The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
October 21, 2017, 04:36:15 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support BrassGoggles! Donate once or $3/mo.
 See details here.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bone/ivory query  (Read 669 times)
Eve Korvinus
Officer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom


« on: March 22, 2017, 01:39:04 pm »

I'm planning some projects using sculpey to mimic bone/teeth/ivory  etc. My query is this : is it possible to fire harden these materials (bone etc) in the same way as wood without destroying them?
Logged
Angus A Fitziron
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Research Air Ship R.A.S. 'Saorsa'


« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 02:20:47 pm »

I'm not sure I follow the question but if it helps I have used bone (from the Sunday roast lamb!) The bone has survived roasting at  180C and has cleaned up well and seems to be quite hard enough to work with wood or metal working tools. I think you would at least need to boil the bones to remove all traces of meat etc and to cook out any marrow to stop it going rotten. The other option is to bury it in the garden for a year or two but cooking worked for me.
Logged

Airship Artificer, part-time romantik and amateur Natural Philosopher

"wee all here are much troubled with the loss of poor Thompson & Sutton"
Eve Korvinus
Officer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 03:07:02 pm »

Thanks Angus. I'm making items out of sculpey to mimic bone/ivory that has been fire hardened as I'm not too good at carving  (and I like a bit of fantasy mixed with my steam).
Logged
Angus A Fitziron
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Research Air Ship R.A.S. 'Saorsa'


« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 07:48:38 pm »

Ah, in that case - the bone that was 'cured' at low temperature - boiling - finished up cream / ivory in colour. The roasted bone was more white and matt / dull in finish. Sounds like an interesting project.
Logged
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 02:00:50 am »

I myself have been trying to use sculpy to mimic ivory, and except for the look, it has been a failure. The stuff, even when baked, maintains a slight
flexibility or plasticity that just does not replicate the firmness of bone or ivory. For very small ( ie jewelry) pieces I have succesfully used tagua nuts;
for larger pieces such as knife handle, pistol grips or larger, I have used ivory colored  Micarta (difficult to obtain these days) ivory colored Corian Counter Top scraps ( these take tea stain very nicely for aging) and new made plastic countertop scraps which are very hard to stain.

None of the above show any of the characteristic grain that bone and ivory have, so I am further investigating a yellowish wood called "american holly" that has been said to be an excellent substitute.

In general, I do like to use actual bone and real antler ( aka stag) in my projects, one point I make is that I use "shed" antlers which the animal drops themselves after the rutting season is over, and which are found and collected in the woods by itinerate ne'er-do-wells such as Antler Collectors and Boy Scouts ...  Wink    ( please note the wink wink smiley indicative of a jocular jibe)

hope this helps
yhs
pof marvel
Logged

Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium

Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions and Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
Steampunk Away
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


Long Live The Icarus!

https://twitter.com/Steam
WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 10:06:00 pm »

Sculpey would be very hard to do this with, because when it is brought above its baking temperature, it loses a lot of integrity. The idea of tagua nuts is well researched and very similar looking.
Logged

Welcome aboard Steampunk Away! We are a small custom order shop, creating jewelry, props, costumes, drawings, and models. Email us at steampunkaway@gmail.com to have us create your special order on commission! Have a mechanical day!
MWBailey
Rogue Ætherlord
*
United States United States


"This is the sort of thing no-one ever believes"

rtafStElmo
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 01:57:43 am »

I've worked with bone (making rhythm bones). Bones that have been laying out in the weather in the wild (or a back pasture/woods/the garden) for a year or more tend to be pretty well devoid of marrow or fat or other things.

Beware of bone that may have come from an animal that was still decomposing when the bone material was harvested; for some reason, that kind tends to remain "stinky" no matter what you do to it. I bought a pair of rhythm bones (to pair up with the ones I already had/have, which are still absolutely perfect and odor free) at a festival a couple or few years back, and they STANK of rotten Steer carcass. Got them home, threw them on a fire ant pile and left them there for the better part of a year, and then brought them in. They STILL stank! I then immersed them in a can of gasoline for a month. Took them out, and marveled at how much of the still-remaining soft matter that was on them when they went into the gasoline had disappeared, put them on a shelf in the closet - and in about a week they began to stink to high heaven again. I followed a friend's suggestion and put them in bleach, then white gas (coleman fuel) each for about two months. It worked! ...For about two weeks. then they started stinking yet again. Currently they are sealed in a ziplock bag, and wrapped successively in a plastic grocery bag  and an old oil rag. I plan to get rid of them if they have become gamey again.

I'll be harvesting the bones myself in future...
Logged

Walk softly and carry a big banjo...

""quid statis aspicientes in infernum"
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 07:43:47 am »

The only thing Sculpey is good for is emulating white un-lacquered ceramic. I have successfully used white sculpey to create "ceramic" handles for a hand held auricular which was part of an old computer made to look like an old telephone.
Logged

Wilhelm Smydle
Snr. Officer
****
United States United States


« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 08:03:00 pm »

Depending on the application you can try fimo or sculpy and mix to get a similar color.

The finishing steps can make a huge difference in the over all look so don't slack on the texture before curing or abrasives after it cools.

Other materials that may work include faux bone, nut ivory, or corian type solid surface materials,
with the polymer stuff there are tutorials that can help get you closer toward the look your after.

The fire hardening technique itself will melt, burn, or other wise be bad for polymers and acrylics based bone substitutes.
 
Logged
Hektor Plasm
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


All-Round Oddfellow.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2017, 08:15:53 pm »

It seems there is a palm seed that can be used to replace ivory:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39333386

HP
Logged

"all die! o, the embarrassment."
H Plasm Esq. ICUE    Avatar by and with kind permission of Dr Geof. Ta!!

Some musings:-
http://hektorplasm.blogspot.co.uk/
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2017, 09:24:54 pm »

It seems there is a palm seed that can be used to replace ivory:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39333386

HP


Greetings My Dear HP -
thanks for the link, it offers some excellent photos illustrating the nut.
just fyi, the "palm seed" is the tagua nut currently under discussion.

the plam seed aka tagua nut is a very dense material, cares well, holds up well, and looks really really good!
Japanese artists are using it to make contemporary versionsof the "netsuke" or "cord toggle" , see here:
http://www.netsuke.org/page-1125375

Prior to plastic, Tagua Nuts were used to make fine buttons, and are currently popular for small scrimshaw work.

I like to use it for small ( to me - 1.5" or less) ivory substitute jewelry items . If one needs a long cylinderical object such as
a knife handle or magnifying glass handle, one can cut numerous thick " washers" of the tagua nut and stack them together
as in the "Leather washer"  or "leather stack" knife handle seen here
http://www.twinleather.com/twnhandl.htm

according to one source,
- they will shrink in very dry climates, so stablizing and sealing them is advisable.
- if grinding them at high speeds, they will scortch or burn and stink to high heaven
- if dried to quickly they can and will crack.

here is a photo of the "skinned" nuts
http://www.jatagan.eu/images/sklady/tagua.jpg

here is a carved netsuke


here is some info on carving tagua
http://myparanormallife.blogspot.com/2008/03/guide-to-carving-with-tagua-nuts.html

more carving, (and at the top of the page, the intrepid explorer is getting his ear pierced by a local)
http://dawnontheamazon.com/blog/2008/10/26/carving-tagua-nuts-the-vegetable-ivory/

here is some info on using bone, esp how to stablize it
http://www.scrimshaw.com/bone-abundant-ivory-alternative-scrimshaw/

hope this helps

yhs
prof mumbles
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:00:48 am by Prof Marvel » Logged
Eve Korvinus
Officer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2017, 05:33:42 pm »

Thanks one and all for the info. Just to clear something up : I'm not fire hardening the sculpey, I'm using it to mimic fire hardened bone/ivory
Logged
Crowquill
Deck Hand
*
Canada Canada


« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 01:33:18 am »

Hi - actually burning / scorching bone weakens it rather than hardening it - one of the ways bone is different than wood.  This is based on personal experiment.

What appears to be going on is that:
-Scorching wood carbonizes it, which seems to make it more dense & hard.
-Scorching bone burns out the proteins which support the calcium lattice, making it more porous and crumbly...

That aside, tagua nut makes an excellent substitute for bone / tooth / ivory.  It is easier to carve than the skeletal materials, but still hard enough to take a good polish.  It takes stain very well (a couple of minutes in a nice hot cup of tea followed by a quick rub over with fine abrasive & hand polishing antiques it effectively).

I've tried using white sculpy / fimo as a substitute but haven't been able to get it to take on the subtly transluscent & highly polished surface of bone or ivory.

Logged
ForestB
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States

Lady of the copper frogs


« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 02:47:15 am »

Try the translucent sculpy, I used it to make teeth and it looks really good.
Logged

Please take a look at my website, see what I create...

http://www.forestbetz.weebly.com
Ravenson
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 09:01:56 pm »

Ok   a couple things..  First I have used sculpy several times to make small faux ivory or bone pieces the trick is layers...  First mix a small pea sized piece of gold Sculpy ( I use Premo it is much stronger) into a pack of white then conduction both the blend and a pack of translucent premo.  Roll very thin and layer the colors.  One you have the stack of layers roll them with rolling pin and cut into two or three equal sized pieces and stack and roll again.   More thinner layers give a better effect, once you have finished making the final piece and cured it antique it with a little brown acrylic or brown shoe polish to get the best effect.  Now this is still going to be polymer clay so it is only going to be as hard as polymer clay gets and it is on the softer side and feels like what it is when you pick it up..   Now if you are wanting a better Faux bone you might try this site for more information https://www.fauxbone.com/      The artist gets some really nice bone like effects..  The material is form of PVC so you would have to carve it or machine it but it is an option.. 
  So if you do not mind sharing I would love to know more about exactly you are making.  I do know a couple people that work in bone so maybe it is something that you could have made for you.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.214 seconds with 15 queries.