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Author Topic: Things that make you go WTF? MkII  (Read 27276 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #575 on: June 21, 2017, 03:30:57 am »

I remember learning about this in college in Flight Dynamics, and Aircraft Design classes. But I never thought that I'd see it in the US.

Today, temperatures in Phoenix, Arizona are expected to be so high, 120 F/ 49 C, that dozens of airplane departures from the airport were cancelled.

As temperature rises, the atmosphere expands and the density of air decreases (because the atmosphere is not contained in a rigid vessel). The net result is that during takeoff wings on aircraft can't produce enough lift. The problem will affect the maximum lifting capacity of the airplane, and in extreme circumstances whether the plane can take off at all.

The same happens when an airplane tries to take off from a high altitude location, say Lima, Peru. We got taught to design an airplane for takeoff at the highest altitude possible and the hottest temperature at the location, that way the airplane can take off from any airport in the world.

Problem is, that design criterion is not enough. Phoenix, at a relatively low altitude has bested that baseline.  Today one of the largest airports in the country is partially paralyzed due to high temperatures...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40339730


They might still take off, if they had enough runway or enough power to get going fast enough, soon enough, to get airborne before the existing runway runs out - or if they could fly without a payload. Unfortunately, the combination of engines that powerful with enough fuel to do the job would be so heavy that they might still not be able to lift off. The weight, speed and air density problem is a rather frustrating and thorny one (there's a ring on E 6B pilot computing reckoners that deals with the  air density equation(s) in question).

C-47 pilots ferrying supplies and personnel between Japan and Korea during the Korean war faced a similar problem; conditions were borderline OK for getting airborne under normal weight  standards, but they were under pressure from the upper-echelon brass to carry as much materiel and personnel as possible each trip. The overloaded transports (usually) got airborne, but in many or most cases were unable to rise farther than a couple of hundred feet above the waves (and often were forced to fly much lower). A few, including the one that my Dad almost went back on at the end of his leave, didn't make it and crashed into the Sea. He got bumped off by an officer (Dad was a corporal), and stayed behind, taking the next "gooney bird" an hour later. Fortuitously, as it turned out...
Today I asked one of my customers. He works for American Airlines. He told me it was mostly the smaller / short haul jets like the 72 passenger jets made by Bombardier that were grounded. BTW my "Project Zarquon" VTOL airplane was based on a Bombardier high wing design. I think that would be a great problem solver for high/hot airports. You can direct some of the thrust downward at the expense of fuel, at least until you climb to some altitude.  There would be an effect on engine performance (low pressure and hight temperature affects everything including turbojet performance.

The larger jets did nor suffer that problem, he said. Noting that the tenperature over the runway can be even higher probably 130 F it also affects landing (need higher speeds longer runway). There is however one precedent for this problem in large aircraft, namely the Boeing 747 SP is a shortened version of the 747. With a significantly smaller number of passengers but with the same wing as the full size 747, it was specifically designed for trans oceanic flights serving cities like Johannesburg and Sydney.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 03:33:32 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

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« Reply #576 on: June 21, 2017, 06:49:00 pm »


They might still take off, if they had enough runway or enough power to get going fast enough, soon enough, to get airborne before the existing runway runs out - or if they could fly without a payload. Unfortunately, the combination of engines that powerful with enough fuel to do the job would be so heavy that they might still not be able to lift off. The weight, speed and air density problem is a rather frustrating and thorny one (there's a ring on E 6B pilot computing reckoners that deals with the  air density equation(s) in question).

C-47 pilots ferrying supplies and personnel between Japan and Korea during the Korean war faced a similar problem; conditions were borderline OK for getting airborne under normal weight  standards, but they were under pressure from the upper-echelon brass to carry as much materiel and personnel as possible each trip. The overloaded transports (usually) got airborne, but in many or most cases were unable to rise farther than a couple of hundred feet above the waves (and often were forced to fly much lower). A few, including the one that my Dad almost went back on at the end of his leave, didn't make it and crashed into the Sea. He got bumped off by an officer (Dad was a corporal), and stayed behind, taking the next "gooney bird" an hour later. Fortuitously, as it turned out...
Today I asked one of my customers. He works for American Airlines. He told me it was mostly the smaller / short haul jets like the 72 passenger jets made by Bombardier that were grounded. BTW my "Project Zarquon" VTOL airplane was based on a Bombardier high wing design. I think that would be a great problem solver for high/hot airports. You can direct some of the thrust downward at the expense of fuel, at least until you climb to some altitude.  There would be an effect on engine performance (low pressure and hight temperature affects everything including turbojet performance.

The larger jets did nor suffer that problem, he said. Noting that the tenperature over the runway can be even higher probably 130 F it also affects landing (need higher speeds longer runway). There is however one precedent for this problem in large aircraft, namely the Boeing 747 SP is a shortened version of the 747. With a significantly smaller number of passengers but with the same wing as the full size 747, it was specifically designed for trans oceanic flights serving cities like Johannesburg and Sydney.



Spoke to Dad a few minutes ago. Seems I made a couple of mistakes in retelling his experience with the C-47.
1. He was on his way to Japan on leave, leaving from the military airstrip on the beach on the Korean coast (not sure where, he didn't seem to want to say).
2. the officer who died in the crash at sea was coming from Japan, and was not the one who bumped Dad from his flight.

and finally,
3. The runway was of "normal" length, but was of the prefab, metal-lath type that came into use in the previous war (WWII) for use in areas with sandy, not-firm soil conditions (such as the South Seas islands and beaches).

The story as he retold it just now was that the C-47s would taxi from the hangar area where they had been loaded (usually dangerously overloaded, he said), to a position against the base's fence, something like a hundred yards or so from the beginning of the metal lath runway. There, the pilot would bring the engines to full rev (basically roaring at maximum, the whole plane shaking and creaking from the vibration and strain), with of course the landing gear brakes set (yes, they did have brakes on 'em back then). When full rev was reached, the pilot (or copilot, perhaps?) would release the brakes, and the plane would leap forward, hitting the leading edge of the metal lath runway at a relatively high rate of speed (Dad says the BUMP shook everybody up and all the cargo shifted slightly).

The plane would achieve almost sufficient speed to get airborne - and then run off of the end of the lath runway (!). Dad says that there was a considerable distance between the end of the lath and the water, so the planes would roar off down the beach, and just barely miss getting awash before lifting off- at an altitude roughly equal to about a foot higher than the bottom of the landing gear before they folded it up into the wing*. He said that the plane didn't get a whole lot higher than that for the entirety of that flight...



-------------------------
*Yes, I do realize that the standard wheel-up position for the C47  was into cavities under the engines, with the bottom of the wheel protruding, but Dad said what he said, and that's what I repeated.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 06:57:42 pm by MWBailey » Logged

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« Reply #577 on: June 21, 2017, 07:34:51 pm »

So I gather the landing gear had really good tires to be hit like that (tyres for you red coats), eh?  Grin

Sounds like fun times. My grandfather had some experience with old recycled DC-3's over the Eastern Sierra Madre. Apparently it was common during the early days a commercial aviation to have an engine go out in the middle of the flight. He recounted how beautiful the canyons were up close  Grin
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MWBailey
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« Reply #578 on: June 24, 2017, 04:10:22 am »

So I gather the landing gear had really good tires to be hit like that (tyres for you red coats), eh?  Grin

Sounds like fun times. My grandfather had some experience with old recycled DC-3's over the Eastern Sierra Madre. Apparently it was common during the early days a commercial aviation to have an engine go out in the middle of the flight. He recounted how beautiful the canyons were up close  Grin





I once fell off of the top of a lightpole that we were installing on the farm. Funny how you notice all of the beautiful details of everything in the scenery when you realize that you're in deadly danger...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 11:22:28 pm by MWBailey » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #579 on: June 27, 2017, 04:39:05 am »

So I gather the landing gear had really good tires to be hit like that (tyres for you red coats), eh?  Grin

Sounds like fun times. My grandfather had some experience with old recycled DC-3's over the Eastern Sierra Madre. Apparently it was common during the early days a commercial aviation to have an engine go out in the middle of the flight. He recounted how beautiful the canyons were up close  Grin

I once fell off of the top of a lightpole that we were installing on the farm. Funny how you notice all of the beautiful details of everything in the scenery when you realize that you're in deadly danger...


That's called LIVING son! You need to taste the steel of the blade that's about to cut you to appreciate the world around you!  Grin  Cheesy If the man had not succumbed to dementia, instead of passing away at age 95 he's still be active today!
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« Reply #580 on: July 18, 2017, 06:54:29 pm »

Not sure if this is a thing that makes me go "WTF?" or more like "Things that make you laugh so hard that you vomit, followed by the slow but increasing depression as you realise "I AM NEVER GOING TO SEE ANY OF THE STUFF WE WERE PROMISED WOULD HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE" and you feel just that little bit deader inside..."

Anyhow, feast your eyes on this:



Robot 'drowns' in fountain mishap




A security robot in Washington DC suffered a watery demise after falling into a fountain by an office building.
The stricken robot, made by Knightscope, was spotted by passers-by whose photos of the aftermath quickly went viral on social media.
For some, the incident seemed to sum up the state of 21st Century technology.
...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40642968


*sigh* Well, I suppose it's at least as fallible as a DALEK when it comes to stairs...  Grin
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #581 on: July 19, 2017, 04:54:31 am »

What are you talking about? that IS a Dalek! Just look at them! They're just missing the arms with the "drain plunger"  Grin "Exterminaaate!"

California Mall Implements Robot Security Guards


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« Reply #582 on: July 20, 2017, 02:44:30 am »

What are you talking about? that IS a Dalek! Just look at them! They're just missing the arms with the "drain plunger"  Grin "Exterminaaate!"

California Mall Implements Robot Security Guards





A quote from the guy at the company making robo-mall-cop:

"We could have gone two ways: friendly or ominous."

Sooo, 'giant butt-plug' is which one of those two options?   Grin
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MWBailey
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« Reply #583 on: July 21, 2017, 10:15:33 pm »

What are you talking about? that IS a Dalek! Just look at them! They're just missing the arms with the "drain plunger"  Grin "Exterminaaate!"

California Mall Implements Robot Security Guards





A quote from the guy at the company making robo-mall-cop:

"We could have gone two ways: friendly or ominous."

Sooo, 'giant butt-plug' is which one of those two options?   Grin





I did once see a dalek,,,uh... No, never mind...
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Madasasteamfish
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« Reply #584 on: July 22, 2017, 11:49:04 am »

Not sure if this is a thing that makes me go "WTF?" or more like "Things that make you laugh so hard that you vomit, followed by the slow but increasing depression as you realise "I AM NEVER GOING TO SEE ANY OF THE STUFF WE WERE PROMISED WOULD HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE" and you feel just that little bit deader inside..."

Anyhow, feast your eyes on this:



Robot 'drowns' in fountain mishap




A security robot in Washington DC suffered a watery demise after falling into a fountain by an office building.
The stricken robot, made by Knightscope, was spotted by passers-by whose photos of the aftermath quickly went viral on social media.
For some, the incident seemed to sum up the state of 21st Century technology.
...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40642968


*sigh* Well, I suppose it's at least as fallible as a DALEK when it comes to stairs...  Grin


SEE! This shows how messed up the world is right now.

Even the robots don't won't to live on this planet anymore!
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I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."
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« Reply #585 on: July 23, 2017, 10:24:08 pm »

Hot rain. A heavy thunderstorm about to start, and the temperature is 39 C / 102 F. I already had a hot shower this morning. I don't want a second one outside the house.  Undecided
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MWBailey
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« Reply #586 on: July 24, 2017, 08:19:12 pm »

Just take a block of ice and hold it on top of your head. Then it'll be a cold shower... Tongue
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« Reply #587 on: July 26, 2017, 05:17:28 pm »

In frustration at not finding anything in roomshares and rentals here that is remotely reasonable and being able to see all the new posts since yesterday in ten minutes, I got to thinking about my idea of traveling out to california for winter. So I went to have a look at LA roomshares and rentals and had my WTF of the day. I was expecting a harsh reality check of having to decide to live out of my car there for any times between couch surfing and other things, and instead what I see is 5 times as many roomshare options most at the same price as here some cheaper.

How the heck is it cheaper to get an apartment/roomshare in LA than it is in New Hampshire?

that's just not right.

I'm starting to think this is a sign that I should pull up and leave this state. It's kind of frustrating.
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« Reply #588 on: July 26, 2017, 09:18:09 pm »


How the heck is it cheaper to get an apartment/roomshare in LA than it is in New Hampshire?



Well that all depends heavily on what the area those cheaper places are in - from what I know of the place (from people I've known who live there), it can be kinda rough in even the good areas (and positively underwear-soiling scary in the bad areas!)....  However I have heard of some of the less expensive areas actually being quite a decent place to live.

Bit of a mixed bag really.  Undecided

Probably best to find out from the locals in an area as to what it's like to live there.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #589 on: July 27, 2017, 08:45:21 am »

In frustration at not finding anything in roomshares and rentals here that is remotely reasonable and being able to see all the new posts since yesterday in ten minutes, I got to thinking about my idea of traveling out to california for winter. So I went to have a look at LA roomshares and rentals and had my WTF of the day. I was expecting a harsh reality check of having to decide to live out of my car there for any times between couch surfing and other things, and instead what I see is 5 times as many roomshare options most at the same price as here some cheaper.

How the heck is it cheaper to get an apartment/roomshare in LA than it is in New Hampshire?

that's just not right.

I'm starting to think this is a sign that I should pull up and leave this state. It's kind of frustrating.

You and me both brother. I'm seriously thinking of packing up and moving from the state.

At issue is the fact that some places in the US (I'm not talking about your state, but rather mine), were for a very long time presumed to be more desirable, because the California economy has been tanking for so many years (decades, actually since the end of the Cold War), that every one was presumed to be leaving California for Texas, for example. What we have now in Texas is a real estate and housing bubble, and probably an employment bubble, without of control prices, while all the abandoned places in California are now going down in price and the California economy slowly rebounds upward. This is the right time to move to California, actually.

But do remember though that California is very expensive as well. Compared to Texas its about 33% more expensive on everything you can think of (e.g. food), and also you have a California state income tax besides your US Federal income tax (in Texas we don't have a Texas income tax). And distances in California are much longer. Everything is far away, the cities are far more spread - your car will wear out faster. So you got to think about that. But you will love the weather.

PS Does it have to be LA though? How about San Diego? San Francisco?  I lived for 7 years in San Diego. I think if I leave Texas I will go back there.

Find yourself a picturesque spot where you can make money from crafts or something. Maybe an outlier town like Temecula near San Diego. The state is so big, and the weather is fine almost everywhere. No snow. No 40C weather either (though LA can get very hot in summer too - just not remotely close to Texas),

The more I think about it, the more I want to end up in a small town near a major national park, like Yosemite.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 08:52:35 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #590 on: July 27, 2017, 08:11:11 pm »

How hot it is, where I live right now.

This is me walking to the parking lot around noon:

Chronicles of Riddick - Purifier walking on Crematoria
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LukeHogbin
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« Reply #591 on: July 31, 2017, 06:45:02 am »

We're in for our fifth heatwave this summer. And I don't look forward to it. I already have problems sleeping as is (I'm lucky if I can get more than 30 minutes of actual sleep in one piece) and the forecast for this week looks like an absolute murder.  Huh Where did the nice summer weather go  Huh
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« Reply #592 on: August 01, 2017, 07:39:25 am »

How hot it is, where I live right now.

This is me walking to the parking lot around noon:

Chronicles of Riddick - Purifier walking on Crematoria




Chin up, the hurricane season just started...
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #593 on: August 01, 2017, 11:09:43 pm »

One had to wonder what people are thinking if at all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40793544

Now when they say temperature over 100 F, that is what we have now in Texas, but I imagine it will be hotter in the desert and they have no shade to go to.
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« Reply #594 on: August 02, 2017, 08:13:36 pm »

Asked for a price on a job from a guy who does wrought iron work (steps and railings etc) and is local, and he came down a checked the job out. I wanted set of new steps from the decking (two / three), new step from side yard down into garden (one, maybe two) and a replacement set of garden stairs (currently steel fire escape style, which have rotten through - a total of nine steps in length).

He recommended I replace the steel stairs with a new set built from blocks and concrete steps, and a similar for the other two steps, and he would craft a set of new hand rails for each of them. OK, fair enough - I'm good with that!

Said he would be back with a guy who does his bricklaying work for him, and they would measure up for a price. Sure enough the guy popped down the other day and did just that. Having building work as a family business since 1880, I do happen to know costs and what things are likely to be. Rough calculation gave me around £700 - £1200 for two days work. Not too bad, but not cheap either.

Today I get a phone call from the iron work guy with the actual price....


£2,750!!


I said a few more words than just WTF at that price!   Shocked Shocked  I wondered if he had an addiction to Crack or something...Huh Huh

He said he was "keen to get started by this weekend"! I'm not f***ing surprised, so would I at that kind of profit!!
Obviously, he was informed that he would not be starting at all...   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #595 on: August 04, 2017, 12:59:32 am »

Large fire rips through Dubai's Torch Tower



A large fire has ripped through a residential skyscraper in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates - for the second time in two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40822269



Maybe, just maybe, calling the building "The Torch" was tempting fate a bit too much? Perhaps a local pyromaniac views it as a challenge??

Either way - the building is living up to it's name. At least there is symmetry...   Grin
 
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #596 on: August 04, 2017, 05:28:21 am »

At a cool 1/2 million per rental flat, I'd expect they'd have their own fire department, equipped with gilded fire engines.
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« Reply #597 on: August 04, 2017, 09:36:36 am »

We have a wonderful children's book "The adventures of captain Vrungel".

And there is a wonderful phrase - "As the ship you will name so it and will float".
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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
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« Reply #598 on: August 04, 2017, 05:26:40 pm »

What is wrong with people?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40823747
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« Reply #599 on: August 04, 2017, 06:48:01 pm »




The only good thing I can see from that, is the fact they are using "larger" (ie NORMAL...) sized women to model it.  That I like!  Grin

But yeah, that's right up there on the WTF category!
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