The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
December 18, 2017, 09:30:38 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Brassgoggles.co.uk - The Lighter Side Of Steampunk, follow @brasstech for forum technical problems & updates.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Welding advice  (Read 2440 times)
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 01:27:12 am »


It sounds like you are approaching this in the right way, in terms of the questions you are asking.

A lot of the stuff that I do is welded steel fabrication and as you identify this has the characteristic that you very much can make and adjust things as you go along but, as you say soldering tends to be something which tends to demand a much more premeditated approach. Having said that as you gain experience this should become a more intuitive and you will start to think in those terms rather than having to work everything out.

Having said that all processes have their own characteristics  and some will suit specific individuals more than others. If welding is like oil painting then soldering is more like watercolours.

Your experience in paper engineering should stand you in good stead though as, similarly, soldering and brazing are all about getting a precise fit.

In many ways I'm tempted to say that TIG welding might be the ideal process for what you describe as what you want to achieve. However it is a considerable investment in kit and learning curve so it might be worthwhile for you to see if you can find somewhere that you can give it a go, perhaps a local college.
Logged







A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress.
Lord Byron
Maets
Immortal
**
United States United States

Gravatar

Airship Builder


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 01:47:45 am »

Perhaps sharing a picture or drawing of what you are up to.  Much easier to discuss the best approach if we know exactly what you are attempting.
Logged

jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 02:25:55 pm »

I just made this out of one old soup can to work out size and fit, it has no tangs on it for proper soldering so is just tacked together to see how it could work.



Oh and a bit of garden wire and a ball chain.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 02:29:28 pm by jonb » Logged
Wormster
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2014, 06:48:27 pm »

Looks good already!
Logged

We are the BEC,
And this we must confess,
Whatever is worth doing,
We'll do it to excess!
jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2014, 12:02:51 am »

That's nice of you to say, but its only up to give an idea of the size of the joints I will want to solder. When I get my scissors into the next tin I am going to have to make the head fractionally smaller.
At the moment I've used up all the tins in the house, so I'm trying to think what to cook for the family with plenty of tinned ingredients.
Logged
Cousin Itt
Officer
***
United States United States


Kontraptional Ungineer


« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2014, 12:28:13 am »

The oxygen/fuel (acetylene/propane) torch can also be used for welding as well as soldering and brazing.
There is also a product called Muggy-Weld that can be used for aluminum, zamak, and other non ferous metals with the torch.
Logged
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2014, 07:05:51 pm »


Indeed, an oxy/gas kit would probably give you the greatest versatility and should cope well with most tasks, especially if you are working primarily with steel. It will also give you the capability for brass brazing on larger assemblies which  will give you some of the versatility of welding as well as hard and soft soldering operations. It can also be a useful tool for general heating.

With oxy/fuel torches you get a fine, high temperature flame, which is well suited to hard soldering and brazing, which I think would work well for the sort of work you are talking about.

In this area you can choose between the more professional rigs which use bigger size rental bottles or smaller sets with disposable bottles. Rental bottles tend to work out cheaper in the long run. Disposables can be more convenient to source but if you use any more than a small amount of work they can start to get very expensive.

The other decision is propane or acetylene. The main advantage of acetylene is that it gives a hotter flame, which also gives enough shielding to use it for welding. However it is expensive to source and requires great care in handling and storage. Propane is quite hot enough for brazing and soldering and is generally cheap and easy to find. You can also get simple venturi torches quite cheaply which can be a useful additional tool for soft soldering or really small pieces.

These links should give you an idea of what is available :

http://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding/Gas-Welding-Kits.html

https://www.weldequip.com/gas-welding.htm
Logged
jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2014, 11:23:54 pm »

I'm taking your advice, I'm saving up my pocket money, and should be buying the start of my kit in Jan/Feb, how much I spend depends on how long I can hold out, and resist the joy of getting started.
I really appreciate the guidance every body has given me and much thanks to Narsil for all the links.
So kind.
Logged
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2014, 11:54:25 pm »

an additional piece of advice I would give is that you look into what is the most suitable source of gas for you

you can either

a) rent bottles from BOC. If you use a lot this may be the most economical option, especially if you are close enough to an agent to collect (delivery is expensive) you pay a monthly rental on the bottle and a fixed fee it get it refilled (in practice you swap an empty one for a full one). this tends to be the cheapest option if you use gas at a constant rate but you are paying for the bottle whether you use it or not. ~This option tends to get cheaper the more you use.

b) get rent-free returnable bottles, these are similar size to rental bottles and can be ordered online, you usually pay a deposit on the first bottle and a smaller fee for exchanges.

c) disposable bottles : you just buy these as you use them and you can get them from ftade and diy stores. a cheap way to start but expensive per litre of gas and once you break the factory seal they tend to leak a bit so you need to use them quickly. also if you buy kit for disposable bottles you may need to buy new regulators and fittings to upgrade to industrial bottles.

d) propane : happily propane is easy and cheap  to obtain in a wide variety of sizes from industrial and agricultural suppliers, you can just buy a full bottle with a standard industrial fitting which will work with both oxy/fuel and venturi burners.




c) disposable cylinders :
Logged
jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2014, 01:00:12 am »



Yes,  I'm thinking of this sort of set up, so disposable, I don't see myself using large amounts of gas at least at the start, and apart from anything else as I make individual things, I find the design and finishing often takes longer than the fabrication, and nowadays I am a bit slow.
I have three definite projects in mind and I am working on simple things to start with to get the skills for those projects, but with no plans beyond that I don't think I want to commit myself to a monster.
Logged
J. Wilhelm
╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
Board Moderator
Immortal
**
United States United States


Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2014, 04:48:15 am »

Most of my work is soldered.  I use 1mm thick copper-clad (copper bonded) steel plates and a small propane torch is all I ever needed for most jobs, so I'm thinking and Oxy setup is overkill. Depends on the thickness of the metal, but tin/steel food cans are already much thinner than the metal I use!!  Oxy flame temperature is unnecessarilly high to wel tin cans.... Heat transfer and all that jazz - the heat is concentrated to quickly IMHO.

The oxy setup is already too complicated and expensive for me, unless I also wanted to learn how to weld, as I simply use propane gas and stick to soft solder.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 06:08:24 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2014, 09:21:20 am »

Yes that could be good advice, I've got to try things out anyway, so I'll knock some things together with an iron, and an old plumbers torch and find out where my difficulties are, and if/when I need more I can scale up.
Logged
jonb
Snr. Officer
****
England England



« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2014, 05:46:15 pm »

Hummmm, I am having some difficulties, I don't think the torch or any torch would work for me the thin steel is distributing the heat too fast to work on a very small area and my material being used does not lend itself readily to exact fits. The solder will seal joints but I am loosing flexibility with my style. I like a loose finish so that it is clear what I have constructed my work from and as such the tabs bent to hold the bits together are still doing the work of holding the pieces together the solder is just acting as a superficial finish.

What I am thinking is that what I want to do is make a spot weld with an electronic welder, then I can finish with solder if needed.

Can you tell me if this is possible,
and if it is what sort of welder I should look for?

Logged
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2014, 10:31:20 pm »


There is an important difference between 'spot welds' and 'tack welds' but I understand what you mean. The short answer is both yes and no. You can certainly tack stuff together to get an approximate fit, the problem, though, is that if you end up with gaps any sort of soldering process will struggle to fill them adequately.

I suspect that the process you really need is TIG welding. Oxy/Gas welding will go part of the way as  this allows you  to use brass of bronze filler which can be built up to fill gaps a lot more that other soldering processes but is still limited.
Logged
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 08:21:30 pm »

Something else I would add is that a bunsen burner, as found in a school chemistry lab can be very useful for soldering this sort of work, especially as it leaves you with both hands free.

You can pick them up from ebay reasonably cheaply and can run them of an LPG cylinder, you jsut need a regulator and a length of hose. The whole lot (excluding gas) should come it ant about £20.

AS a bonus this also gives your bench that 'mad scientist' look.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.125 seconds with 17 queries.