The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
November 21, 2017, 12:53:11 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Brassgoggles.co.uk - The Lighter Side Of Steampunk, follow @brasstech for forum technical problems & updates.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Gurkha Equipment in the Indian Subcontinent  (Read 1064 times)
Mme. Ratchet
Officer
***
United States United States


« on: May 11, 2016, 10:37:37 am »

Hey everybody. I was hoping I might be able to get some information on what the Gurkhas had with them while fighting in the Indian Sub-continent, particularly those who were carrying cartridge firearms (starting with the P-1864 Snider-Enfield up through the Mk IV Martini-Henry, as they continued to use single-shot breechloading rifles until the Sht. Magazine Lee-Enfield (SMLE) rifles came through (might have used Long Magazine Lee-Enfields, too, but the only Magazine Lee-Metfords used were used by royal guards).

Additionally, what type of equipment did British personnel use for the various cartridge firearms they used during the same time period?
Logged
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 03:08:13 am »

Firstly, it is important to point out that whilst many outsiders believe "Great Britain" ran the show in India, it was technically
the "East India Company" until the Government of India Act of 1858
see  "The East India Company - The World's Most Powerful Company"

http://tinyurl.com/EIC-da-book
  and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

snip-------------------
Originally chartered as the "Governor and Company of Merchants of London trading into the East Indies", the company rose to account for half of the world's trade, particularly in basic commodities including cotton, silk, indigo dye, salt, saltpetre, tea and opium. The company also ruled the beginnings of the British Empire in India.[3]

The company received a Royal Charter from Queen Elizabeth on 31 December 1600,[4] making it the oldest among several similarly formed European East India Companies. Wealthy merchants and aristocrats owned the Company's shares.[5] The government owned no shares and had only indirect control.

The company eventually came to rule large areas of India with its own private armies, exercising military power and assuming administrative functions.[6] Company rule in India effectively began in 1757 after the Battle of Plassey and lasted until 1858 when, following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, the Government of India Act 1858 led to the British Crown assuming direct control of India in the form of the new British Raj.
endsnip----------------


Gurkhas could volunteer to serve in the "East India Company Army" and later the British Army

Since you are the proud owner of a Ghendra and are interested in the eras encompassing the Snider and
Martini-Henry, we can discuss the accoutrements of post-1857 ( ie post-mutiny) when the British turned to
the Gurkhas, Sikhs, Punjabi, and the Pathans .

Prior to 1880 the predominant uniform color was dark green, dark blue, or black.
In 1878 British India began to adopt “khaki" for field operations,
producing a range of shades from bottle green to a light brown drab.

You would probably be most interested in 2nd Prince of Wales’s Own Gurkhas and the 2nd thru 5th Gurkhas.

here is an image of the 3rd Gurkhas in camp, but it does not show much of their kit.
http://cdn-0.britishbattles.com/second-afghan-war/ahmed-khel/3rd-gurkhas.jpg

Typically the Gurkhas carried the issued rifle, leather cartridge box and belts, ammunition, the issue knapsack or backpack, bedroll, canteen, and Kukri. Going into battle they would ditch the knapsack, bedroll and often the canteen.

Gurkha ( left) pre-British Regiment:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/circa-1868-from-left-to-right-a-gurkha-a-brahmin-and-a-sood-in-garb-picture-id3089866

Nusseree Battalion later known as the 1st Gurkha Rifles circa 1857 - note the Snider Rifles, leather cartridge boxes
interesting hats and Kukri Knives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Nusseree_Battalion.JPG

Snider, Kukri, Green Uniform, Hat, crossed belts:
http://images-02.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/091/080/748_001.jpg


more  Gurkha links
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/gurkha.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha

regarind your q: Additionally, what type of equipment did British personnel use for the various cartridge firearms they used during the same time period?

it was pretty much little more than leather belts, cartridge boxes, and holsters for the issue Webley.

yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium

Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions and Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
RJBowman
Zeppelin Captain
*****


« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 03:31:51 am »

Ospry publishes a series of books called "Men at Arms: Enemies of Queen Victoria", one volume of which covered India and Afghanistan. The book is heavy on illustrations and may have images of some of the weapons that you are looking for.
Logged
Mme. Ratchet
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 06:44:15 am »

RJBowman, I will have to look around for a copy
Logged
Mme. Ratchet
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 06:51:51 am »

Firstly, it is important to point out that whilst many outsiders believe "Great Britain" ran the show in India, it was technically
the "East India Company" until the Government of India Act of 1858
see  "The East India Company - The World's Most Powerful Company"

http://tinyurl.com/EIC-da-book
  and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

snip-------------------
Originally chartered as the "Governor and Company of Merchants of London trading into the East Indies", the company rose to account for half of the world's trade, particularly in basic commodities including cotton, silk, indigo dye, salt, saltpetre, tea and opium. The company also ruled the beginnings of the British Empire in India.[3]

The company received a Royal Charter from Queen Elizabeth on 31 December 1600,[4] making it the oldest among several similarly formed European East India Companies. Wealthy merchants and aristocrats owned the Company's shares.[5] The government owned no shares and had only indirect control.

The company eventually came to rule large areas of India with its own private armies, exercising military power and assuming administrative functions.[6] Company rule in India effectively began in 1757 after the Battle of Plassey and lasted until 1858 when, following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, the Government of India Act 1858 led to the British Crown assuming direct control of India in the form of the new British Raj.
endsnip----------------


Gurkhas could volunteer to serve in the "East India Company Army" and later the British Army

Since you are the proud owner of a Ghendra and are interested in the eras encompassing the Snider and
Martini-Henry, we can discuss the accoutrements of post-1857 ( ie post-mutiny) when the British turned to
the Gurkhas, Sikhs, Punjabi, and the Pathans .

Prior to 1880 the predominant uniform color was dark green, dark blue, or black.
In 1878 British India began to adopt “khaki" for field operations,
producing a range of shades from bottle green to a light brown drab.

You would probably be most interested in 2nd Prince of Wales’s Own Gurkhas and the 2nd thru 5th Gurkhas.

here is an image of the 3rd Gurkhas in camp, but it does not show much of their kit.
http://cdn-0.britishbattles.com/second-afghan-war/ahmed-khel/3rd-gurkhas.jpg

Typically the Gurkhas carried the issued rifle, leather cartridge box and belts, ammunition, the issue knapsack or backpack, bedroll, canteen, and Kukri. Going into battle they would ditch the knapsack, bedroll and often the canteen.

Gurkha ( left) pre-British Regiment:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/circa-1868-from-left-to-right-a-gurkha-a-brahmin-and-a-sood-in-garb-picture-id3089866

Nusseree Battalion later known as the 1st Gurkha Rifles circa 1857 - note the Snider Rifles, leather cartridge boxes
interesting hats and Kukri Knives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Nusseree_Battalion.JPG

Snider, Kukri, Green Uniform, Hat, crossed belts:
http://images-02.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/091/080/748_001.jpg


more  Gurkha links
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/gurkha.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha

regarding your q: Additionally, what type of equipment did British personnel use for the various cartridge firearms they used during the same time period?

it was pretty much little more than leather belts, cartridge boxes, and holsters for the issue Webley.

yhs
prof marvel


Professor,

I greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge you've shared here. I had been under the impression that they all wore bright red just like the British regulars. Looking through the pictures and links was certainly fascinating as well. I am certainly the proud owner of more than just a Gahendra, as well. I have a couple of khukris and a Martini-Francotte, as well.

Regarding the picture of them with Sniders, it appears that the cartridge box they are using is the same as the older version for the 1853 Enfield rifle-musket, but without the cap pouch on the chest strap. Does that sound accurate?

Regards,
Mme. Ratchet
Logged
Prof Marvel
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 12:44:28 am »

Greatings My Dear  Mme. Ratchet

Terribly sorry for my brain-hiccup - the rifles pictured with the Gurkhas are actually the Brunswick, ~ .70 cal
used from 1836 to 1885 and is obvious from the trigger guard with the grip detail:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Brunswick.jpg

here is some discussion on the Nepalese Brunswicks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_rifle
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9343/Who-made-the-Brunswick-Rifles#.VzewFL69nIU

thus the boxes shown are most likely earlier than we might have thought.

Apparently the Brits were economical regarding accouterments  as I have found for sale
this
http://lepierreleathers.miiduu.com/18591871-enfield-cartridge-box
"1859 Enfield Cartridge Box, 1860 model or 1871 model that has been converted for the Snider Enfield and Martini Henry Rifles"

For examples of cartridge boxes , these fellows in NZ seem to do a right smart job:
http://www.nzrifle.com/vma_leatherware.htm

scroll down for some great examples such as the 1859:
http://www.nzrifle.com/images/vma_images/leatherware/cartridge_box_pat1859/cartridge_box_p1859/cartridge_box_p1859_facing.jpg

hope this helps
prof ( brain toast) marvel
Logged
Mme. Ratchet
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 01:13:36 am »

Greatings My Dear  Mme. Ratchet

Terribly sorry for my brain-hiccup - the rifles pictured with the Gurkhas are actually the Brunswick, ~ .70 cal
used from 1836 to 1885 and is obvious from the trigger guard with the grip detail:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Brunswick.jpg

here is some discussion on the Nepalese Brunswicks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_rifle
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9343/Who-made-the-Brunswick-Rifles#.VzewFL69nIU

thus the boxes shown are most likely earlier than we might have thought.

Apparently the Brits were economical regarding accouterments  as I have found for sale
this
http://lepierreleathers.miiduu.com/18591871-enfield-cartridge-box
"1859 Enfield Cartridge Box, 1860 model or 1871 model that has been converted for the Snider Enfield and Martini Henry Rifles"

For examples of cartridge boxes , these fellows in NZ seem to do a right smart job:
http://www.nzrifle.com/vma_leatherware.htm

scroll down for some great examples such as the 1859:
http://www.nzrifle.com/images/vma_images/leatherware/cartridge_box_pat1859/cartridge_box_p1859/cartridge_box_p1859_facing.jpg

hope this helps
prof ( brain toast) marvel


I thought they looked a bit weird for being a Snider. I actually have a Brunswick officer's musket on layaway with IMA that I am paying on (the interest rate on it is obscene! Trying to get it paid down ASAP!) That does help quite a bit, though.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.168 seconds with 16 queries.