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Author Topic: Airship Class  (Read 6470 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2015, 07:04:21 pm »



Of course all of this is fantasy, and I should not be a pedant about it.  But being an aeronautical engineer I feel too bad if I don't point out that is way too much mass for the gas bags, not to mention balance and stability issues.

When hauling that much weight, I find the argument of a fantastical magnetic of gravity levitation system much more appealing.  Hence I go back to Last Exile type ships... If I'm doing fantasy, I prefer to use a bit more fantasy to justify my fantasy  Wink


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Not a problem with the Leviathan; that world posits a 1914 where the nations of humanity have scavenged technology from the failed 1899 Martian invasion, so they're using Tesla's interpretations of Martian technology for propulsion, lift, weaponry, etc.

You should really check out that film; the animation for the various bits of Earth-Martian hybrid technology and the overall design work is quite impressive. (The animation for organic beings, and some of the story elements...meh, but overall it's still worth watching.)

War of the Worlds Goliath Official Trailer #1 (2014) - Animated Sci-Fi Movie HD





Looks intersting.  I never even found out about it.  I guess I had too much going on last year.  The dreadnaught class Zeppelin is reminiscent of the battle ships in Last Exile...


Last Exile Opening - Textless


Mobile: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SUjiXriGFbo

Last Exile - Battle for the skies


Mobile: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T5boCKoH1Wg
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 07:21:54 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2015, 03:51:09 pm »

Whoof! I love those visuals!

(Even the music reminds me of WotW:  Goliath!)

While I am in complete agreement that our aeroships should follow practical aeronautical designs/physics as much as possible, I am also reminded of a workshop I attended once. One of the writers on the panel regarding science fiction technology made the following point:  writers of mysteries and detective novels don't bother telling people how a gun works.

Granted, for writers like Jules Verne (who said he wrote "scientific romances") describing the nuts and bolts was the point. But for writers like H.G. Wells, the technology was just the jumping off point for the story.

In short, whatever makes your aeroship fly, just make certain it is apropos to your story. Whether the technical aspects are the point of your tale or just a tool for your tale is up to the writer.
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2015, 05:19:11 pm »

I do think it is important to stay consistent in your science fantasy.  If you are bringing technical in, then everything should fit into the same space.
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2015, 05:44:56 pm »

Oh, I absolutely agree. Regardless your medium (print, film, audio, 2D or sculptural art), your tech needs to maintain the internal logic of the story you're telling, even if the recipient of your medium (reader, viewer, listener) isn't told all the details.

For example, I'm extremely interested in the interior of an aeroship...is there room enough for all the personnel needed to run the vessel, plus supplies, plus cargo, plus the machinery and materiel that makes it work, and still be the desired size, shape and perform the functions desired? And I'm having a devil of a time finding internal drawings of comparable steam ships for comparison.

Ah, well...

But speaking of Airship Class, what could be more classy than an Airship Regatta?

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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2015, 05:59:23 pm »

As an exercise, I'm going to post images from around the aethernet of designs by different artists, and have you provide the function and class of the aeroship. (You're not in my classroom, so I'll ask rather than require that you justify your response.) I'll post the images individually, so you can "quote" it more easily in your response.

I trust it goes without saying that any thoughts along the lines of practicality of the designs, along with what would be required to make the design functional, are also encouraged.

The first:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/443323157044278642/
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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2015, 06:02:44 pm »

I don't know how feasible this would be for low-Earth orbit, as depicted, but what about middle- to upper-atmosphere?

(p.s. This one reminded me immediately of Silent Running...)


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/443323157044641306/
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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2015, 06:05:05 pm »

This one seems similar to what J. Wilhelm had described earlier in the thread:


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/443323157044392930/
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« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2015, 06:07:14 pm »

This one strikes me as a personal pleasure craft of some sort:


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/443323157043763172/
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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2015, 06:17:22 pm »

I haven't figured out what class is the current airship I am building.  With the past builds I started with an idea of the class and built to suit it.  This was much more of a build and figure out what it is later.  Any thoughts:





See more at:
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46183.0.html
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« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 06:19:46 pm »

I haven't figured out what class is the current airship I am building.  With the past builds I started with an idea of the class and built to suit it.  This was much more of a build and figure out what it is later.  Any thoughts:





See more at:
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46183.0.html


Ye gods, I love this thing.
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« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2015, 06:20:34 pm »

I'd love to see more of the aeroship design in this picture, but what I can see intrigues me...


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/66639269459904362/
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« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2015, 06:26:21 pm »

This one almost seems like a real thing...

"Spacedock"? A floating maintenance/repair station? Something for wireless communications?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/395683517232646621/

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« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2015, 06:28:53 pm »

The artist calls this one a freighter. If it didn't say so right on the side, what would you think it was?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/572872015071346280/

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« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2015, 06:36:03 pm »

Vessel? Docking platform? Both?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/326440672963522540/

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« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2015, 06:41:10 pm »

A floating city or palace?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/574912708659345537/

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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2015, 06:46:14 pm »

I haven't figured out what class is the current airship I am building.  With the past builds I started with an idea of the class and built to suit it.  This was much more of a build and figure out what it is later.  Any thoughts:





See more at:
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46183.0.html



Well, if you go with my cattle freighter suggestion, the cattle can enter through the hole in the envelope   GrinGrin
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« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2015, 06:48:49 pm »

I haven't figured out what class is the current airship I am building.  With the past builds I started with an idea of the class and built to suit it.  This was much more of a build and figure out what it is later.  Any thoughts:





See more at:
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46183.0.html



Well, if you go with my cattle freighter suggestion, the cattle can enter through the hole in the envelope   GrinGrin


But do you want the methane to be that close to the craft's lifting gas? Or is the methane the lifting gas?
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« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2015, 06:49:50 pm »

So what do you think the story is on the giant armillary spheres on these aeroships, if you even think that's what they are?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/10977592816661699/
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« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2015, 06:51:48 pm »

Whoof! I love those visuals!

(Even the music reminds me of WotW:  Goliath!)

While I am in complete agreement that our aeroships should follow practical aeronautical designs/physics as much as possible, I am also reminded of a workshop I attended once. One of the writers on the panel regarding science fiction technology made the following point:  writers of mysteries and detective novels don't bother telling people how a gun works.

Granted, for writers like Jules Verne (who said he wrote "scientific romances") describing the nuts and bolts was the point. But for writers like H.G. Wells, the technology was just the jumping off point for the story.

In short, whatever makes your aeroship fly, just make certain it is apropos to your story. Whether the technical aspects are the point of your tale or just a tool for your tale is up to the writer.
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« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2015, 07:01:33 pm »

I haven't figured out what class is the current airship I am building.  With the past builds I started with an idea of the class and built to suit it.  This was much more of a build and figure out what it is later.  Any thoughts:





See more at:
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46183.0.html


What I want to call this vessel is "Mine!"

(But meanwhile, in the real world...)

The prow makes me think this is a pleasure barge, except the envelope seems excessive to the task. However, as you've established that there is more going on up there than just the lifting gas, a merchant vessel of some sort? That figurehead would make a heck of an advertisement that you were back in town with new wares.

"Hey! Horny Harry's back!" or, "Oh, look, Dear! The gentleman with that Texican beast is docking. Might we see if he's got a new supply of cocoa?" or, "Longhorn Lawrence's Likely Legal Libations is coming in. Time to get the drunk tank cleaned out again..."

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« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2015, 07:07:58 pm »

What I would normally take to be the places the lifting gas goes seems too small for the size of the craft in relation to known real-world technology/lifting gases, unless the artist is implying some sort of Cavorite or other Handwavium (technology specific to the artist's depicted world). Otherwise, is this supposed to be a heavier-than-air vessel, either with- or without some lifting gas assistance...?


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/355784439283795507/
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« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2015, 07:46:52 pm »

It is amazing the number of artist drawings of airships that are out there.  Up til now I have purposely avoided looking at artist drawings as not to be influenced.  Fun to see all the wild ideas.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2015, 09:22:24 pm »

I don't know how feasible this would be for low-Earth orbit, as depicted, but what about middle- to upper-atmosphere?

(p.s. This one reminded me immediately of Silent Running...)


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/443323157044641306/


It's a matter of definition.  Its not about altitude. It's about speed. Being in orbit implies you are in free-fall toward Earth, but along a path that because of your speed (eg 17000 mph) does not intersect the Earth's surface. If you are stationary with respect to the surface of the Earth, you will feel the full force of gravity and buoyancy is your only way to stay aloft, like a meteorological balloon.  You can be at an altitude of 200 miles floating in a balloon and be considered to be in space with a very low atmosphere density.  You stop climbing when the stress on the balloon is too much and it bursts, or when there isn't enough atmosphere to hold you any higher.  So say at the edge of the atmosphere defined as whatever density you feel is "the edge."  That already may intersect low Earth orbit.  Remember the "Space Elevator?"

PS it's also a very dangerous exercise, because the balloon is stationary and objects in orbit are traveling over 17000 mph past you.  Like the shooting gallery from hell.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 09:28:57 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2015, 10:01:48 pm »

It is amazing the number of artist drawings of airships that are out there.  Up til now I have purposely avoided looking at artist drawings as not to be influenced.  Fun to see all the wild ideas.

Being influenced is not a bad thing.  It will push you out of your zone of comfort.
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« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2015, 11:05:16 pm »

It is amazing the number of artist drawings of airships that are out there.  Up til now I have purposely avoided looking at artist drawings as not to be influenced.  Fun to see all the wild ideas.


What you do is equally awe-inspiring.

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You never let me down before..."

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