more complete dry, while also providing a start to a stock that can be turned into a portable soup.

as an aside I visited a friend recently, and out of kindness she supplied for me some ground beef from the farm up the road. I was very thankful. It was a nice gesture, and I'm sure that's what beef is supposed to taste like; but it was way too intense for me. To me it tasted of blood, grass, and warm raw milk flavors (not that they had those added but that's just the taste it seemed to have for me). But then I was never really a beef eater to start with, I only do this because I've had trouble with other meat sources.


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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 05:34:08 am »

I would advice against poaching after cooking. You might re introduce water into the system. The thing is germs like and need water to propagate. The fat stops that. In any case deep frying, but not poaching. A quick re poaching in water would need to be more than 3 minutes to kill the bacteria in the water you use to poach.

I would just follow the original recipe as closely as possible. The sealing with wax may make sense. I was going to suggest to vacuum pack if possible.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2017, 08:00:00 am »

you misunderstand.

Cook, poach, Then dry. grind/blender, and then a touch up drying as more area is exposed to the drying now.

But if it does provide a broth it means your meat likely has less flavor and nutrition.

The poach is to get the oils and fats out because they are different from the tallow in that they can and do go rancid over time. It's why you choose leaner cuts of meat.

the trouble with vacuum packing is that it's done in larger sizes and once you open a package it's no longer sealed where coating can be done on a portion based level.

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Banfili
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2017, 08:58:53 am »

Would a possible answer to the vacuum packing problem be to shape the meat out into portions with an inch or so of space between them, in a larger vacuum bag, vacuum seal it,  then use a bag sealer to seal off, or even double seal off, the seperate portions? That way you would only need to cut off the ones you need, without breaking the vacuum seal on the whole bag.

I have a food dryer (new late last year), but am yet to experiment with it - that is for the warmer months. Must put on my list-of-things-to-get a vacuum sealer - my next door neighbour has one and loves it. I do have a bag sealer around somewhere - must look for that!
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Otto Von Pifka
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2017, 04:06:31 am »

not to jar everyone into the present century, but the humble ramen packet can do a lot more than keep a college student alive.

they make a good start to all sorts of soups and they themselves come in so many flavors to begin with. I tend to add a lot more water than called for, especially since they're high in  sodium and I add all sorts of other stuff to bolster the flavor anywys

if you manage a hunt in the amazon (the digital one) there are a myriad of dried soup veggies premixed and contained in all sizes of storable containers. the prices may seem high but they're dried so they're fairly dense and will make a fair amount of soup over time, and keep well in between.

there are also all sorts of dried beans that can be custom blended for soup starters, if you're patient enough to cook for that long.

I myself have taken to rehydrating beans in a one liter soda bottle capped with one of those carbonation saving pumps. I just load in the beans, rinse them once (finger in the opening ala dutch boy at the dyke) and then fill it most of the way with that dihydros-oxide everyone's always raving about. add the cap and pump it up insane working pressures and leave the bottle on its side so the swelling beans don't lodge themselves firmly in the bottle (did that the first time, had to beat the bottle like a red headed stepchild to work them loose)

whether or not it helps them soak, the bottle laying out at least helps remind me to at least cook the damn things before they go rotten.

I find the large plastic jugs of applesauce a good source of containers to store the beans in as I don't cook a whole lot in one sitting and I don't want creepy crawlies absconding with my legumes sitting about on open bags.

dried pasta stores well in those containers as well as old peanut butter jars (unless of course you're allergic) and a dollop of peanutbutter and some good pepper spices added to a ramen make for a good satay soup!

a jar of pasta sauce can be had fairly cheap (and truthfully I can't taste a difference between the snooty brands and the cheap stuff) and can last a good week+ if well refrigerated. added to ramen with a good amount of fresh or dried veggies makes for a passable minestrone soup. works with toast to make quickie pizza too.

I prefer whole carrots over those prepackaged baby carrots as the skin on them adds a different flavor to soups. same with celery, I buy the whole bunch and separate the greens and heart from the stalks and chop it up fairly small and keep it in a water filled jar to add to soups, it usually lasts over 2 weeks if the water is kept up and even replaced if it seems to be getting a bit gamey. the celery goes in another container full of water to keep it hydrated. lettuce is another that I can make last a bit longer once it starts to wilt noticeably, it gets chopped and thrown in with the celery bits or into its own jar of fresh water (drained and refilled, it lasts a few days past what it would in the air) and popped into the fridge too. I love those little sweet peppers you see more and more, more subtle in flavor than bell peppers and they're more inline with single living/single cooking.

from time to time I will buy a big ole jar of sauerkraut and use it in soups too, for a more savory tang. I just fork out a dollop and chop it a bit finer then into the soup with everything else. kept in the fridge and the lid on tight a REAL sauerkraut will last a good long time. kimchee is another favorite but like sauerkraut makes for a smelly fridge!

don't forget the humble tortilla, they keep fairly well especially refrigerated and can be used for all sorts of quick meals, my two favorites are PB&J taco, and a celery stick with ranch dressing and some chili sauce rolled up in said tortilla, its sorta like buffalo wings without the chicken!

somewhere around here is a pressure cooker pot I bought to experiment with trying to vacuum dessicate veggies of my own. I was going to put a small cheap 110v mini compressor in another pot, with the pump forcing the air out of the pot and the food bearing pot piped to that to draw the vacuum to. never got around to any serious experimenting even though all the materials are around here somewhere. not quite freeze drying but regular air drying change the flavors a little too much for my tastes but I do still like the dried veggies and use them regularly.

pemmican sounds fascinating, I need to look into that a lot more!  it's amazing how the world has forgotten how to get by without refrigeration to do our bidding (at least the first world) good on you for bringing this to bear!


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rovingjack
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2017, 10:46:28 pm »

Would a possible answer to the vacuum packing problem be to shape the meat out into portions with an inch or so of space between them, in a larger vacuum bag, vacuum seal it,  then use a bag sealer to seal off, or even double seal off, the seperate portions? That way you would only need to cut off the ones you need, without breaking the vacuum seal on the whole bag.

I have a food dryer (new late last year), but am yet to experiment with it - that is for the warmer months. Must put on my list-of-things-to-get a vacuum sealer - my next door neighbour has one and loves it. I do have a bag sealer around somewhere - must look for that!

well It's possible but seems like more work than needed. I should be able to just portion them in a muffin pan, and enclose one portion of meat and one portion of dried veg into baby food sized jars that I could seal up on a cool dry day (maybe include a silica gel pack) and stack a bunch of those in a plastic tote. and maybe have a couple larger mason jars filled with bulk dried veg or pemmican portions with bits of wax paper between portions. I can then reseperate into baby food jars a month later so I don't have to keep opening jars multiple times, just 2 or 3 times every couple of months.

not to jar everyone into the present century, but the humble ramen packet ...

if you manage a hunt in the amazon (the digital one) there are a myriad of dried soup veggies premixed and contained in all sizes of storable containers.

there are also all sorts of dried beans that can be custom blended for soup starters, if you're patient enough to cook for that long.

I myself have taken to rehydrating beans in a one liter soda bottle capped with one of those carbonation saving pumps. I just load in the beans, rinse them once (finger in the opening ala dutch boy at the dyke) and then fill it most of the way with that dihydros-oxide everyone's always raving about. add the cap and pump it up insane working pressures and leave the bottle on its side so the swelling beans don't lodge themselves firmly in the bottle (did that the first time, had to beat the bottle like a red headed stepchild to work them loose)

whether or not it helps them soak, the bottle laying out at least helps remind me to at least cook the damn things before they go rotten...

a jar of pasta sauce can be had fairly cheap (and truthfully I can't taste a difference between the snooty brands and the cheap stuff) and can last a good week+ if well refrigerated...
I prefer whole carrots over those prepackaged baby carrots ...

from time to time I will buy a big ole jar of sauerkraut and use it in soups too, for a more savory tang. I just fork out a dollop and chop it a bit finer then into the soup with everything else. kept in the fridge and the lid on tight a REAL sauerkraut will last a good long time. kimchee is another favorite but like sauerkraut makes for a smelly fridge!

don't forget the humble tortilla...

pemmican sounds fascinating, I need to look into that a lot more!  it's amazing how the world has forgotten how to get by without refrigeration to do our bidding (at least the first world) good on you for bringing this to bear!


my digestive health issues pretty much make it certain that the flavoring of ramen would make me ill, and until a few years ago the noodles would have certainly done so too. now the noodles might be a possibility but not an enthusiastic one for me. I'd rather a corn bread or tortilla chips, maybe a dry rice crispies. Potato crisps too as they have some nutritional value beyond the offerings from ramen.

I'd have to be careful about the dried vegetables too as I have some allergy like symptoms from some very common veggies like carrots. and I've always had difficulty with tomatoes causing joint pain and heart burn.

and part of this exploration is to make things minimal cooking (to the degree that one could put the food into a thermos, and pour a couple cups of water from a portable electric tea pot (sans tea) and let it steep for an hour before pouring out hot reconstituted meals.

cooking is difficult in public places around here.

that and refrigeration being out of the question means; dried, pickled, canned, freeze dried, and fresh are the best options. And I'm not sure how well pickles would go over with my digestion issues.

Quote
somewhere around here is a pressure cooker pot I bought to experiment with trying to vacuum dessicate veggies of my own. I was going to put a small cheap 110v mini compressor in another pot, with the pump forcing the air out of the pot and the food bearing pot piped to that to draw the vacuum to. never got around to any serious experimenting even though all the materials are around here somewhere. not quite freeze drying but regular air drying change the flavors a little too much for my tastes but I do still like the dried veggies and use them regularly.

I did have an experiment I wanted to run using vacuum storage jars, calcium chloride and a freezer to see if I could freeze dry some things myself.

but in that would be more for some experimenting on another project this is more to do with sustainable supplies of long term healthy food stores (that work with my illness) that need no refrigeration and little to no cooking.

I did discover recently that some hikers have dehydrated cooked hamburger crumbles into a small carry supply of meat for the trail. though it needs some serious recooking to avoid being kind of crunchy when recooked.
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Otto Von Pifka
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 11:28:27 am »

I watched an interesting show about the instant ramen noodle and its inventor, who went on to establish nissin company. they produce all sorts of ramen in different varieties the world over. it went into great detail about their attempt to crack the market in Vietnam. they also talked about their newest noodle which is non fried and supposedly much healthier. heh, I always assumed it was just the seasonings that were so unhealthy, go figure!
does your allergies carry over to a lot of nuts? my great fear is developing an allergy to peanuts, I probably eat too much of it in all sorts of form. as it is a peanut butter sandwitch makes my lips and gums tingle somewhat for hours after I eat it, not uncomfortably but still its upsetting!
I've been trying to include a lot more beans of all sorts of variety into my diet, I always assumed they were a part of my gastric problems but turns out they're agreeing with me just fine. I gave chick peas an earnest try but I just can't seem to enjoy eating them. from what I read its one of the very few bean types that can be eaten nearly raw without too much distress...whether its true or not i'm not sure I want to find out, in my case.
as it is  there are so many beans available canned and priced cheap enough to make it much easier than cooking from dried.

my main interest for vacuum drying was to try my hand at okra chips, i've read that they're supposed to be fairly tasty as a snack food and about as healthy as any food can get. trouble is they're a rare trendy boutique snack so far and super expensive to buy, if you can even find them. I really should drag out all that stuff and cobble something together, even just to dry my own veggies when they're in season.
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morozow
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 02:31:57 pm »

Buckwheat. Very useful food.

One of the recipes, is to soak the cereal overnight. Can boiling water, even cold water.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I prefer the classic buckwheat. Especially good with bacon or corned beef (from a tin). Also long-term storage products.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 04:28:44 pm by morozow » Logged

Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
rovingjack
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2017, 10:51:46 pm »

I watched an interesting show about the instant ramen noodle and its inventor, who went on to establish nissin company. they produce all sorts of ramen in different varieties the world over. it went into great detail about their attempt to crack the market in Vietnam. they also talked about their newest noodle which is non fried and supposedly much healthier. heh, I always assumed it was just the seasonings that were so unhealthy, go figure!
does your allergies carry over to a lot of nuts? my great fear is developing an allergy to peanuts, I probably eat too much of it in all sorts of form. as it is a peanut butter sandwitch makes my lips and gums tingle somewhat for hours after I eat it, not uncomfortably but still its upsetting!
I've been trying to include a lot more beans of all sorts of variety into my diet, I always assumed they were a part of my gastric problems but turns out they're agreeing with me just fine. I gave chick peas an earnest try but I just can't seem to enjoy eating them. from what I read its one of the very few bean types that can be eaten nearly raw without too much distress...whether its true or not i'm not sure I want to find out, in my case.
as it is  there are so many beans available canned and priced cheap enough to make it much easier than cooking from dried.

my main interest for vacuum drying was to try my hand at okra chips, i've read that they're supposed to be fairly tasty as a snack food and about as healthy as any food can get. trouble is they're a rare trendy boutique snack so far and super expensive to buy, if you can even find them. I really should drag out all that stuff and cobble something together, even just to dry my own veggies when they're in season.

I don't eat nuts often enough to know if I have any sensativities. Literally the first nut based thing I had in the last 9 years was a week or so ago when I bought some Jif almond butter. Made me a little queasy but it didn't need refrigeration and it has fats and protein in it. I'm inclined to be careful with peanuts because they are a legume like beans and peas, and I have had some symptoms from peas. It's just that things like lentils are too close to beans and peanuts while being a great source of nutrition that I'd rather not risk losing beans for peanuts.
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