Waitangi Day Post RE: Steampunk our National Flag Debate

[Hurricane Annie]

In honour of the New Zealand Waitangi Day I am bringing this hotly debated  debacle  before the bush court of  the Brassgoggles Message Board  for members to post their informed decisions below

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 It is election year in NZ  and the games have begun. As a diversion and distraction from the real issues the Prime Minister has declared there will be a referendum regarding a change of national flag. There have over the years,  been a plethora of flag designs put forward by keen patriots . 

The  greatest  arguments for another flag change have been :

 It looks to much like Australia's
Canada got themselves a new one
The Union Jack in the corner is too British

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 Since  the 1830s we have had  3 or more flag changes. The steampunk element  comes into play as the 19th century flags were more attractive, distinct and contained  appropriate symbolism  pertaining to our heritage  and panorama around us.   NZ was "invented" in the Victorian era.

 I quite like the Antipodean Revival  and Steampunk appeal of the original flags

 United Tribes flag [ the interesting story behind its inception (involves Australia ) ]
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/flags-of-new-zealand/united-tribes-flag
 
The 4 stars represent the Southern Cross constellation that is used in the Antipodes to navigate  direction on land and sea


Following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi on 6 February 1840, the Union Jack replaced the Flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand as the official flag of New Zealand. The new Lieutenant-Governor, William Hobson, forcibly removed the United Tribes flag from the Bay of Islands, and had the New Zealand Company's version of the flag hauled down at Port Nicholson.

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/flags-of-new-zealand/union-jack



Flag with Union Jack in corner and the letters 'NZ'. 'NZ' was used to represent New Zealand on the  Blue Ensign from 1867 to 1869.




The official New Zealand flag was first used in 1869. It is based on the British blue ensign with the Union Flag (also known as the Union Jack) in the upper left corner, and four red stars with white borders to the right. These stars represent the constellation of Crux, the Southern Cross, as it seen from New Zealand. Initially used only on government ships, it wasn't until 1902 that it was made the official flag of New Zealand.



 This is the flag the PM  wants. It is the emblem of our national  All Blacks rugby team.  It has a black background and a ( white) silver fern. War veterans are concerned as this emblem is often mistaken for the white feather of cowardice.



 A sample of NZ flags and  design options put forward over the years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_flags

[Atterton]

You should put the weta on your flag.

[Hurricane Annie]

You should put the weta on your flag.

 

 It would be more appropriate than a rugby logo. 

[Steampunk Away]

The native Māori have very interesting flags. One of them may be appropriate, such as the red, black and white one. I realize the one you posted is one of many of the tribal flags.

[Hurricane Annie]

The native Māori have very interesting flags. One of them may be appropriate, such as the red, black and white one. I realize the one you posted is one of many of the tribal flags.

 again  the flag you mention Tino rangatiratanga  or Official national Maori flag, while extremely controversial , is far more attractive in red,  white and black than the All Black flag.

 My preference is the United tribes Flag with the white background.  To my dismay   I had no knowledge of this flag until recently when it was flashed in the background of a news clip.  Our local history   education was seriously remiss.

[pakled05]

don't feel bad, the Confederates went through 5 flags in 4 years, or was it 4 flags in 5?... Since they shot LOTR in NZ, maybe they could use the Rohan or Gondor flags. I dunno...that's pretty much your country's decision. Hope it all works out.

[Hurricane Annie]

There would be a few enthusiasts who would  be in raptures of ecstasy over your suggestion of LOTR flags.

 I daren't suggest it lest  the current government sell rights to  the flag away  to corporates too, along with everything else.

[von Corax]

We had our own Great Flag Debate before the Maple Leaf was officially adopted. It had expanded into a debate over the Canadian "National Identity" and how best to represent it before a Parliamentary Committee was struck to sort through the over 3,000 proposed designs.

I wish you the best of luck with that.

[Captain Lyerly]

Hmmm.... yes, I think a representation of a white hand on a black field would be very tasteful and appropriate.




Chas.

[akumabito]

Gott say I like the design of the Maori flag.. If you want the flsg to represent NZ's history, you'd probably want to incorporate it, as well as the Union Jack. Like it or not, it's part of your collective history.

[Hurricane Annie]

We had our own Great Flag Debate before the Maple Leaf was officially adopted. It had expanded into a debate over the Canadian "National Identity" and how best to represent it before a Parliamentary Committee was struck to sort through the over 3,000 proposed designs.

I wish you the best of luck with that.

 Thank you for your good wishes for the intended bun fight.


 As any NZ schoolchild can tell you  "the Canadian flag,  is  that the one with the big  red marijuana leaf on it " 

 I did read a rumour that the Canadians changed their flag  as  despite their neutral stand ,  they kept being shot  at during war time due to constantly being mistaken for the British.

[Hurricane Annie]

Hmmm.... yes, I think a representation of a white hand on a black field would be very tasteful and appropriate.




Chas.

 If we are going black n white I want this one !!

[Steampunk Away]

If we are doing Pirates, NZ should walk under the BLACK FLAG!

[Sludge Van Diesel]

If the silver fern is just a symbol for the rugby team, why did I have to illuminate one that ran down most of the side of the building at New Zealand House for a visit of your PM a few years back?

I was under the impression that the silver fern was a national symbol such as the English rose, the Scottish thistle, Welsh leek or daffodil, Irish shamrock etc......

I quite like this one as a replacement to the existing one

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Kyle_Lockwood%27s_New_Zealand_Flag.svg/800px-Kyle_Lockwood%27s_New_Zealand_Flag.svg.png

[Sebastian Dante]

I agree with Master Van Diesel, that is a very nice combination of some of the prominent designs

[Hurricane Annie]

If the silver fern is just a symbol for the rugby team, why did I have to illuminate one that ran down most of the side of the building at New Zealand House for a visit of your PM a few years back?

I was under the impression that the silver fern was a national symbol such as the English rose, the Scottish thistle, Welsh leek or daffodil, Irish shamrock etc......

I quite like this one as a replacement to the existing one

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Kyle_Lockwood%27s_New_Zealand_Flag.svg/800px-Kyle_Lockwood%27s_New_Zealand_Flag.svg.png

A vocal minority can be quite sports obsessed in NZ, especially rugby and cricket.  It receives and excess of funding. The fern [ or cowardice feather ] logo has been picked up by  a few other sports teams and gets over used.  The PM or his people may have requested the fern light show for PR purposes.


 The emblem on our national airline [ Air New Zealand] is  a koru . This is widely used on NZ themed products and as a logo, particularly  tourism related items.

 A koru is an unfurled  ponga/ tree fern frond
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koru



 Our favourite time honoured  national emblem has always been  the Kiwi .  It is instantly international recognised.We call ourselves Kiwi and Kiwiland.  NZ nostalgia is referred to as Kiwiana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi

 


 Military roundels






 I was born and spent my early years in the shade of this.  [ since demolished but the giant kiwi lives on]