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Author Topic: Mens Shirts for a humid enviroment  (Read 940 times)
keithjones
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2017, 02:46:14 am »

Well I'm here to check in. Bring a little bit of Russian.

Gymnastyorka. Comes from the "gymnastic shirt".

Part of the uniforms of Russian soldiers. Came into wide use from the late 19th century. Linen, long shirt, worn with a strap or belt.

In official use entered in Turkestan, where it is very hot. There was a white Gymnastyorka.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastyorka






Practical AND good looking.
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J. Wilhelm
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Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2017, 12:47:36 am »

Well I'm here to check in. Bring a little bit of Russian.

Gymnastyorka. Comes from the "gymnastic shirt". 

Part of the uniforms of Russian soldiers. Came into wide use from the late 19th century. Linen, long shirt, worn with a strap or belt.

In official use entered in Turkestan, where it is very hot. There was a white Gymnastyorka.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastyorka






Practical AND good looking. 


Certainly items like the tunic and many others qualify as shirts. If find the European definition of shirt as "underwear" as ridiculously limited. It simply can't be that the blouse idea just comes from Garibaldi's partisans either. Clearly many other cultures had similar items. I need to see for example the history of the Cheongsam/Quipao. It seems to me that silk clothing from the Middle East and Far East in antiquity constitute the most obvious examples of practical shirts worn as outerware.

As to why the Victorians insisted on wearing so much fabric on them, even in subtropical weather is something for debate.

I am flabbergasted at what the typical Union Volunteer soldier or Confederate Ranger would have had to suffer during the Trans-Mississippi theatre of operations.

For non-Americans, basically the Trans-Mississippi theatre is the very limited one-year battle for the American Southwest in 1862. Just a few days ago the temperature in Phoenix was 120F/49F. Smaller airplanes could not take off at full capacity, and a few people were dying from the heat.

Contrast that with the "California Column" of Union volunteers marching from Yuma, at the edge of California along the Mexican border and the marching along the worst part of the desert in what is now the southern part of Arizona and New Mexico.

Again for non Americans, this is the part of the US that looks exactly like in the stereotypical "cowboy" western movies. It's basically a very arid zone (hence the name Arizona). Only Australians will underhand the level of dryness and heat we are talking about...

And you have these volunteers marching with woolen coats? I figure the only way that can be true is of they march at night, when the desert temperature is very low. 

Even then when you reach the battlefield, it's hot as hell.

If you read the history you realize that all the "battles" for Arizona/New Mexico were mere skirmishes. 

The only teal battles happened at the very start (less than 3 o think), when the Confederate rangers marched from Mesilla (now Las Cruces, north to take the capital of New Mexico, almost without opposition. The altitude of the desert is relative high at the "heel" of the "Texas boot," so the weather is very cool and dry. But to maintain power in the lower areas, they needed to confront the Union soldiers in the hottest weather of the United States.

It's just incredible and unbelievable what these soldiers endured in that year, after say the month of March. I think all hostilities were stopped by June, so the war for Arizona was over by summer.

The Confederates were routed out by the California Column in a matter of months, and the rest of the war was fought in the Eastern part of the United States... Where the weather is still hot but there's water and shade!!!
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morozow
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 03:30:50 pm »

And you have these volunteers marching with woolen coats? I figure the only way that can be true is of they march at night, when the desert temperature is very low.

C woolen jackets is not so clear.

When the ambient temperature exceeds the temperature of human body, tight clothes serves as a thermos keeping the climate inside.

Anyway, that explains why our middle Asian brothers, wearing summer cotton robes, and felt and fur caps.


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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 08:14:32 pm »

And you have these volunteers marching with woolen coats? I figure the only way that can be true is of they march at night, when the desert temperature is very low.

C woolen jackets is not so clear.

When the ambient temperature exceeds the temperature of human body, tight clothes serves as a thermos keeping the climate inside.

Anyway, that explains why our middle Asian brothers, wearing summer cotton robes, and felt and fur caps.




What I don't understand is, how does the body get rid of the heat it generates when it can't perspire? Even of the clothing is insulating the body wont be able to get rid of it's own heat.

The one physical answer is tha possibly a very thick thermal insulation also radiates heat. It's a classic heat transfer engineering problem: insulating water pipes from freezing weather. If the insulation is too thick, the added surface of the insulation can become so large that it radiates heat outward, so there is an optimal insulation thickness- not so thick that it functions as a radiator, not so thin that it lets heat escape.

But the problem is that energy travels in two directions. While the thick garments worn by the Central Asian people above could radiate heat outward, they can also absorb heat into the body.

It's an interesting problem. Let's put your theory to the test. The temperature is 49 C in Phoenix, Arizona this week. You're invited to come and travel northwest through the desert to the Grand Canyon (where it will be a bit cooler), wearing that Middle Eastern attire you show. Bring your own donkey (actually you can rent a donkey on site - that's the way for tourists to get down to the bottom of the canyon).
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morozow
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2017, 09:48:47 am »

And you have these volunteers marching with woolen coats? I figure the only way that can be true is of they march at night, when the desert temperature is very low.

C woolen jackets is not so clear.

When the ambient temperature exceeds the temperature of human body, tight clothes serves as a thermos keeping the climate inside.

Anyway, that explains why our middle Asian brothers, wearing summer cotton robes, and felt and fur caps.




What I don't understand is, how does the body get rid of the heat it generates when it can't perspire? Even of the clothing is insulating the body wont be able to get rid of it's own heat.

The one physical answer is tha possibly a very thick thermal insulation also radiates heat. It's a classic heat transfer engineering problem: insulating water pipes from freezing weather. If the insulation is too thick, the added surface of the insulation can become so large that it radiates heat outward, so there is an optimal insulation thickness- not so thick that it functions as a radiator, not so thin that it lets heat escape.

But the problem is that energy travels in two directions. While the thick garments worn by the Central Asian people above could radiate heat outward, they can also absorb heat into the body.

It's an interesting problem. Let's put your theory to the test. The temperature is 49 C in Phoenix, Arizona this week. You're invited to come and travel northwest through the desert to the Grand Canyon (where it will be a bit cooler), wearing that Middle Eastern attire you show. Bring your own donkey (actually you can rent a donkey on site - that's the way for tourists to get down to the bottom of the canyon).
One day, I can drive to your Arizona. But it will have to solve the issue theoretically.

1) how do people live in hot climates. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems so:
- if humid and hot climate, it's possible naked.
- and if dry and hot, it is not so clear. Many try in different clothes to wrap.

2) as for the "technical" issues. If you look at the pictures, all these clothes are casual, I'm not-skinny.
I.e., the evaporation goes on, the water flies away from the body and cools it. And then it turns out in the space between the body and clothing. And we must remember that the clothes are not tight.
But what's next?
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montysaurus
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 05:40:25 pm »

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams Here is a scientific explaination.
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