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Author Topic: Any weapons experts out there? Mystery flintlock!  (Read 2080 times)
Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2014, 03:27:03 am »

You would think so.  But for some reason, the North African region held on to the various forms of flint lock for much longer than elsewhere - and the percussion cap was only invented around 1820.  If you were out in the back of beyond, you could usually find a scrap of flint somehow - but a steady supply of percussion caps was problematic, at best. 

So, it might be earlier; but without actually inspecting the piece personally, I couldn't put it any older than "about" mid-nineteenth.



Chas.
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Captain Sir Charles A. Lyerly, O.B.T.
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 04:03:09 am »

That is true. I'm going with a personal, non-tourist piece.
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 08:53:14 am »

Hello
Well...I too wouldn’t say I am a weapons expert but who is?? There are just too many to be a real expert on any.
Anyway. Certainly a snaphaunch mechanism and highly likely North African, so anywhere from Egypt to Morocco. For some reason they stuck with the earlier form of the flintlock mechanism, even after the rest of Europe advance to the simpler but more effective designs. I’d certainly say this is a tourist piece but nothing to say parts of it aren’t original from other guns. These people will never throw anything away which is useful and the climate is usually very good for preservation, so likely that parts are recycled from original 19thC pieces. I say I’m not an expert but I do have 4 of these, all long barrel versions, along with miscellaneous Indian matchlocks & flintlocks....but Indian sabres/tulwars are more my thing.
Cheers
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Cpt Davis
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Heckler
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 11:45:56 am »

I say I’m not an expert but I do have 4 of these, all long barrel versions, along with miscellaneous Indian matchlocks & flintlocks....but Indian sabres/tulwars are more my thing.
Cheers

Silly question perhaps, but noticing you're in the UK, do you have to have a blackpowder licence or a shotgun licence (and the accompanying gun safes etc) to collect flintlocks or matchlocks?
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Matthias Gladstone
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2014, 01:06:23 pm »

Quote
Silly question perhaps, but noticing you're in the UK, do you have to have a blackpowder licence or a shotgun licence (and the accompanying gun safes etc) to collect flintlocks or matchlocks?

You don't need one - most blackpowder guns fall into the "obsolete calibre" catergory, and you don't need a license unless you intend to fire it. The understanding is you won't attempt to procure ammunition for the weapon; doing so of course contravenes the classification and makes it an "active" firearm, which must be registered. This also covers some victorian weapons such as pinfire revolvers. You should buy from a responsible dealer to ensure things are in the correct category. Working modern replicas will be classed as firearms, while original guns don't tend to be.
-Matt

N.b. obsolete calibre is distinct from "deactivated" - the guns are *nominally* in working condition, although i'd choose not to fire the vast majority of them.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:09:52 pm by Matthias Gladstone » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2014, 01:39:58 pm »

Quote
Silly question perhaps, but noticing you're in the UK, do you have to have a blackpowder licence or a shotgun licence (and the accompanying gun safes etc) to collect flintlocks or matchlocks?

You don't need one - most blackpowder guns fall into the "obsolete calibre" catergory, and you don't need a license unless you intend to fire it. The understanding is you won't attempt to procure ammunition for the weapon; doing so of course contravenes the classification and makes it an "active" firearm, which must be registered. This also covers some victorian weapons such as pinfire revolvers. You should buy from a responsible dealer to ensure things are in the correct category. Working modern replicas will be classed as firearms, while original guns don't tend to be.
-Matt

N.b. obsolete calibre is distinct from "deactivated" - the guns are *nominally* in working condition, although i'd choose not to fire the vast majority of them.

Would you mind posting pictures of the guns in a different thread?
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Heckler
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2014, 01:48:05 pm »

Working modern replicas will be classed as firearms, while original guns don't tend to be.
-Matt

Aha, here's where my confusion came from, I vaguely recalled seeing a note on the website of a replica flint-lock seller that mentioned the requirement for licences.  The part about 'obselete calibre' antiques being exempt is very interesting as I assumed the position was the same and I couldn't fulfill the requirements for a gun licence so didn't delve further.

Great information, thanks.
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D.Oakes
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2014, 02:03:00 pm »

You would think so.  But for some reason, the North African region held on to the various forms of flint lock for much longer than elsewhere - and the percussion cap was only invented around 1820.  If you were out in the back of beyond, you could usually find a scrap of flint somehow - but a steady supply of percussion caps was problematic, at best. 

So, it might be earlier; but without actually inspecting the piece personally, I couldn't put it any older than "about" mid-nineteenth.



Chas.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lock is older.  With Afghan jezails as I mentioned before, many of the percussion locks were switched back to flintlocks after the supply of caps ran out. 
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Cpt Davis R.D.P.C
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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2014, 03:07:23 pm »

As has been well put earlier..don’t need a license for anything, unless..I intended to fire it, as they will be classified as wall hangers (antiques of historical interest). I do incidentally have a Martin-Henry and a 9mm Belgian pi-fire which don’t need licences due to the obsolete nature but am seriously thinking about getting an Indian matchlock re-proofed for firing demonstrations, which would then come under a shotgun licence. The only problem then is getting a cabinet long enough to put it in!
I’ll see about taking some photos for you all...if I can work out how to attach them
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Cpt Davis R.D.P.C
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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2014, 07:56:50 pm »

Not sure if this will work trying to link it to FB but here goes.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152163899403491&set=a.5949118490.8729.744603490&type=3&theater


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152163899403491&set=a.5949118490.8729.744603490&type=3&theater
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Steampunk Away
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« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2014, 07:57:55 pm »

Did you try putting the image option around the links. I'm not sure if it works on FB bu it can't hurt to try.
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Cpt Davis R.D.P.C
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2014, 08:03:57 pm »

Seems that the link works to my FB page at least, so thats ok. I guess it highlights that I do have some knowledge of weapons  Wink
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Will Howard
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« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2014, 12:57:29 am »

- and the percussion cap was only invented around 1820. 

Traditionally, invented c. 1814-1815 by 1) Joshua Shaw in Philadelphia, U.S.A., & 2) Durs Egg or Nock in England...



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Cubinoid
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« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2014, 05:32:32 pm »

This is incredible information chaps, and has given me so much food for thought. Thank you!
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