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Author Topic: Prosthetics or Augmentations?  (Read 854 times)
Bines
Gunner
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United States United States



« on: June 26, 2016, 03:06:31 pm »


I see a lot of costume arms and hands in Steampunk. Are they meant to be prosthetics or augmentations?

A prosthetic would be to say one has lost a limb, and has replaced it with this device. 

An augmentation would be where one is enhancing their existing limb with a mechanism. They may also be going for Steampunk cyborg.

There are people in this world, more than a few who are returned war veterans, who wear prosthetics because they have to. They really did get a hand, arm or leg blown off. It's a traumatic injury in every sense of the term. Doing myself up with one for fun seems a bit crass. It would feel like making fun of injured people.

Okay. So don't do it. Yes. That's easy enough. What I want to know is, how do you, dear reader, feel about it?
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walking stick
Zeppelin Admiral
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England England


« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 04:04:35 pm »

I think you should look at this thread before you make sweeping judgment on who we all are.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47846.0.html

More than a few of us are dealing with some form of physical limitation, I go by Walking Stick because I use one and expect to need a mobility scooter soon.

A costumer I know has only one hand.  she costumes with her prosthesis and with various replacements. For instance her pirate outfit has a sword rather than a hook on the shorter limb. 

One of the fun things about steampunk is that you can use it to get creative with what you have.   
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RJBowman
Zeppelin Captain
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 04:18:28 pm »

I think that most of the costumers are aiming for the appearance of a prosthetic, mainly because it is a more familiar apparatus, and maybe is more associated with historic time periods, but exoskeletons are not entirely absent from history. A Russian named Nicholas Yagn patented a pneumatic suit in 1890:

The suit was supposed to used compressed air to augment movements. The apparatus shown in the drawing appears to use cords to transfer energy from back-mounted actuators worn to the wearer's legs. The device appears to lack any framework or braces to strengthen the wearer's body.

I've never seen this suit cosplayed, but it would be a good candidate.
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Peter Brassbeard
Zeppelin Captain
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United States United States



« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2016, 04:28:52 pm »

I've seen around here both prosthetics by people who need them, and costume pieces that work with healthy limbs.  It all depends on the individual.
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Bines
Gunner
**
United States United States



« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 04:34:56 pm »

I think you should look at this thread before you make sweeping judgment on who we all are.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47846.0.html

More than a few of us are dealing with some form of physical limitation, I go by Walking Stick because I use one and expect to need a mobility scooter soon.

A costumer I know has only one hand.  she costumes with her prosthesis and with various replacements. For instance her pirate outfit has a sword rather than a hook on the shorter limb. 

One of the fun things about steampunk is that you can use it to get creative with what you have.   


You'll have to point out to me where I made a sweeping judgment on anyone. Especially when what I did was ask a question in a neutral fashion, with two possible views given, and specified how I "myself" would feel costuming a prosthetic.
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Bines
Gunner
**
United States United States



« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 04:47:27 pm »

I think that most of the costumers are aiming for the appearance of a prosthetic, mainly because it is a more familiar apparatus, and maybe is more associated with historic time periods, but exoskeletons are not entirely absent from history. A Russian named Nicholas Yagn patented a pneumatic suit in 1890:

The suit was supposed to used compressed air to augment movements. The apparatus shown in the drawing appears to use cords to transfer energy from back-mounted actuators worn to the wearer's legs. The device appears to lack any framework or braces to strengthen the wearer's body.

I've never seen this suit cosplayed, but it would be a good candidate.


Now that is an augmentation. Fiction is full of power suits. Ironman, Doc Ock, War Machine, and many more.
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walking stick
Zeppelin Admiral
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England England


« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2016, 07:00:32 pm »

I apologize for taking your comment as an insult.  You should still look at this thread. 

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47846.0.html

A very brave and determined man making the best of a bad situation.
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Bines
Gunner
**
United States United States



« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2016, 08:45:45 pm »

So'kay. No blood came out.  Cool

Otto von Pifka's story is what I mean. If I were costuming a prosthetic, and he came along, I'd feel like a cad. The only up side would be if it were a really good one that an amputee could get some ideas from.

That said, I wear prescription glasses, but don't get bent over people costuming with various types of spectacles. I think it's silly when hipsters do it to look cool, but the whole thing is another thing entirely.

I also have slight hip dysplasia and tinnitus. I'll take them over a lost limb any day.

Bottom line, for me, I think costuming a fake prosthetic is not cool. An augmentation? Great! That's classic sci-fi stuff. Ripley fought an alien in a power suit.

Now, if one actually requires a prosthetic, and they Steampunk it out- hats off to em. Way to make the best of it.
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RJBowman
Zeppelin Captain
*****


« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2016, 10:23:37 pm »

I think that most of the costumers are aiming for the appearance of a prosthetic, mainly because it is a more familiar apparatus, and maybe is more associated with historic time periods, but exoskeletons are not entirely absent from history. A Russian named Nicholas Yagn patented a pneumatic suit in 1890:

The suit was supposed to used compressed air to augment movements. The apparatus shown in the drawing appears to use cords to transfer energy from back-mounted actuators worn to the wearer's legs. The device appears to lack any framework or braces to strengthen the wearer's body.

I've never seen this suit cosplayed, but it would be a good candidate.


Now that is an augmentation. Fiction is full of power suits. Ironman, Doc Ock, War Machine, and many more.


I'm not aware of power suits in any early science fiction; the earliest in comics was Hugh Hazard who climbed inside his robot to fight crime in 1939. I'd wager that Nicholas Yagn's patent application beat the science fiction writers by a couple of decades, but if anyone can provide an earlier example in fiction or fact, I'd love to know about it.

Yagn's suit appears to be designed strictly to augment walking; possibly to aid an invalid, or to relieve a fatigued soldier on a long march.

Has there been any significant discussion of power suits in this forum? I have a vague memory of having linked to Yagn's drawing before, but I don't remember much else.
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Bines
Gunner
**
United States United States



« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2016, 11:23:53 pm »

I think that most of the costumers are aiming for the appearance of a prosthetic, mainly because it is a more familiar apparatus, and maybe is more associated with historic time periods, but exoskeletons are not entirely absent from history. A Russian named Nicholas Yagn patented a pneumatic suit in 1890:

The suit was supposed to used compressed air to augment movements. The apparatus shown in the drawing appears to use cords to transfer energy from back-mounted actuators worn to the wearer's legs. The device appears to lack any framework or braces to strengthen the wearer's body.

I've never seen this suit cosplayed, but it would be a good candidate.


Now that is an augmentation. Fiction is full of power suits. Ironman, Doc Ock, War Machine, and many more.


I'm not aware of power suits in any early science fiction; the earliest in comics was Hugh Hazard who climbed inside his robot to fight crime in 1939. I'd wager that Nicholas Yagn's patent application beat the science fiction writers by a couple of decades, but if anyone can provide an earlier example in fiction or fact, I'd love to know about it.

Yagn's suit appears to be designed strictly to augment walking; possibly to aid an invalid, or to relieve a fatigued soldier on a long march.

Has there been any significant discussion of power suits in this forum? I have a vague memory of having linked to Yagn's drawing before, but I don't remember much else.


Now I'm on the hunt. And now have a new reading list.  Grin

Edison's Conquest of Mars
According to Wikipedia, this book has space suits.

The First Men in the Moon
This one is a stretch. The book was published in 1901, so it counts. The movie was produced in 1964. In the movie, the moon landing party wears space suits. Wiki says there are three other movies based on the book.

I'm counting space suits because they are suits that augment (empower) a person to perform in ways they could not without the suit.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 11:26:48 pm by Bines » Logged
chicar
Rogue Ætherlord
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Canada Canada


Student in Techno-Shamanism and Lyncanthrope

Chicar556
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2016, 02:14:44 am »

I personally think than transhumanism have is place in steampunk, so augmentations have is place as well.
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The word pagan came from paganus , who mean peasant . Its was a way to significate than christianism was the religion of the elite and paganism the one of the savage worker class.

''Trickster shows us how we trick OURSELVES. Her rampant curiosity backfires, but, then, something NEW is discovered (though usually not what She expected)! This is where creativity comes from—experiment, do something different, maybe even something forbidden, and voila! A breakthrough occurs! Ha! Ha! We are released! The world is created anew! Do something backwards, break your own traditions, the barrier breaks; destroy the world as you know it, let the new in.''
Extract of the Dreamflesh article ''Path of The Sacred Clown''
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
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Immortal
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United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2016, 03:37:18 am »

I personally think than transhumanism have is place in steampunk, so augmentations have is place as well.

I agree. It's my own personal opinion, but Steampunk being primarily a type of science fiction, does often touch on the subject of body modification. It is very much part of the literature, so I'm not sure where that places your average "sartorial player*" who wears paraphernalia that mimics replacement limbs. Is it offensive or not?  I'm still not sure, but if I write about a body-challenged fictitious character in a novel, I don't think that should be off-limits. Otherwise we could not invent characters of any kind, lest we offend people who are similar to those characters, yes?


*who i will not call cosplayer, because that is a very different and specific activity related to Anime/Manga, much like a historical re-enactor is not Steampunk either.
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VampirateMace
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


Mein Hexapod


« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 04:46:59 am »

You do bring up an interesting point concerning sensitivity, though I don't think anyone costuming with a prosthetic or augmentation is trying to make fun or harass anyone. A lot of players chose military or naval personas, so given the risk of the career and the medical knowledge of the alternate time-line, it does seem logical prosthetics would pop up.

Glasses. I was teased so horribly I decided to get contacts at a rather young age, so now when I see teens wearing fashion glasses, I don't understand it in the slightest.
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RJBowman
Zeppelin Captain
*****


« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2016, 05:28:19 am »

You might also check out Lady Mechanika; a sort of clockwork bionic woman in a very lush steampunk setting. Dynamite Entertainment also introduced a steampunk version of Steve Austin in a steampunk series that included multiple licensed characters such as the Phantom and Vampirella.
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Atterton
Time Traveler
****

Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2016, 07:22:35 am »

There is also a fine line between prostethics and augmentations. Think Geordi's visor or a swiss army hand replacement, with other implements than a hook.
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Resurrectionist and freelance surgeon.
Kensington Locke
Officer
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United States United States


« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2016, 03:28:45 pm »

By default, nobody means offense when they wear a costume piece.  That extends to a costume piece over a limb that implies some sort of augmentation or prosthetic.

So unless the wearer is running around laughing at cripples, any insult is due to the viewer taking insult, not the wearer giving.

The world would be a lot happier if folks got this and stopped championing causes over imagined slights.

Now is it in poor taste to make a costume element for an imaginary disability, like a peg leg, glasses, robot arm replacing a real arm?  I'd say it probably depends on how it was done. 

Somebody might bind their real arm behind their back.  They might build a brass skeletal arm replacement which looks really cool (and better because it's not bulked up by overlaying a real arm.

That in turn might inspire a real amputee to do something cool with their prosthetic.

Personally, I've got projects in mind to build augmentations like a leg brace with piston to improve mobility for somebody with a damaged leg that would be worn over the trousers.  My friend wants an arm augment, but we figure to do the leg first to work out the basic engineering, then do hers more elegantly.  Another friend, we plan to do a big robo-hand replacement, thought that could be considered a glove, rather than actual hand prosthetic.

Normally, I'd say if the original hand/body part is in view, the costume piece is an augmentation.

Not that I'm keen to pretend to replace a bodypart, but as a builder, if I can't make it visually obvious that this replaced a body part, I'm inclined to approach it as an augmentation.
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