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Author Topic: clothing for winged humanoids (help?)  (Read 1044 times)
Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« on: July 15, 2015, 12:47:09 pm »

sorry for spamming you guys...
A little question
for a story I'm working on, what outfit does fit the Angli Species the best?

or maybe they should wear something completely different?

please keep in mind male, female and other angli will wear the exact same clothes.


here is additional angli information if you like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Deviette
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 12:59:26 pm »

Hmmm, well I think it depends on what their characteristics are like. For example: Are they a warrior-type species (no 5)? Or are they somewhat held in awe by other species (no 3)? Or are they humble (no 1)?
Another thought, what is the women/men equality. Would be worth thinking about if going for a bare chest.

I like the idea of no shoes though, if they have wings, then they probably don't need to use their feet much I guess.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 01:06:00 pm »

Angli on their own are a peaceful and tolerant species. they mind their own business and farm mushrooms in caves, harvest wood from the highest trees and trade with other species when they get the chance.
they tend to clash with human civilization though. after the humans discovered they are not angels (as they thought at first) they started to hunt the angli for reasons so far unknown. This has stopped by the time the story takes place, but the population of Angli is thinned drastically and discrimination towards angli is huge. they live somewhat separate now and the angli do what they've always done...

and despite history, some humans still act as if the angli species are angelic.

maybe it is usefull to know they live in warm areas with soft winters. they do not store fat and thus they are vulnerable to cold.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 01:13:39 pm by Caledonian » Logged
Deviette
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 01:30:01 pm »

Hmmm interesting, well for me I'd do something between 1 and 3 (for the somewhat angelic look, but with the implication of an outfit that may have changed over time to a slightly meeker style), but maybe mixing a bit of armour into it like a vambrace or gauntlet for their arms and something for their legs (as response to when they used to be hunted and used more protection).

Hope that's been useful :3
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 01:34:58 pm »

it's very useful! I'll get back to sketching. I'll update some drawings later...
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pakled
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 02:24:25 pm »

something that attaches up the back, but all that comes to mind are hospital gowns...Wink any of the pictures above look like they work.

Something with room for the wings, to allow clothes to fit around them would be the major sticking point. Aside from that, trousers or kilts, or whatever would be much the same.
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walking stick
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2015, 02:32:08 pm »

If they are that vulnerable to cold the Angli need hats or at least headscarves.  Braiding styles to keep the hair from whipping into their eyes would also be necessary.  Have you ever been out in a high wind with long hair, not easy.
 
Tunic from 1 leggings and socks from 2 add pockets from 4.  all pockets must be closeable.  I would consider how the back of the tunic would need to be adjusted to fit safely over wings.

Maybe footwear that has toes for grip when picking things up or landing on branches.

Have you thought of camouflage patterns on clothing and wings so they can hide in trees, among rocks or be less visible against clouds. If they are hunted they would surely want to be a little more difficult to find.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2015, 02:32:51 pm »

something that attaches up the back, but all that comes to mind are hospital gowns...Wink any of the pictures above look like they work.

Something with room for the wings, to allow clothes to fit around them would be the major sticking point. Aside from that, trousers or kilts, or whatever would be much the same.

I must be honest the kilt was a bit of a joke.
having a creature as playfull as a young anglico fly around with no underwear might not be a good idea.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 02:38:42 pm »

If they are that vulnerable to cold the Angli need hats or at least headscarves.  Braiding styles to keep the hair from whipping into their eyes would also be necessary.  Have you ever been out in a high wind with long hair, not easy.

they are exelent in braiding hair, as well as great lovers of flowy ribbons to keep their hair in a ponytail or braid.

Quote

Tunic from 1 leggings and socks from 2 add pockets from 4.  all pockets must be closeable.  I would consider how the back of the tunic would need to be adjusted to fit safely over wings.

Maybe footwear that has toes for grip when picking things up or landing on branches.

Have you thought of camouflage patterns on clothing and wings so they can hide in trees, among rocks or be less visible against clouds. If they are hunted they would surely want to be a little more difficult to find.

they do in fact dye their wings in different shades. darker wings are considdered more "manly" while brown or even withe wings are considdered attractive in females. they could also dye them in bright colours in celebrations. (like the coming off age ceremony in which young angli get tossed off the cliffs by their dads). I suppose they could aslo camouflage them.
it is a good idea, though, I will keep it in mind!
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GCCC
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2015, 03:26:38 pm »

With wings, the choices must first be made for function; the aesthetics would be secondary.

The back must needs be uncovered to allow the full range of motion needed for flight. Additionally, any article of clothing that would have to be pulled over the wings would be either improbable (some of us have trouble pulling shirts on over our glasses, let alone something as bulky as a wing) or unrealistically stretchy.

The best modern analogy I can think of is the halter top:  pulls on over the head (or ties around the neck), covers the front but leaves the back bare, then ties around the waist or in the back. Such a garment would also allow for long sleeves.
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MWBailey
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 04:35:34 pm »

(My apologies. I thought that I read where someone had said that the Angeli (?) could possibly avoid the need for body coverings if they lived in a tropical climate,. After looking back over the thread, I realize that I was in error. I think these thoughts still have some merit, however)

Sorry if somebody already said this. I feel it should be addressed if they haven't.

I'll admit it's an interesting and convenient idea for the people to live in tropical areas, and to assume that in such a case the air would be warm enough all the time even at a high altitude to make a form-covering garment unnecessary. Unfortunately, it's also pretty unrealistic given an Earthly model, since although temperatures vary greatly in the upper airs, by and large they tend to be several if not many degrees cooler than those near the ground. Not to mention the cooling effect of passage through an airmass.

Icarus flying too near the sun, for example, sounds plausible until one considers the fact that it's just not that hot up there (yes, I realize that it was a myth concocted with the prevailing cosmological model of the time, but still), until you begin to leave the oxygenated layers (and then only on the sunward side of an object). It gets hot in the cockpit of an airplane when it's in the sun, because you don't have the wind rushing over your body, but rather are in an enclosed space in a finite bubble of what amounts to still air, being heated by radiant heat - and above a certain altitude, even that heating does not sufficiently compensate for the cooling effect of the ambient outside temperature; the cockpit has to be artificially heated.

So, if you plan to keep it scientifically believable, some kind of garment would be necessary, even if the fliers stay within the first thousand feet of altitude, unless they are extremely hardy and able to withstand serious to extreme cold without bundling up.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 05:49:14 pm by MWBailey » Logged

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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 07:57:28 pm »

(My apologies. I thought that I read where someone had said that the Angeli (?) could possibly avoid the need for body coverings if they lived in a tropical climate,. After looking back over the thread, I realize that I was in error. I think these thoughts still have some merit, however)

Sorry if somebody already said this. I feel it should be addressed if they haven't.

I'll admit it's an interesting and convenient idea for the people to live in tropical areas, and to assume that in such a case the air would be warm enough all the time even at a high altitude to make a form-covering garment unnecessary. Unfortunately, it's also pretty unrealistic given an Earthly model, since although temperatures vary greatly in the upper airs, by and large they tend to be several if not many degrees cooler than those near the ground. Not to mention the cooling effect of passage through an airmass.

Icarus flying too near the sun, for example, sounds plausible until one considers the fact that it's just not that hot up there (yes, I realize that it was a myth concocted with the prevailing cosmological model of the time, but still), until you begin to leave the oxygenated layers (and then only on the sunward side of an object). It gets hot in the cockpit of an airplane when it's in the sun, because you don't have the wind rushing over your body, but rather are in an enclosed space in a finite bubble of what amounts to still air, being heated by radiant heat - and above a certain altitude, even that heating does not sufficiently compensate for the cooling effect of the ambient outside temperature; the cockpit has to be artificially heated.

So, if you plan to keep it scientifically believable, some kind of garment would be necessary, even if the fliers stay within the first thousand feet of altitude, unless they are extremely hardy and able to withstand serious to extreme cold without bundling up.

fair point, mister Bailey, but I did also never say angli fly very high. their limit would be around the highest trees in the area, not in the very cold spheres and not in full wind. they could, but it takes so much energy they basically never do to prevent crashlanding with spasms in their wings and a lowered body tempreture.
ít is good to realise though.
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Ada Thorold
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2015, 10:32:00 pm »

I agree with GCCC, you should design these as practical garments. A halter-neck is the easiest solution for the top half although there may be other solutions. For the bottom half, assuming modesty is still a concern for this race then trousers or a long skirt are the only viable options, a short skirt or kilt would expose too much. And if they are into acrobatic flight then a long skirt may not be useful either. Another concern may be weight (ruling out heavier fabrics).

~A~
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RJBowman
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2015, 11:16:14 pm »

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Flightless Phoenix
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2015, 11:48:37 pm »

Think some good points have been made regarding practicality - might be able to do something cool with buckles or brooches at the neck/shoulder area to hold up a garment which leave space for the wings - halter neck as mentioned above or racer back type designs are the obvious choices.

How about googles or helmets- think about motorbikes/convertible cars and early planes - you need something to keep your eyes from watering if you travel at any speed, especially in wind. Unless their eyes have biological adaptations e.g. third eyelid?

For fabric - I'm thinking wool might be a good bet - from mountain goats that live in areas which are most easily accessible from the air? Wool keeps you warm in the cold, cool in the heat and has good properties with regard to moisture. Also apparently it has good UV protection - that's useful when you are above the clouds! Strong too - which is important in garments that are going to be worn by an active flyer. Leather reinforcements at joints/areas of most wear perhaps - also from goat hide? I know leather was used for early flight suits e.g. WWI.

Think about pocket locations too - if you are flying and need to access a tool e.g. for cutting a branch or harvesting mushrooms, then where is it easy to reach? As mentioned above - some method of fastening pockets is essential - easy to open with one hand perhaps?

Also one small point - in your original description you state that hips are narrow and feminine. In humans female hips are wider - which is better for giving birth, but less efficient for bipedal motion. Seeing as walking isn't the primary mode of locomotion that might not be as much of an influence on evolution of this species? Or if they aren't using mammalian reproduction then narrow hips for all would be fine too... You can tell I've studied anatomy a little- sorry for making a mountain out of an off-topic molehill. I thought it might be of interest because physical form affects the clothing choices.
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GCCC
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2015, 12:42:04 am »




To which I can only say:

GORDON'S ALIVE!!!
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2015, 08:45:29 am »

Think some good points have been made regarding practicality - might be able to do something cool with buckles or brooches at the neck/shoulder area to hold up a garment which leave space for the wings - halter neck as mentioned above or racer back type designs are the obvious choices.

How about googles or helmets- think about motorbikes/convertible cars and early planes - you need something to keep your eyes from watering if you travel at any speed, especially in wind. Unless their eyes have biological adaptations e.g. third eyelid?

For fabric - I'm thinking wool might be a good bet - from mountain goats that live in areas which are most easily accessible from the air? Wool keeps you warm in the cold, cool in the heat and has good properties with regard to moisture. Also apparently it has good UV protection - that's useful when you are above the clouds! Strong too - which is important in garments that are going to be worn by an active flyer. Leather reinforcements at joints/areas of most wear perhaps - also from goat hide? I know leather was used for early flight suits e.g. WWI.

Think about pocket locations too - if you are flying and need to access a tool e.g. for cutting a branch or harvesting mushrooms, then where is it easy to reach? As mentioned above - some method of fastening pockets is essential - easy to open with one hand perhaps?

Also one small point - in your original description you state that hips are narrow and feminine. In humans female hips are wider - which is better for giving birth, but less efficient for bipedal motion. Seeing as walking isn't the primary mode of locomotion that might not be as much of an influence on evolution of this species? Or if they aren't using mammalian reproduction then narrow hips for all would be fine too... You can tell I've studied anatomy a little- sorry for making a mountain out of an off-topic molehill. I thought it might be of interest because physical form affects the clothing choices.


oops. I ment to say "waist" not their hips. my mistake, sorry. they are mammals, though.
wool sounds good untill you realize what it weights. it is pretty heavy aand would weight down too much when getting damp like stated here:

I agree with GCCC, you should design these as practical garments. A halter-neck is the easiest solution for the top half although there may be other solutions. For the bottom half, assuming modesty is still a concern for this race then trousers or a long skirt are the only viable options, a short skirt or kilt would expose too much. And if they are into acrobatic flight then a long skirt may not be useful either. Another concern may be weight (ruling out heavier fabrics).

~A~

to which I would say that they are (depending on age and personality) some angli are indeed acrobatic flyers while others value grace. and modesty is a 'sort-off' concern, for example they find absolutely nothing sexual about breasts, but may prefer people not to stare directly into their crotch. nobody said they don't wear underwear though.

back to

Origionally I thought to just not give them upper clothing at all...and I haven't thought of pockets that much. I know that the males use their wing-claws to grab onto branches like bats may, to not have to keep flying while working. females (and #o@oh
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that have not yet reached puberty) have to find other ways, as they don't have claws. this means they can reach pockets almost everywhere as they will be hanging. if they want to do something they'll have to stop flying anyway, as as far as I know they are not hummingbirds and can't hoover in one place.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2015, 12:10:02 pm »

fresh from the drawing board! (along with two others I did not yet colour)

so in the first one, I tried to keep track off all your ideas and combine them a little. I kinda like the result.
the second was a random idea that popped up vaguely inspired on african clothing. I think it contributes to an exotic look more than this first one does. it's basically three pieces of cloth wrapped around the body and kept in place with belts.

also note: the look of my 'models' is random and not specifically bound to the clothing they are wearing.

((I will number the designs or name my models for further discussion...))
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walking stick
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2015, 01:23:24 pm »

I like the first figure, I think you could still have sleeves rather than the wrist brace and armbands.  The second outfit looks impractical for flight but perhaps suitable for a domestic setting.   Anatomically to fly they would need strong shoulders and muscles that moved the wings independent of arm movement.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2015, 01:35:55 pm »

I like the first figure, I think you could still have sleeves rather than the wrist brace and armbands.  The second outfit looks impractical for flight but perhaps suitable for a domestic setting.   Anatomically to fly they would need strong shoulders and muscles that moved the wings independent of arm movement.

they have.  (I stole a male body base, I'm sorry, I didn't draw the 'models' other than their faces and hair...) they have like...how to say it, two pairs of chest muscles, even though it isn't very visible in first sight (I know that's weird but I need to keep these a LITTLE pretty at least.
I don't know how to make sleeves on that design Sad but the arm bands have a second value. Angli trade with the species known as Vulca. those four armed creatures live inside vulcanoes but manage to tunnel to deserts in order to trade with angli. they are smiths and make lightweight jewels that angli like to wear.

the arm things were suggested early in the thread.

and the second, really, was just a random idea. they could also wear really high pulled up pants... *shrug*
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MWBailey
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rtafStElmo
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2015, 03:29:03 pm »

Do the Angeli fly in a prone (like superman flying at speed) or in an upright position? If prone, they might benefit from a rudderlike panel on the rear of their robes or whatever, if they don't have birdlike tails (also, tails could possibly be a bit problematic, depending on how big or long they are; folding them in and lifting them, like normal birds do, might cause problems with a robe-like design, and simply letting them droop would let them get close to or actually drag on the ground, which might seriously hamper their use in flight).

If they fly in an upright position, they might not need a tail, save as a sort of rudimentary "flap" for slowing or altering descent.

Just musing; this is an interesting thought experiment you've got going here.
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2015, 04:06:56 pm »

Do the Angeli fly in a prone (like superman flying at speed) or in an upright position? If prone, they might benefit from a rudderlike panel on the rear of their robes or whatever, if they don't have birdlike tails (also, tails could possibly be a bit problematic, depending on how big or long they are; folding them in and lifting them, like normal birds do, might cause problems with a robe-like design, and simply letting them droop would let them get close to or actually drag on the ground, which might seriously hamper their use in flight).

If they fly in an upright position, they might not need a tail, save as a sort of rudimentary "flap" for slowing or altering descent.

Just musing; this is an interesting thought experiment you've got going here.

it seems I have xD

Angli fly in an upright position in most occasions. this position is only natural as they are sort of hanging from their wings. it also allows them to preform dances (which is an important aspect of their culture.)
tails would prevent them from moving over land and didn't seem like a good idea.

before the question raises:
angli are hollow boned mammals with the XY-XX chromosomes aligned like birds. XX is an anglico, XY is an anglica. (this was all to make it possible for the males to not have nipples.) they are warm blooded. Evolutionairy, angli have had little struggles. early in their existence they discovered the use of farming and while they hunt on birds and steal eggs, their main source or protein consists of insects (preferably larvae, but they eat everything) and nuts(I have a recipe for angli mushroom stew if you are interested Wink ). they have almost never known shortages, which made it possible for them to not store fat at all, which was also benificial on the ability to fly.
the strange alignment of chromosomes does cause one strange thing to happen, and it isn't sure how this comes: angli know a third gender. now this gender isn't actually a gender, but is referred to as 'genderless'. everything that does not fit their views on 'males' and 'females' is registered as 'genderless' (because they may not seem like it, but angli have extensive (written) recording of family lines and bonds, as well as the exact numbers of people within their swarms. (it's a swarm of Angli and a colony  of vulca) they write in a script similar to hieroglyps but with the aestics of runes.) This means one can be registered as 'genderless' later in their life, as turns out they might be homosexual or transgender. one can also be registered as 'genderless' on request.

(any questions? please ask!)
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2015, 04:21:05 pm »

finally coloured (though colour really is of no importance...)


9 has a corset like shirt (not an actual corset, it just ties on the back like a corset would) and more importantly, a lot of pockets that can be tied close with ribbons (as I stated before; angli love flowy ribbons.) he also has some headwear as suggested earlier.

10 is slightly egyptian based. it has this ring around the neck, on which the shirt is attached. (not unlike a halter top, I suppose?)
by lack of pockets in his clothing I got him this little belt pocket.
arm and leg decoration is optional, I suppose.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 04:30:57 pm by Caledonian » Logged
Antonus Fudge
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2015, 04:21:52 pm »

A couple of things to consider:

- what is the tone / style of the story? Steampunk / Victoriana? Then those ones seem a litte too modern for me. Can it be in keeping with the theme?
- practicality: they will have to be able to get in and out of the clothes, so choose one with wingholes.
- the wearer. What do the wearers do predominanlty? Combat? Adventure? Academe? Others? Dress them appropriately

Though a winged humanoid in a string vest would be quite good Smiley
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Caledonian
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the dragon's called Salmacis


« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2015, 04:35:53 pm »

A couple of things to consider:

- what is the tone / style of the story? Steampunk / Victoriana? Then those ones seem a litte too modern for me. Can it be in keeping with the theme?
- practicality: they will have to be able to get in and out of the clothes, so choose one with wingholes.
- the wearer. What do the wearers do predominanlty? Combat? Adventure? Academe? Others? Dress them appropriately

Though a winged humanoid in a string vest would be quite good Smiley

-I'm winning advice on a steampunk forum... yes the story is steampunk based. I try to figure something out to fit it, but it's hard...
-they are all were ment to have wingholes.
- will be varied once I've got a base...I'm trying to give a dresscode to an entire species(not actually, just one swarm, others are not very prominent). just what most of them wear and what they might consider normal casual clothing. like with humans, a t-shirt and jeans may be.

oooh yes. (more sketches to come, will try this out Smiley ) <- to be clear, that's a joke.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 09:41:21 pm by Caledonian » Logged
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