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Author Topic: Rant about jewellery...  (Read 3640 times)
steelhips
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« on: May 30, 2016, 05:40:47 am »


I might earn myself some censure or rap over the knuckles from the Mods for this.  Sorry in advance.

Can we please move on from relatively modern watch movements stuck on mass produced pendant/earring/broach/ring/cuff-link base with the occasional glued on crystal?  Do they still sell?  Way back when (must be over 13 years ago) when I first saw an 19th century gold pocketwatch movement magnificently engraved used as jewellery. It still blows my mind the workmanship on a part of a watch that would be rarely looked at.  It deserved to be seen and transformed especially after it couldn't be used as a working pocketwatch.  13 years on this once brilliant idea has certainly run its course. 

I just shake my head when I see page after page of watch movement jewellery on Etsy.  We are more creative than this.  We can reuse watch parts in more creative ways. Gears can be used without looking like they're slapped on to fit the genre. 

Love to hear other people's view on this.
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selectedgrub
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 07:08:41 am »

I am not one to bash any ones talent, lack of or their will to try.
If they can make a buck off it, no skin off my nose.
 
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Hektor Plasm
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 09:44:53 am »

I suppose, like writing, one has to start somewhere. The secret is to know when to release things out into the world... and when not to.

However, I do see your point, but if not for the bad, the good wouldn't look as special  Wink

HP

(Starting to climb the fence, to sit on it....  Undecided )
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Prof. Cecily
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 10:12:55 am »

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen
I am not one to bash any ones talent, lack of or their will to try.
If they can make a buck off it, no skin off my nose.
 

I'm with you, sir.

I remain yours,
Prof. Cecily
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Drew P
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 02:31:44 pm »

Nope, sorry, I totally agree with Ms. Steelhips.
I abhore most jewelry made of antique watch parts, but mainly ones that use whole movements. Slapping some premade thingamabob onto a movement with hot glue is not talent. Ok, maybe a little bit is used for some have difficulty using a screwdriver (like my brother).
It looks like the same pieces are replicated over and over. Boring, no though, no imagination, and a waste of watch parts/art.
How many pieces has one seen where almost the entire movement is covered up and the beauty of the movement is no longer seen. Doesn't makes sense to see something fantastic then cover it up. Plus, I know for a fact that a lot of movements just need a little bit of work to get back to working order. And I've seen pieces that the parts are worth way more that the entire piece. Find out what you have, sell it to someone who cares and then buy a very inexpensive and new mechanical movement to takes it's place. This way you save a piece of 'art' for the future to see/use and you can use a movement in your jewelry that would actually work. A necklace with a movement that 'ticks', that would be different!

Problem is, quality for the most part is down the drain. The realization of what is quality is unknown to most, it's all 'wow' factor for the first instant and then taken that this is how it should be. Getting all starry-eyed over shiny things.

....and then it's claimed as "ALL hand made"............

I can't jump on that train.
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CPT_J_Percell
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 03:22:08 pm »


I might earn myself some censure or rap over the knuckles from the Mods for this.  Sorry in advance.

Can we please move on from relatively modern watch movements stuck on mass produced pendant/earring/broach/ring/cuff-link base with the occasional glued on crystal?  Do they still sell?  Way back when (must be over 13 years ago) when I first saw an 19th century gold pocketwatch movement magnificently engraved used as jewellery. It still blows my mind the workmanship on a part of a watch that would be rarely looked at.  It deserved to be seen and transformed especially after it couldn't be used as a working pocketwatch.  13 years on this once brilliant idea has certainly run its course. 

I just shake my head when I see page after page of watch movement jewellery on Etsy.  We are more creative than this.  We can reuse watch parts in more creative ways. Gears can be used without looking like they're slapped on to fit the genre. 

Love to hear other people's view on this.


Just Glue Some Gears On It (And Call It Steampunk)
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Herbert West
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 11:03:50 pm »




Says it all really.
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Wirecase
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 08:10:01 am »

Indeed mr. West, indeed...
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Penny Lovelace
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 08:47:47 pm »

I can see both sides of this.
For some, it is a means of achieving Steampunk jewellery without spending an arm and a leg. Plus, some people may want to just get a bit crafty and have never done it before. Not everyone is interested in one-off pieces and spending a fortune on jewellery they may only intend to costume in once or twice a year. 'Steampunk Lite', if you will.

However as a budding metal work jewellery designer, I can see the pain in this. One day, when I feel good enough and have the tools to start selling, I'm going to have to battle against the tide of cheap adornments. Eep Shocked
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frances
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 12:34:02 am »

When jewellery-makers show their stuff on here I try very hard to be really tactful.  One does not want to put off new craftspeople, we all start at the beginning after all.  But there are too many items that are just, eg, chain, bead, key in a row.
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Caledonian
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 09:18:07 am »

I'm not sure how to feel about this :/
I have made jewelry from gears, but i have always tried to be creative...oh well.
If anyone has been 'tactful' around me, please tell the truth because i want to improve.
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Miranda.T
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2016, 10:59:19 am »

People here are probably already aware of this, but you can buy a Stempunk jewellery kit: https://www.amazon.co.uk/myStyle-MS112-Steampunk-Jewellery/dp/B00YCIDBK2. Now, this may be seen as the absolute work of the devil, but I'll admit my (then 7 year old) wished for it, received it and thoroughly enjoyed putting the pieces together; it was a good introduction to jewellery making for her age. But please do not worry, the outcomes of this are not going up on etsy any time soon!

I think a lot depends on the artistic skill with which the piece is put together. If the constituent parts are  are treated as a creative medium and assembled in an interesting and aesthetically pleasing manner, is it an issue if it is simply that - just a pleasing form? After all, do we generally demand anything else from our adornments? I bought a nice gothy silver, red and black heart necklace from one of the WGW stalls a few weeks ago, but the fact that it doesn't actually pump is not an issue.

However, the thought of finding a working mechanism and having that function as a part of the jewellery has got me thinking; I'll have to see what I can pick up at the next vintage fair...

Yours,
Miranda.
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steelhips
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 11:38:54 am »


I'm sorry - let me clarify.

I love gears and, albeit an SP trope, I use watch gears in many of my designs.  I try to avoid orphan gears because I want them to look like they are part of an actual working mechanism.  What has me ranting are whole, mass produced, modern, watch movements (circa 1970s) glued on to a jewellery base. I guess I just think it's a bit creatively lazy and/or "band meet wagon".  Those that cynically think they can sum up a creative community by producing thousands of pieces. 

Maybe I'm just going mad (and jealous) because I spend 16 to 22 hours on one piece when they spend five seconds? I've been lurking around the forum for many years now and I've really appreciated the nurturing and encouragement.  I certainly don't want to tread on a creative spark just starting out.  I have no quarrel with people buying cheaper pieces for a one off event or kids starting out with an SP jewellery kit but I'd love to see members and creatives strive for better.  Use new and unusual components (but don't try to sell Tritium pieces on Etsy - they won't let you).  Push boundaries.  Make that finish as perfect as an imperfect human can.
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frances
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United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 10:07:19 pm »

I made myself a pair of earrings out of a bit of old watch and added a few beads.  I like wearing them but I would never dream of trying to sell them to anyone else.  So many steampunks are creative and makers that I would think it an insult to expect them to purchase something so basic.

I try to recommend that beginner makers research what other people are making so that they can get their eye in.  Hopefully their creativity will then be heightened and more interesting and complex items will result.
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Prof. Cecily
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2016, 11:32:32 am »

Good afternoon,ladies and gentlemen.
Ah, that eternal divide between making something and selling something.
And yes, the horrors at Etsy.

There's a huge to-do in Spain about stands at ComicCons and similar basically doing just that. There's presently a move to outlaw reselling tarted up Ali express baubles.It'll be interesting to see  how far it's possible to control  such merchandise.

I remain yours,
Prof. Cecily
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cossoft
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United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2016, 02:57:00 pm »

Since I don't know nothing about no jewellery, please disregard everything following the following full stop.  If you're still reading this, you missed it.

The argument might wander into areas of over commercialisation and main stream(ism) that have been much debated in other threads, but the financial attractiveness of Steam Punk cannot be ignored.  I think that this particular thread further highlights evidence of this commercial invasiveness.  Etsy might be taken as a gauge# of the level of market maturity.  If enough of you shout loudly enough, you might put it past the tipping point into market decline.  Then Steam Punk becomes passé or perhaps Kitsch if enough time has passed.  Ad infinitum?

This is of course the eternal conflict between the  artisan and the speculator.  History (unfortunately for some) shows that the speculator will win in the long term unless you happen to be an incubating Picasso.  I admit that “winning” is subject to your particular metric, but I'm thinking most money, most media coverage, most social impact.  Steam Punk can of course be treated simply as a sales channel akin to all else.  Remember Steam Beans?  It's sad but apparently true on this planet.  The Star Trek universe sees artistry and science as self fulfilling in themselves, but of course that series was contemporary escapism founded in the fears of imminent thermonuclear war.  Self actualisation is considered the ultimate stage of physiological development, but a quick buck is also very alluring.  Just where is this post going?

As for quality, this also seems to be a modern peculiarity of western culture.  You may be ranting about the poor quality of a Pound Shop's Kwality Steampunk “effect” full height floor lamp, yet I'm willing to bet that you're doing so on a mass produced off the shelf PC, wearing off the shelf mass produced underwear.  Unless of course you're very dedicated to the Steam Punk lifestyle.  It might be interesting to undertake a PhD researching this trend.  Not the underwear thing.

And as for Spanish regulation, I think that there might be issues of EU competition and free market arguments that preclude an country's unilateral restrictions on what some would call value added commerce.  If you think that the stuff you make is any good and distinguishable, there might be the remedy of a design patent.  But then that reverts to the other threads' problem; what is Steam Punk in a legal sense?  A good with cogs?  Ouch!

Music punk.  Steam punk.  Stuckists punk.  Is it time for the artists to punk on somewhere else, and be happy?


---

# Etsy search this morning  - All categories “steampunk” (233,181 Results).  This excludes alternate spellings.
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MWBailey
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2016, 02:59:02 am »


I might earn myself some censure or rap over the knuckles from the Mods for this.  Sorry in advance.

Can we please move on from relatively modern watch movements stuck on mass produced pendant/earring/broach/ring/cuff-link base with the occasional glued on crystal?  Do they still sell?  Way back when (must be over 13 years ago) when I first saw an 19th century gold pocketwatch movement magnificently engraved used as jewellery. It still blows my mind the workmanship on a part of a watch that would be rarely looked at.  It deserved to be seen and transformed especially after it couldn't be used as a working pocketwatch.  13 years on this once brilliant idea has certainly run its course. 

I just shake my head when I see page after page of watch movement jewellery on Etsy.  We are more creative than this.  We can reuse watch parts in more creative ways. Gears can be used without looking like they're slapped on to fit the genre. 

Love to hear other people's view on this.




I tend toward using gears and parts thereof as decorative elements. They're great for creating fan and half-moon shapes (when drawn in, at least). I keep intending to cut or break some individual gears to effect a kind of art deco/art nouveau(sp?) type of motif, but keep getting sidetracked. Maybe I'll draw up a comp of the basic idea if I can get around to it and scan tonight or tomorrow. I also remember somebody a few years back posting pics of a dress, dressing gown or coat that featured sewn-in patches in the shapes of sections of gears in the lining That's the kind of usage of gears that I'd like to see, not the pasting-on of piles of cogs. My two cents.
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frances
Zeppelin Captain
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United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2016, 10:21:14 pm »

Cogs and things are aesthetically beautiful and I am not against using them.  Infact I embroidered lots on some pink lace that I made into a top hat cover and then added a few real ones with jewels ontop.  They are part of the design not imposed upon the design from on high.  This is what some beginner jewellery-makers need to take into account.
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Prof. Cecily
Snr. Officer
****
Spain Spain



« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2016, 08:15:47 am »

Good morning,ladies and gentlemen.
...
And as for Spanish regulation, I think that there might be issues of EU competition and free market arguments that preclude an country's unilateral restrictions on what some would call value added commerce.  If you think that the stuff you make is any good and distinguishable, there might be the remedy of a design patent.  But then that reverts to the other threads' problem; what is Steam Punk in a legal sense?  A good with cogs?  Ouch!
....
So sorry to be misleading- the regulation will not be on the part of the Spanish government,but rather on the part of the organisation of Expomanga,Japanweekend and similar events.

I remain yours,
Prof. Cecily

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Rockula
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Nothing beats a good hat.


« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 11:23:50 am »

Someone makes jewellery.
Someone puts that jewellery up for sale.
Somebody likes it and buys it.
Somebody else doesn't like it so doesn't buy it.

I see no problem with this.

I only have a problem with the kind of quickly knocked-off jewellery prepared with little thought and with the only intention being that of making a quick buck.
 The kind of stuff that is spammed around the internet and hyped as some kind of new innovation.

Where there's brass there's muck.
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Penny Lovelace
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2016, 11:53:24 pm »

Where there's brass there's muck.
Grin
And oil. So much oil.
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steiconi
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 10:19:14 am »

Sadly, I think crafting has been forced into the mass market.  In the 1990s, I used to design projects for craft magazines.  The rule of thumb was that 85% of the project should consist of buying manufactured items, and only 15% actual crafting.  (I even got a bonus from some manufacturers for featuring their products in a published design.  And if I said, "Paint it red," people would write in to ask what brand and color number red paint.)  In contrast, I have old craft books from the 1940s and earlier that have the crafter doing everything but grow the cotton and weave the fabric.

So if the do-it-yourselfer just expects to assemble a few items, a total non-crafter must have an immensely low expectation for originality or creativity and is probably thrilled by the metal cicada with the gears glued on.
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Drew P
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2016, 11:32:21 am »

^Agreed, and it is such a horrible realization.
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Hektor Plasm
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 12:33:20 pm »

I've noticed this, with a lot of 'how to' coming from the US- the Brand is a shortcut in many low-class productions; rather than specify a type - say of glue- a brand is used instead; this make it easier for the unskilled to put together a shopping list, but can be a nightmare to follow from a country that doesn't carry that particular brand- not because it is a unique product, but because it is not described fully.

eg Elmers glue- is that just PVA? Or is it special...  (That's just an easy example. Try finding out what a Fahnestock clip is called ... in 1970's UK, pre Google ) It takes up valuable time for those who know what they are doing (!) whilst saving time for those who don't.

Odd, isn't it.  Wink

HP
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Narsil
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 06:13:28 pm »


I might earn myself some censure or rap over the knuckles from the Mods for this.  Sorry in advance.

Can we please move on from relatively modern watch movements stuck on mass produced pendant/earring/broach/ring/cuff-link base with the occasional glued on crystal?  Do they still sell?  Way back when (must be over 13 years ago) when I first saw an 19th century gold pocketwatch movement magnificently engraved used as jewellery. It still blows my mind the workmanship on a part of a watch that would be rarely looked at.  It deserved to be seen and transformed especially after it couldn't be used as a working pocketwatch.  13 years on this once brilliant idea has certainly run its course. 

I just shake my head when I see page after page of watch movement jewellery on Etsy.  We are more creative than this.  We can reuse watch parts in more creative ways. Gears can be used without looking like they're slapped on to fit the genre. 

Love to hear other people's view on this.

I 100% agree.

This is not at all about snobbery or elitism. I would much rather see somebody try something challenging and get it wrong than take the line of absolute least resistance to produce something sort of adequate with no real path for improvement.

This is not just about my own sensibilities but a frustration that there seems to be little drive for people to master processes which are initially difficult but offer a long term learning process which might result in them making art which is actually personal to themselves.

Similarly the problem is not really that material quality or the product or the 'originality' of the design but the fact that the lack of any kind of ambition or real enthusiasm.

I am more than happy to advise and encourage anybody who wants to do something ambitious but doesn't know where to begin. What annoys me is people who only want the easiest and quickest possible solution to a creative problem.
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A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress.
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