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Author Topic: "Steam" powered miniture W18 engine  (Read 640 times)
Dr.B.Goodall
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« on: July 02, 2016, 06:48:56 pm »

Someone in my FB friends posted a link to the following video - which is a pure work of art.  There are other video's in the series, showing how the components were made - this guy has some serious skill!

Anyway, the video shows the engine being put together and then running at the end off of a compressed air supply (so you could argue "Steam" powered).  It's not Steampunk by name, but boy does it look it  Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_STaG6Tu_Oo

I have an Engineering background, and find this video (and the others) just amazing.  I wish I had this guy's skills Roll Eyes
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"People call me a "Doctor", but only for my skills.  I know nothing of healing the flesh.  Metal, steam, and what I discover in the wastelands are the tools and techniques for my creations in the new world." - Dr.B.Goodall, Wasteland Explorer
RJBowman
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 07:37:07 pm »

What kind of power do they get out of this engine?
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Colonel Hawthorne
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2016, 08:35:18 am »

That is one of the most beautiful things I've seen!  Thanks for posting, Dr Goodall.
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Colonel Sir Julius Hawthorne
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Keith_Beef
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2016, 01:29:56 pm »

What kind of power do they get out of this engine?

I don't think it makes any power at all. It's driven by compressed air; unless the compressor is driven by a perpetual motion machine, I don't think it is of any practical use.

But as a thing of beauty and a demonstration of the mechanical workings of a reciprocating engine, it's great.

On the other hand, the River Don engine in the Kelham Island industrial museum used also to be driven by compressed air, and has recently been converted back to steam; if this W18 engine was piped up to a steam generator, that would be brilliant!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 01:32:24 pm by Keith_Beef » Logged

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Keith
RJBowman
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2016, 04:08:14 pm »

What kind of power do they get out of this engine?

I don't think it makes any power at all. It's driven by compressed air; unless the compressor is driven by a perpetual motion machine, I don't think it is of any practical use.

I'm not asking how much power is going into it. I'm asking if it's powerful enough to do anything. Would this motor drive a machine, turn a generator, or propel a car?
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Maets
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2016, 05:59:09 pm »

Beautiful!

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Wormster
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 05:49:18 pm »

I'm not asking how much power is going into it. I'm asking if it's powerful enough to do anything. Would this motor drive a machine, turn a generator, or propel a car?

I would imagine that the motor is quite capable of powering a boat (or some sort of vehicle*), either on compressed air or live steam!

(* not to thread hijack but look here  for some cool creations)
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Maets
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 05:58:09 pm »

Without lubrication, it is not going to run for long.  Especially, under load.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2016, 08:46:12 pm »

What kind of power do they get out of this engine?

I don't think it makes any power at all. It's driven by compressed air; unless the compressor is driven by a perpetual motion machine, I don't think it is of any practical use.

I'm not asking how much power is going into it. I'm asking if it's powerful enough to do anything. Would this motor drive a machine, turn a generator, or propel a car?

In order for the engine to be able to power anything, it needs to be able to unlock energy internally from combustion.  The valves shown would have to admit fuel and air and combine it to create detonations in the cylinder cavities. Only then can you estimate power output. Without knowing whether the engine is even rigged up to take any kind of fuel, it's impossible to know what the performance is.  As it is shown the engine can't output any power. That is what Mr. Beef told you.

Perhaps we could if we extrapolate from the cylinder size, fuel type and air flow capacity, and data from known 4 stroke engines' efficiency, etc (not 2-stroke like model engines).
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Maets
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 09:17:10 pm »

No need for combustion.  Powering it with compressed air results in a net horsepower available on the shaft.  The fact that the air was previously compressed need not even be considered. 

Or power it with steam.  this is steampunk after all. Something has to create the steam, but this is true with every steam engine.

Overall it is a beautiful device and more of a piece of art than a functional motor.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 11:09:16 pm »

No need for combustion.  Powering it with compressed air results in a net horsepower available on the shaft.  The fact that the air was previously compressed need not even be considered. 

Or power it with steam.  this is steampunk after all. Something has to create the steam, but this is true with every steam engine.

Overall it is a beautiful device and more of a piece of art than a functional motor.

But Mr. Bowman's questions is "How much power?" I was basing my answer on this being a representation of an internal combustion engine. Otherwise, in my mind, it needs the compressed air tank or boiler data for anyone to pull an estimate, right?  The power estimate for compressed air is necessarily derived from the pressure available from the air tank. The W-12 configuration - thermodynamic cycle, and friction/inertia on valves, pistons, crankshaft, etc. will set the upper limit for performance.
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Dr.B.Goodall
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2016, 03:21:32 am »

You could get a rough idea of power output if you knew the following...
1. How many pistons are being "driven" down by the compressed air / steam at any one time (or on average);
2. The surface area of each piston
3. The distance of the crank arm from the crankshaft pivot point.
4. Estimated frictional force losses (as a percent).
5. The pressure of the supplied air / steam.

Technically ... "5" x ("1" x "2") would provide the force output of the engine, which then needs to have "3" factored in to calculate to torque, and then multiplied by (100 - "4") to get the estimated output.

I didn't post this little engine and a "practical" example, more a work of skill and art.  As Maets said - without lubrication, it won't last long under load.  However, the design could be modified to provide some form of lubrication (submerging the crankshaft in an self-contained oil bath would be one idea).
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2016, 02:10:35 pm »

This will certainly produce a measurable amount of power. Think of it as a very complex air ratchet or impact wrench like you'd find in a mechanics shop. They can produce a lot of power. This isn't designed to produce a lot of power but the fact that it's rotating means it's producing power.

To measure output you'd put it on a dyno and measure the torque at the crank. From there you can calculate power into which ever unit you prefer.

It doesn't matter what powers it. All that matters is how much torque is produced at the crank.
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