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Author Topic: Need to pick your collective brain...  (Read 1323 times)
ralnor
Deck Hand
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United Kingdom United Kingdom


« on: March 11, 2016, 12:35:56 pm »

So, the other month, I found myself in a Derbyshire Town on Flea Market day.

I shall set the scene...

There was a stall there, hanging proudly from its veranda was a Enfield Rifle, several grenades and a Colt Army Model 1860 (All decativated, of course). For some reason, I felt drawn to the stall. On the stall were boxes of medals, shell casings, tin helmets, shotgun hulls, leather belts, bayonets, etc...

I spent a while, chatting with the stall owner. His main interest was the first world war, but he told me he'd got some other pieces from other time periods he'd acquired over the years. I explained I was a steam punk, looking to accessorise. At this, he started digging in a suitcase under his stall and presented me with a dirty old gun he admitted to knowing nothing about.

Long story short, he thought it was a replica, had never been a live weapon, and didn't think it was worth anything, so he let me take it.
I'll confess, I know very little about firearms, replica or otherwise.

Gave the gun a bit of a polish when I got home, and the only markings on it I can find are :

"Hadley 1780"

I put this into google and all I get are a bunch of ancestry results.

Does anyone on here know anything about this piece? I can post some pictures up, if anyone thinks they might be able to assist.

Thanks.
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Madasasteamfish
A clanger waiting to be dropped......
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09madasafish
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 03:15:02 pm »

Well pictures may well help us get a better fix on things, but then, so would a more detailed description of the piece since it would at least give us something more to go on. With the information you've thus provided I'm not sure what more I can give you.
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ralnor
Deck Hand
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United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 05:35:14 pm »

Hello!

Yes, good point :-D

Here you go!







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Crescat Scientia
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


Fabricator and temporally confused.


« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 05:41:23 pm »

It does look like the sort of pretty, romantic replica made by the thousands  be mounted on mid-twentieth century den walls in the post-WWII nostalgia kick.  Beyond that I don't know much.
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Madasasteamfish
A clanger waiting to be dropped......
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09madasafish
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 06:25:47 pm »

Yeah, pretty sure that's a modern replica. A google image search for "London Hadley 1760" (as it appears on the barrel) reveals a load of similar looking reproduction pieces, including this one:



The big giveaway would be to look under the barrel and ramrod (if it can be removed) and check for a stamp saying 'made in X'. But even if it is a replica, you've got a good deal since the period accurate ones tend to fetch a pretty penny.
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selectedgrub
Guest
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 10:55:56 pm »

Drill the fake screws out and put real ones in.
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ralnor
Deck Hand
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United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 11:50:53 pm »

Cheers for that, folks.
Now, question is...do I leave it as it is, or do I dismantle it and see if I can re-model it somewhat.

And, Madasasteamfish, the only stamp I can find on it is "Forsyth Patent" and the ramrod is fixed in place.
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Madasasteamfish
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09madasafish
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 11:20:26 am »

Yep, it's almost certainly a reproduction then (the Forsyth Patent refers to it using a percussion cap as the firing mechanism which a few minutes on google shows as being invented too late for the 1760 date on the weapon). My advice personally would be to investigate reenactment forums and the like to get an idea of how much these types of things sell for second hand before you do anything (just so you can avoid losing yourself a potential wodge of cash) and then decide what you want to do with it.
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Dr.B.Goodall
Gunner
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United Kingdom United Kingdom

Be Good All! ;)


« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 10:15:52 pm »

I think a lot of people have missed a point here ... a guy selling old WW2 and other older weapons and memorabilia was able to pick out a perfect starter gun for you, just based on your explanation of you being a "Steam Punk" - that's pretty cool in itself! Cheesy

I've also done a bit of hunting and found the same info the other guys have mentioned - so it's most probably a reproduction.

The Flintlock (circa 1610-1840) actually has a piece of flint stone held in it's firing arm, which your's doesn't, (it looks like a percussion cap instead).

Apparently, the Percussion Cap kicked off around 1820, with a design that looked something like this.  All of the searches I have tried under the details of your "gun" either come up with Flintlock pistols (and some rifles), and a few variations of your gun, all showing a Percussion Cap type configuration, which as Madasasteamfish basically said, came way too late in history for the apparent date of this "gun".

So I'd quite happily say, modify away! Cheesy

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:41:26 pm by Dr.B.Goodall » Logged

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ralnor
Deck Hand
*
United Kingdom United Kingdom


« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2016, 05:09:21 pm »

Yeah, he was a nice chap, might have to see if I can find him again to show him what I've done with it!

Thanks again for the feedback, one and all!
I think I'll go ahead and mod it...doesn't seem to be worth a tremendous amount.
I'll stick up pictures once I've finished, if that's acceptable?

  Cheesy
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Madasasteamfish
A clanger waiting to be dropped......
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09madasafish
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2016, 05:22:43 pm »

Yeah, he was a nice chap, might have to see if I can find him again to show him what I've done with it!

Thanks again for the feedback, one and all!
I think I'll go ahead and mod it...doesn't seem to be worth a tremendous amount.
I'll stick up pictures once I've finished, if that's acceptable?

  Cheesy

Oh feel free. It's always nice to see what people do with "unassuming" stuff.
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Fairley B. Strange
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Relax, I've done much dumber things and survived..


WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 11:20:00 am »

I'd second getting it appraised for it's value as an accurate re-enactors prop before gluing the cogs onto it.

A Forsyth patent was an early version of the percussion cap - the scentbottle shaped iten on the side rocked forward and back on its axis and deposited a small pinch of cap composition from the bottle onto the anvil as it rocked past, then when the tip of the 'bottle' was back under the hammer, it positioned the striker pin over that pinch  for the hammer to drop. So a mechanical primer refilling system, that was replaced by the individual primer cups, mainly as scraping off little pinches of sensitive primer was eventually a bit risky if it got overly sensitive or initiated the whole contents at once. They were an interesting stage between the older flintlocks and the modern percussion primer.
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MWBailey
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rtafStElmo
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 05:39:25 pm »

I'd second getting it appraised for it's value as an accurate re-enactors prop before gluing the cogs onto it.

A Forsyth patent was an early version of the percussion cap - the scentbottle shaped iten on the side rocked forward and back on its axis and deposited a small pinch of cap composition from the bottle onto the anvil as it rocked past, then when the tip of the 'bottle' was back under the hammer, it positioned the striker pin over that pinch  for the hammer to drop. So a mechanical primer refilling system, that was replaced by the individual primer cups, mainly as scraping off little pinches of sensitive primer was eventually a bit risky if it got overly sensitive or initiated the whole contents at once. They were an interesting stage between the older flintlocks and the modern percussion primer.



Bet me to it!

Yep, it's a scentbottle replica.
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 06:25:27 pm »

A Forsyth patent was an early version of the percussion cap - the scentbottle shaped iten on the side rocked forward and back on its axis and deposited a small pinch of cap composition from the bottle onto the anvil as it rocked past, then when the tip of the 'bottle' was back under the hammer, it positioned the striker pin over that pinch  for the hammer to drop. So a mechanical primer refilling system, that was replaced by the individual primer cups, mainly as scraping off little pinches of sensitive primer was eventually a bit risky if it got overly sensitive or initiated the whole contents at once. They were an interesting stage between the older flintlocks and the modern percussion primer.

That is a really bizarre mechanism. Then again, after the Puckle gun and the Webley-Fosbery "automatic revolver" I suppose nothing should surprise me.
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