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Poll
Question:  Will  Airships return as viable air transport for Passenger & Cargo ?
YES - 13 (76.5%)
NO - 1 (5.9%)
MAYBE - 3 (17.6%)
Total Voters: 17

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Author Topic: Zeppelin Airship Dirigible Question: Are they viable for Mordern/Future Use ??  (Read 1864 times)
SeVeNeVeS
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2015, 03:28:34 pm »

Drones seem to be the choice for the military forces these days.

As an aside, Watch Good Kill with Ethan Hawke.  Wink
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2015, 03:56:53 pm »

They have another unintended use... as emergency landing places of other aircraft.

On 22 July 1940 a German pilot stalled his Ju88 and landed on top of a barrage balloon at Plymouth... he was able to slide it off and recover control. that wasn't the first time someone had done that as in 1917 a Belgian pilot did something similar with a German observation balloon.
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von Corax
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2015, 06:53:23 pm »

Anyone who has access to CBC Radio One, either on-air or via the Ætherweb, might consider listening to tomorrow's episode of Day 6, in which amateur pilot and retired metalhead Bruce Dickinson shares his hopes for the future of lighter-than-air flight; I don't recall the name of the airship company but it might be Aeroscraft. Day 6 airs Saturday on CBC Radio One at 10:00 am EDT (GMT -05:00) and can also be found online at http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6.

EDIT: Just heard a trailer for the show. It wasn't Aeroscraft, it was Airlander 10.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 06:03:43 am by von Corax » Logged

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Maets
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2015, 07:16:54 pm »

Thrilled to say that an airship of mine just won a very big prize. I have been thinking  of nothing but this for a couple of weeks. Just got the email.
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2015, 07:28:23 pm »

Thrilled to say that an airship of mine just won a very big prize. I have been thinking  of nothing but this for a couple of weeks. Just got the email.

Congratulations !!!
I trust it was a rather splendid airship.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2015, 09:08:09 pm »

Thrilled to say that an airship of mine just won a very big prize. I have been thinking  of nothing but this for a couple of weeks. Just got the email.

 A splendid show Mr Maets !
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2015, 09:10:29 pm »

Thrilled to say that an airship of mine just won a very big prize. I have been thinking  of nothing but this for a couple of weeks. Just got the email.

 Was was the big  prize  a Dirigible hangar for the back yard !

{ sorry couldn't resist the urge}
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Maets
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2015, 09:15:26 pm »

Thanks and no, but I could probably build a nice she'd with the prize money.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2015, 09:24:16 pm »

Thanks and no, but I could probably build a nice she'd with the prize money.

 Well congratulations  for a job well done.  Lets hope the prize can help you along into your next art design  project for an even bigger prize
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2015, 12:00:03 am »

This is actually round one. Five pieces from five artists were selected. At this point I have no idea as to what the other four look like. A grand prize will be awarded this summer in Colorado. Keep you fingers crossed.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2015, 05:50:33 am »

This is actually round one. Five pieces from five artists were selected. At this point I have no idea as to what the other four look like. A grand prize will be awarded this summer in Colorado. Keep you fingers crossed.

 we will keep everything crossed for you MR Maets . Lets us hope and pray they do not dither in making their descision
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Miranda.T
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« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2015, 08:52:15 pm »

Anyone who has access to CBC Radio One, either on-air or via the Ætherweb, might consider listening to tomorrow's episode of Day 6, in which amateur pilot and retired metalhead Bruce Dickinson shares his hopes for the future of lighter-than-air flight; I don't recall the name of the airship company but it might be Aeroscraft. Day 6 airs Saturday on CBC Radio One at 10:00 am EDT (GMT -05:00) and can also be found online at http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6.

EDIT: Just heard a trailer for the show. It wasn't Aeroscraft, it was Airlander 10.


There seems to be quite a few people who think the Airlander has a future... https://twitter.com/AirVehicles?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rocketeers.co.uk%2F&tw_i=588346896940335104&tw_p=tweetembed

Yours,
Miranda.

P.S. I don't think Bruce Dickinson is retired from Iron Maiden just yet, although I understand there is a current hiatus due to health concerns.
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von Corax
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« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2015, 09:31:50 pm »

In case anyone's interested, here's the link to the archived episode segment: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/iron-maiden-s-frontman-on-the-future-of-zeppelin-s-1.3028570?autoplay=true.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2015, 11:21:47 pm »



 The more I read  and have information shared with me, the more interesting and intriguing  this subject gets.   Have air ships and their continued development been kept on the down low - or have they just not been "ön trend" ?
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« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2015, 11:40:06 pm »


Historically on of the big factors was the huge technical leap that fixed wing aircraft took during WWII, because of the amount of effort that was put into developing them. A lot of this was directly applicable to civilian aircraft after the war so in any ways the technology was rather ahead of it's time for a while.

This meant that for much of the second half of the 20th century air transport was pretty well catered for by a mature technology and it's very difficult for something which was pretty much unproven to catch up with that.

There was also the bad PR from the Hindenberg disaster. In engineering terms it wasn't that significant an event and certainly proves nothing about the relative safety of airships but in terms of image it was pretty bad, being one of the first major disasters to be documented on film. This also relates to the fact that public opinion demands a very high standard of safety from passenger aircraft because they are perceived as being inherently dangerous so the cost of developing a new aircraft type for general passenger use is enormous. Not just the cost of making it work but the amount of documentation and certification required to get it licensed and insured. This tends to mean that the aviation industry is inherently conservative and will usually prefer to develp something which is known to work.
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« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2015, 11:43:22 pm »



 The more I read  and have information shared with me, the more interesting and intriguing  this subject gets.   Have air ships and their continued development been kept on the down low - or have they just not been "ön trend" ?

On trend is a good guess.  Let me illustrate why:

Most people - and in fact - most engineering students have never heard that in the late 1970s NASA developed a supersonic propeller called "Propfan." The idea was to break the barrier for propeller aircraft (which are more fuel efficient than turbine powered aircraft), flying faster than 400 mph, because the airflow around the blades of the propeller becomes supersonic before the aircraft approaches the speed of sound, thus bringing the propeller thrust to zero.  The resulting Propfan design was then incorporated into two demostrator designs, a turboprop engine by Allison Turboprop, and a turbofan-Propfan hybrid called "Unducted Fan or UDF by General Electric.  Both engines flew with fuel savings better than 26% and it allowed a modified Boeing 727 to fly faster than Mach 0.7 in the early 90's

The only aircraft ever incorporating a "full stength" turboprop design in practice was a Russian Antonov AN 70? (I forget), because worldwide noise regulations came into effect at the time, and fuel was still to cheap.

So how many people knew of this among the public?  None of it was classified information and you could read articles about if in Aviation Week and Space Technology Magazine!!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 05:52:40 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2015, 01:06:37 am »



 If there is no immediate pressing need for new technology and or  if a major media or corporate sponsor  {such as a large oil corporation}  wishes to suppress it for their own interests, there will be less media coverage and it wont be included in general study and training curriculum . It drops out of the industry knowledge set  and does not   reach the public domain or interest.

 [ new zealand is a strange place]  An article came up on a news site  that had reference to shipping  port & rail development where by  comments  became a "debate" [ vicious verbal war of abuse  with deletions] about , rail efficiency & viability    versus airport runways and or airplane efficiency.

 I dropped in a comment  regarding the modern development of dirigibles and their  potential as a viable form of  flight , surveillance, freight etc [ as one does in these situations].  To cut to the chase ,  the comments  in response  [ or reaction]  showed clearly  that in a country built on aviation  flight and  experimental developments, the only knowledge of  airships was the Hindenburg crash.

"dear readers" were quite taken aback with  the continued development  and potential use of said craft and couldn't get their head around it.  Antarctic exploration  and drone surveillance  did resonate with some of them on some level.

 
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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2015, 11:44:32 am »

If there is no immediate pressing need for new technology and or  if a major media or corporate sponsor  {such as a large oil corporation}  wishes to suppress it for their own interests, there will be less media coverage and it wont be included in general study and training curriculum . It drops out of the industry knowledge set  and does not   reach the public domain or interest.

[ new zealand is a strange place]  An article came up on a news site  that had reference to shipping  port & rail development where by  comments  became a "debate" [ vicious verbal war of abuse  with deletions] about , rail efficiency & viability    versus airport runways and or airplane efficiency.

 I dropped in a comment  regarding the modern development of dirigibles and their  potential as a viable form of  flight , surveillance, freight etc [ as one does in these situations].  To cut to the chase ,  the comments  in response  [ or reaction]  showed clearly  that in a country built on aviation  flight and  experimental developments, the only knowledge of  airships was the Hindenburg crash.

"dear readers" were quite taken aback with  the continued development  and potential use of said craft and couldn't get their head around it.  Antarctic exploration  and drone surveillance  did resonate with some of them on some level.

But I'm not sure that is the explanation.  At least not for flying machines.  There was plenty of money behind the research efforts by NASA, General Electric with their Unducted Fan (UDF) and Allison Turboprop.  And that is not taking into consideration that Boeing was in it too proposing to revive the venerable Boeing 727 with two GE UDFs on the rear, and they proposed to build it in Japan under the name "7J7."

I'm not sure exactly why oil companies would be against the technology.  It's not like airlines and airships would take the lion share of oil consumption.  The vast majority of oil consumption is for the average worldwide motorists, I'm afraid.  Now coming up with hydrogen fuel cell technology and electric cars, definitely has had much more of an opposition from the oil interests.
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« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 09:54:07 pm »

The recent tragedy of the earthquakes in Nepal should spotlight the need for airships as disaster relief vehicles, with roads and rail-lines impassable that just leaves the open skies as accessible.

Helicopters are limited by payload and fuel-range, conventional aircraft require runways which might be damaged or covered in debris so the ability to hover without restriction would be ideal.
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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2015, 04:06:37 am »

The recent tragedy of the earthquakes in Nepal should spotlight the need for airships as disaster relief vehicles, with roads and rail-lines impassable that just leaves the open skies as accessible.

Helicopters are limited by payload and fuel-range, conventional aircraft require runways which might be damaged or covered in debris so the ability to hover without restriction would be ideal.

 This is where the technology being developed is  currently focusing, more so than passenger  transport.  It could be   superior to other forms of  cargo drops  .
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« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2015, 01:53:24 pm »

Military/police
Using the basic plans for blimps the US used in the 40's through the 60's, blimps were used for anti-submarine protection of convoys and as radar stations, which would still work. 
Airships as mother ships for drones would be excellent anti-piracy platforms, and usable in urban areas to "patrol" in certian areas.  Unarmed drones with cameras do take a bite out of crime.  Armed drones can take the profit out of piracy and drug trafficking.  Airships can stay aloft a loooooooooooo(draw breath)ooooooooooong time.  See the opening credits for the show "Gotham" for cool images. 

Cargo
I'm still wondering why airships don't carry cargo in summer to the same destinations ice road truckers visit in winter.  No road? No problem! to an airship.

Leisure
A day of sightseeing in unspoiled areas in comfort.  Tourism by Airship, when a nice cup of tea or a fine glass of wine and a comfortable chair are in order.  Speed isn't always the object. 

Search and rescue
The searching abilities come from military applications.  The abilities to get to specific places without prop wash, to be able to remove debris or get rescuers into tight spots would make airships very useful.

The main problem with the revival of airships is the lack of imagination of venture capitalists.  The same banks that wouldn't fund aircraft now won't fund anything else.
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« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2015, 04:43:56 pm »


 I hadn't considered the luxury tourism angle. While long distance travel may be cumbersome, short distance excursions  would be enhanced  by such air craft.  Submarines are used for this purpose by tourism ventures, so there is o reason to think that air ships / boats could not be viable  for  leisure tourism.

It may  take an eccentric billionaire with a side interest looking for a challenge to tackle this shameful lack of dirigible  use.

 Let us all hope it doesn't take another war for  craft viable for recreation / small group passenger  capabilities to be developed


 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 04:46:09 pm by Hurricane Annie » Logged
von Corax
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« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2015, 05:10:08 pm »

Cargo
I'm still wondering why airships don't carry cargo in summer to the same destinations ice road truckers visit in winter.  No road? No problem! to an airship.

That's actually one of the ideas Bruce Dickinson mentions in the CBC Radio interview. He states that a number of Canadian prospective operators have approached Airlander.

It may  take an eccentric billionaire with a side interest looking for a challenge to tackle this shameful lack of dirigible  use.

Someone like, say, Bruce Dickinson? Wink
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« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2015, 10:21:31 pm »

Do we really want an airship with a giant picture of Eddie on the side of it?
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« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2015, 10:27:41 pm »

Do we really want an airship with a giant picture of Eddie on the side of it?

In a word.........



YES!!!!
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