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Poll
Question: In which would you rather live ?
UTOPIA - 4 (66.7%)
DYSTOPIA - 2 (33.3%)
Total Voters: 6

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Author Topic: Where would you prefer to inhabit : Dystopia or Utopia ?  (Read 1536 times)
Hurricane Annie
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« on: January 31, 2015, 01:55:26 am »


Be honest with your answers. We all know Brassgoggles can be a very dark place at times...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia





One could quickly turn into the other.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 02:12:39 am »

 I would feel more at home in a Dystopia. There is a certain appeal to a black market under ground , renegade lifestyle. There may even be more freedoms when there is nothing left to lose.

A Utopia would take too many rules and regulations to control in a state of equilibrium.



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Atterton
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 02:36:30 am »

It's better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven.
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2015, 02:54:27 am »

My Utopia is many people's Dystopia.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 03:26:14 am »

It's better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven.

 That is the way I look at it.  The constant monitoring  and other social controls in a "safe" world would be heavily restricting and there would be  the constant risk of running foul of the system. It could  make it a  particularly boring and uninspiring world.

The possibilities and potential in the rebellious world of a darker dystopia would be more challenging and exercise the imagination. 
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chicar
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 03:49:43 am »

I torn between a utopia who look like a distopia and a distopia who look like a utopia.

a- A absolutely perfect world can only be achieved by the surpression of individuality. I'm not talking of democracy here, but of the self, as moving from a herd mentality to a hive mentality. Is horrifying seem of the exterior, but in the interior it would be like sleeping in a perpetual state of innocence.

b- the second option would be a world where technology made the concept of service and retribution , and in extensio organised society, obsolete. Voila, arnachic utopia.


Absolute order or absolute freedom, no more of this flawed equilibrium our society force us to live in, here my choice of prefered world.
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The word pagan came from paganus , who mean peasant . Its was a way to significate than christianism was the religion of the elite and paganism the one of the savage worker class.

''Trickster shows us how we trick OURSELVES. Her rampant curiosity backfires, but, then, something NEW is discovered (though usually not what She expected)! This is where creativity comes from—experiment, do something different, maybe even something forbidden, and voila! A breakthrough occurs! Ha! Ha! We are released! The world is created anew! Do something backwards, break your own traditions, the barrier breaks; destroy the world as you know it, let the new in.''
Extract of the Dreamflesh article ''Path of The Sacred Clown''
jonb
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 04:20:28 am »

Quote
O wonder!
How many godly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in't.

I Jon B. Savage although conditioned to be an epsilon, reject the Soma of this current best of all possible worlds.
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Prof Marvel
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learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 06:25:48 am »

I left Dystopia as I was unwilling to shoot-and-bury my way on a distressingly regular basis, nor did I care for the karmic burden.
I have never found a so-called Utopia in which I was willing to play/spoof my way.

Thus I have chosen the Kobyashimaru solution, and we have carved out a little niche of our own in an indeterminate and difficult to find region where the locals believe in "live-and-let-live-by-the-way-this-IS-loaded-close-the-gate-on-your-way-out" and officialdom is paid for but does not care to be involved if not required.

We have also become fast friends with and made ourselves nearly indespensible to the locals and local-officialdom, which always helps :-)

After re-reading the responses... I am coming to believe that many of us have similar thoughts don't we?

yhs
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von Corax
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 06:38:29 am »

It's better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven.

 That is the way I look at it.  The constant monitoring  and other social controls in a "safe" world would be heavily restricting and there would be  the constant risk of running foul of the system. It could  make it a  particularly boring and uninspiring world.

The possibilities and potential in the rebellious world of a darker dystopia would be more challenging and exercise the imagination. 


Your heavily-regulated, highly-monitored, oppressively-protective "Utopia" sounds very like my definition of Dystopia. Of course, since the word "Utopia" actually means "no place," the risk of living there is negligible – this point was actually foremost in Thomas More's mind when he titled the book from which we derive the term.

On the other hand, my Eutopia ("good place") would have just enough dark, dirty corners to keep life interesting without being either oppressively "perfect" or trouser-soilingly savage.
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pakled
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 06:41:20 am »

To paraphrase Mark Twain - "Utopia for the climate, and Dystopia for the company"
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 06:43:10 am »

To paraphrase Mark Twain - "Utopia for the climate, and Dystopia for the company"


But if Utopia is "no place," then there would be no climate, which would be depressingly tedious – that sounds distressingly like Southern California… Roll Eyes
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 09:40:52 am »

To paraphrase Mark Twain - "Utopia for the climate, and Dystopia for the company"


But if Utopia is "no place," then there would be no climate, which would be depressingly tedious – that sounds distressingly like Southern California… Roll Eyes

 It doesn't rain there
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 10:08:46 am »

Neither of them really can exist for long.  Both systems are fundamentally unstable.
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Athanor
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Keep them off-balance and brazen it out!


« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 10:24:14 am »

From Wikipedia:
Quote
Famous depictions of dystopian societies include R.U.R. (which introduced the concept of robots and the word "robot" for the first time); Nineteen Eighty-Four, which takes place in a totalitarian invasive super state; Brave New World, where the society’s energy is forcibly directed into drug-addled consumerism and hedonism in place of traditional morality; Fahrenheit 451, where the state burns books to create apathy and disinterest in the general public; A Clockwork Orange, where the state uses psychological torture to reform violent youths; Blade Runner in which engineered "replicants" infiltrate society and must be hunted down before they injure humans; The Matrix, in which the human species is trapped in a virtual reality world created by intelligent machines, The Hunger Games, in which the government controls its people by maintaining a constant state of fear through forcing randomly selected children to participate in an annual fight to the death; Logan's Run, in which both population and the consumption of resources are maintained in equilibrium by requiring the death of everyone reaching a particular age; Soylent Green, where society suffers from pollution, overpopulation, depleted resources, poverty, dying oceans, a hot climate, and much of the population survives on processed food rations, including "soylent green".

Real-world dystopias would certainly include Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia, the Taliban's Afghanistan ..... none of them places where I'd choose to live.

But then, of course, in Thomas More's original Utopia, you'd have to get official permission if you wanted to travel to the next city.... but as every building in every city is identical, there wouldn't be much incentive to travel anyway. Von Corax's Eutopia sounds to me like a good compromise. Or what about Steamtopia.....?

Athanor.
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 12:37:01 am »

Actually, I credit the term "eutopia" to Dr. Jim Dator, TVOntario's commentator on Doctor Who back when they still did that sort of thing.

He may well credit someone else for it.
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Alexis Voltaire
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Shàlle We Dànce?


« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2015, 06:10:28 am »

I wouldn't want to live in either honestly, but I'd prefer a dystopia out of a personal belief that all things (people, societies, etc) have a dark and a light side, and I prefer to have to dark out in the open where it can be seen, and where people know how to cope with it.

I'm just too much of a cynic to believe a utopia doesn't have some necessary nastiness hidden underneath. Even if this wasn't the case, in my mind a utopia lacks variety, individuality, and all the stuff that makes life interesting.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2015, 12:54:54 pm »

I wouldn't want to live in either honestly, but I'd prefer a dystopia out of a personal belief that all things (people, societies, etc) have a dark and a light side, and I prefer to have to dark out in the open where it can be seen, and where people know how to cope with it.

I'm just too much of a cynic to believe a utopia doesn't have some necessary nastiness hidden underneath. Even if this wasn't the case, in my mind a utopia lacks variety, individuality, and all the stuff that makes life interesting.

 Yes nothing is completely black or white
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chicar
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Chicar556
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2015, 03:14:01 pm »

I know how you feel bro !

www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQw0Y_rh6s



As long than human nature as his word on it, perfection won't be of this earth. Everybody strive for utopia, but they shall never be sastified, here the motor of life.
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2015, 06:06:02 pm »

The two are not mutually exclusive, often the same place and time is both depending on who you are etc.

I could list many holiday destinations that also have their 'dark side', and many 'trouble spots' where people help each other and have a strong sense of family and community. In most places there are extremes of both (often not too far from each other).

There is even some evidence that a 'utopia' would have a high suicide rate (think how many people who seem to 'have a perfect life' kill themselves), as people literally get bored to death and have no challenges in life so are robbed of the satisfaction of achieving a goal. This could account for the popularity of 'danger sports', fast cars etc. Anyone born and brought up in a utopia would probably not realize they lived in one if they never went to something different so would they be happy and appreciate it?

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Rockula
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2015, 07:21:40 pm »

Both are extremes.
I wouldn't want to live in either.
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Athanor
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Keep them off-balance and brazen it out!


« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2015, 02:50:17 am »


I'm just too much of a cynic to believe a utopia doesn't have some necessary nastiness hidden underneath. Even if this wasn't the case, in my mind a utopia lacks variety, individuality, and all the stuff that makes life interesting.


There's a short story by Ursula LeGuin, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas", which describes the day of a festival in the idyllic Utopian city of Omelas; but the seeming Utopia depends for its existence on the horrendous suffering of a single child kept imprisoned in a windowless closet somewhere beneath the city. Everyone beyond adolescence knows the terrible secret, but almost everyone prefers to simply enjoy life and not think about the suffering child. But there are a few - the "ones who walk away" - that decide that the suffering of even one sentient being is too big a price to pay for the happiness of the majority.

What would you do? Read the story, and think deeply about it.

http://www.enotes.com/topics/ones-who-walk-away-omelas

Athanor.
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Prof Marvel
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learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2015, 05:34:41 am »

But there are a few - the "ones who walk away" - that decide that the suffering of even one sentient being is too big a price to pay for the happiness of the majority.
Athanor.

Bingo.

Above all else, do no harm .

yhs
prof marvel
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2015, 05:48:08 am »

But there are a few - the "ones who walk away" - that decide that the suffering of even one sentient being is too big a price to pay for the happiness of the majority.
Athanor.

Bingo.

Above all else, do no harm .

yhs
prof marvel

An ye harm none, do what ye will.

Seems to crop up in a lot of systems of spirituality.
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Alexis Voltaire
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Shàlle We Dànce?


« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2015, 07:32:54 am »

There is even some evidence that a 'utopia' would have a high suicide rate (think how many people who seem to 'have a perfect life' kill themselves), as people literally get bored to death and have no challenges in life so are robbed of the satisfaction of achieving a goal. This could account for the popularity of 'danger sports', fast cars etc. Anyone born and brought up in a utopia would probably not realize they lived in one if they never went to something different so would they be happy and appreciate it?

This is another good point. I think either people would be bored to the point of suicide, or in extreme cases they'd start inventing ways to make life more dangerous for themselves and/or each other.

I've often thought that the ship full of humans in the movie WALL-E could very easily become a horrible dystopia in this manner. The boredom could lead to some kind of psychotic 'lord of the flies' scenario where winning games and other leisure activities became a matter of life and death, imposed by various cult-like 'sports groups' that would do horrible things to the loser. In the absence of any struggle to stay alive, they'd invent one. Or at the very least, your scoring ability would become the basis for a very rigid social pecking order. It's hard to imagine what would differentiate the top of the social pyramid from the bottom in a place like that, where everyone basically lives/eats/drives the same way. Perhaps you'd end up in a scenario where value became arbitrarily attached to random things, like you see in online games where random junk becomes the most valuable item around. (IIRC, the most valuable thing in Runescape has become a useless paper party hat that's worth about $1000 in real-world currency.)

Yep, I have a twisted mind.
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2015, 04:04:19 pm »

The converse to my last comment is that in a Dystopia there is the opportunity to derive pleasure from any small act of resistance / defiance which improves your lot.

There are countless examples of this from the the names children give teachers out of earshot to the small 'victories' achieved by prisoners. It doesn't have to be full blown open rebellion (which is likely to bring a harsh response) but can be as simple as complying with orders in a way that gives you control of the situation. A prisoner who returns to their cell before they are told to and shuts the door isn't being locked up by the guard but is choosing when their door is shut. So who is then in control?

And as the old saying goes 'necessity is the mother of invention' which would make a dystopia more attractive to many Steampunks given our creativity. If prisoners of war can secretly build a glider what would steampunks create in a dystopia?
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