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Author Topic: What you didn't know about Jack the Ripper  (Read 1938 times)
Maets
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« on: August 13, 2013, 03:04:53 am »

A number of interesting items about Jack the Ripper at Huff post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judith-flanders-/jack-the-ripper-what-you-_b_3733301.html
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 11:34:21 am »

I'm glad you put 'a number of interesting items' and not the 'things you didn't know' header that The Huff used. Like many I went through a 'Ripper' phase where I read everything available and I'd heard about most of this before.
 A lot of it is a bit 'tenuous', to say the least, but I suppose 'tenuous' could some up nearly all the information on the case. I won't say 'facts' 'cause the lack of many actual 'facts' is exactly why we are still fascinated to this day. So many possibilities and theories.
 It permeated the psyche of Victorian London like nothing had before and little has since.

Thanks for the link
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 12:37:03 pm »

I think Jack the Ripper was a fictional character, formed by urban legend. The killings where real, but the media and gossips made the murderer(s) into one single bogeyman. I think that's why they couldn't catch him. With the media, gossips mixed with facts, it would have been hard to tell what's real or not.
On the other hand, if the police at that time had so many false information with every case, there would have been a lot more unresolved murders and crimes.
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 04:40:29 am »

 I do believe most of the murders and some others were committed by the same person/s.  They do follow a consistent pattern and profile.  The most interesting and credible  theory I have see put forward   ( from an objective anthropological view) is that   the killer/ s were from the local area, male , meat workers and  Jewish immigrant.

Being that   : Offenders act in a triangle  that they are familiar with, coupled with  lack of  rapid means of travel or for  any distance at that time . He would most likely live and work in the vicinity of the crimes.

                : Violent sex homicides are more likely to be  committed by males,  16yr to 60yr

                 : The mutilation was not of a surgical standard but would  be facilitated by a meat workers  anatomical knowledge and butchering skills. The largest employment sector in the area was meat work. This would have  meant carrying knives  and other tools including a leather apron. It would also have been a reason / alibi for  being about in the area at those times of day.

                 :  The population in the area at that time was predominantly ( approx 80%)  Jewish male immigrants between 16 yr and 60yr who mainly worked in the local  meat work industry. The odds of  the murderer/s being in this demographic were there for very high high at that time and place. 

 [disclaimer : this is not to implicate Semitic males in any way,  in violent crime in general. ]
   

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Maets
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 01:34:16 am »

More info on Jack the Ripper - Solved?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/jack-the-ripper-solved-investigation-german-sailor_n_3981837.html
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Heckler
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 10:09:45 am »

Solved?

no.  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 10:54:11 am »

So the fact that there where gaps of time bitween murders indicates that the murderer could be a traveller?
The fact that the victims where prostitutes and sailors tend to go to prostitutes indicates that the murderer could be a sailor?
A lawyer of a sailor had once told reporters he believed his client had confessed to the crimes?
That's it?  Sad
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Heckler
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 11:55:06 am »

So the fact that there where gaps of time bitween murders indicates that the murderer could be a traveller?
The fact that the victims where prostitutes and sailors tend to go to prostitutes indicates that the murderer could be a sailor?
A lawyer of a sailor had once told reporters he believed his client had confessed to the crimes?
That's it?  Sad

There's still money in Saucy Jack so there are still folks who'll peddle their personal theory.  Most of them suffer from the conspiracy theory staple of logical disconnect that posits that if (a) were true, then we can extrapolate that (b) is true therefore (c) and (d) are true but the whole thing falls down because there isn't a shred of evidence that (a) is true.

It is a fascinating subject (I still do tours of the area for friends and family) but attempting at this stage to put a name to this murderer(s) is a rather Quixotic endeavour.
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 10:46:21 am »

So he's like Nessie, Bigfoot, Ogopogo etcetera.
Finding the real Jack the Ripper, without reasonable doubt, would end the mistique and possibly the charm of him.
A vague discovery or leed would stir up the legend and will attract tourists.

That said: I've heared from my neigbours uncles barbers milkman that his great great grandfather was Jack the Ripper. He was a traveller, but not a German sailor, but a Dutch traveling salesman. He used to live in a house not far from my place. For €120 per person I can give a 30 minute tour to Jack the Ripper's house and favourate hangouts.  Wink
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Capt. Dirigible
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 11:03:20 am »

Quote
I've heared from my neigbours uncles barbers milkman that his great great grandfather was Jack the Ripper

So more 'Jan (van) Der Ripper'
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 01:22:08 pm »

Jack the Ripper shot JFK.
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 02:13:21 pm »

I think I've found a way out of my financial situation. A Jack the Ripper franchise. Allegedly, Jack was a traveller of some sort. So basically, Jack the Ripper could have been anywhere. From Europe to USA to Canada, Australia. All I have to do is create a somewhat believable story and if possible a Victorian style city, and I can start a tour. Different tours all over the world with all different stories. To make it more realistic, I have to overlap the stories, perhaps write a book. And merchandise: Jack the Ripper lunchbox, Jack the Ripper pen and paper, Jack the Ripper colouringbook.  Wink
I'm off to the bank for a loan!  Grin
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Heckler
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 04:43:48 pm »

I think I've found a way out of my financial situation. A Jack the Ripper franchise. Allegedly, Jack was a traveller of some sort. So basically, Jack the Ripper could have been anywhere. From Europe to USA to Canada, Australia. All I have to do is create a somewhat believable story and if possible a Victorian style city, and I can start a tour. Different tours all over the world with all different stories. To make it more realistic, I have to overlap the stories, perhaps write a book. And merchandise: Jack the Ripper lunchbox, Jack the Ripper pen and paper, Jack the Ripper colouringbook.  Wink
I'm off to the bank for a loan!  Grin

A walk in Brighton in the UK is marketed as a 'Jack the Ripper and ghost walk' because someone named as a suspect by Fred Abberline (and a not a very good one at that) once stayed for a few days above a pub in the city.

The definition of tenuous.......
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Capt. Dirigible
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 04:54:44 pm »

A friend of mine used to do a really good Ripper walk round Whitechapel. Very, very well researched and fascinating. However  lots of the locals find it ghoulish and morbid and he would get a lot of stick as we went round. Also..Whitechapel  is still quite an unpleasant/dodgy area to be wandering round after dark..and even in the daytime despite attemps at 'gentrification' and 'urban re-developement'. But his walk would end up at The Ten Bells pub which has been there since the days of Jack the Ripper and  was where one of his victims was last seen alive leaving. For a while it changed it's name to 'The Jack the Ripper' but  women's anti violence groups and similar feminist pressure groups complained loud enough so it's name was changed back to The Ten Bells. Rockula and I were in the just a few weeks back.
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Rockula
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2013, 05:12:39 pm »

A friend of mine used to do a really good Ripper walk round Whitechapel. Very, very well researched and fascinating. However  lots of the locals find it ghoulish and morbid and he would get a lot of stick as we went round. Also..Whitechapel  is still quite an unpleasant/dodgy area to be wandering round after dark..and even in the daytime despite attemps at 'gentrification' and 'urban re-developement'. But his walk would end up at The Ten Bells pub which has been there since the days of Jack the Ripper and  was where one of his victims was last seen alive leaving. For a while it changed it's name to 'The Jack the Ripper' but  women's anti violence groups and similar feminist pressure groups complained loud enough so it's name was changed back to The Ten Bells. Rockula and I were in the just a few weeks back.

Nice beer. Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 10:57:29 am »

They used to have 'Jack the Rippers' in the cockney rhyming slang sense when the pub was called the The Jack the Ripper.  The area has certainly gone up in the world in the last fifteen years, when I first started working in the City at the end of the last century it was a dog rough once you went past the Commercial road, mind you when you consider the history of Dorset street (no longer there but where White's Row Car park abutts an access road) that makes most streets in London seem gentile.
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Rockula
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2013, 12:04:40 pm »

Old Spitalfields (opposite the Whitechapel itself) and Petticoat Lane (Middlesex Street) markets used to be a place of wonder before the area was 'cleaned up' and 'gentrified' in the '80's. And they were so much bigger. There were quirky stalls and shops selling all kinds of wonderful knick-knacks and goodies. I loved the unusual clothes shops, vintage, punk, esoteric, art....

You could spend a day at them. Now it only takes a couple of hours and a quick perusal to realise most of it is worthless tat. And not even tat worth 'modding' or clothes that would appeal to Steampunks.

Of course, the area is much safer for prostitutes now....
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 12:08:15 pm »

I wonder if a serial killer from present time will have the same marketing influence in the next century.

On a side note: A few years after 9/11 I saw a bouncy castle at a fair, shaped like the Titanic. I felt vicarious shame for it. I mean, imagine in little under 100 years, there is going to be a bouncy castle shaped as the twin towers.  Sad


Back to Jack: Is there a way, after all these years, to find the real Jack the Ripper? And I'm talking about without reasonable doubt concrete proof. The kind of proof that would convict him of multiple murder, if he was still alive. For now it's just leads and insinuations and hear-say.
Let's say that the sailor theory is our lead. Is there the possibility to track down the sailor's whereabouts at the time of the murders? Is there evidence that can only lead to the sailor?
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2013, 12:41:59 pm »

Let's say that the sailor theory is our lead. Is there the possibility to track down the sailor's whereabouts at the time of the murders? Is there evidence that can only lead to the sailor?

I suppose if the logs of the ships or the port register were still available you could prove that a particular ship was in port during the murders and if you could find the pay records of those ships you could say that a person of that name was in town during the murders.  The problem particularly with sailors was they could sign on under any name for the length of the voyage, get paid and disappear then sign up under a different name on a different ship.  A sailor with something to hide could easily disappear at sea for years.

I guess the simple answer is no.   Smiley

I suppose the holy grail would be something with the killer's DNA on it where that person has a comparison relative that belonged to a victim and has been untouched since the murders.  But even then I suppose you could only prove a familial link.

We came close with a portion of Eddowes apron that a policeman had allegedly stolen at some point before moving to Australia.  The apron surfaced and was tested for DNA but was thick with various different DNA as it had been handed around freely for years by it's owner and therefore had little evidential value (if it was genuine at all).
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2013, 12:56:09 pm »

Back to Jack: Is there a way, after all these years, to find the real Jack the Ripper? And I'm talking about without reasonable doubt concrete proof. The kind of proof that would convict him of multiple murder, if he was still alive. For now it's just leads and insinuations and hear-say.
Let's say that the sailor theory is our lead. Is there the possibility to track down the sailor's whereabouts at the time of the murders? Is there evidence that can only lead to the sailor?

I doubt it. As a genealogist I have realised that it is nearly impossible to find someone who didn't want to be found. I have been trying to track down the slightly dodgy great grandfather of a friend of mine in east London at about the same time and its a nightmare, I can't even track his whereabouts at 10 year intervals, let alone find his locations at a certain dates. It was too easy to lie on official documents.

Time to get to work on that time machine.....

~A~
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 01:26:01 pm »

Back to Jack: Is there a way, after all these years, to find the real Jack the Ripper? And I'm talking about without reasonable doubt concrete proof. The kind of proof that would convict him of multiple murder, if he was still alive. For now it's just leads and insinuations and hear-say.
Let's say that the sailor theory is our lead. Is there the possibility to track down the sailor's whereabouts at the time of the murders? Is there evidence that can only lead to the sailor?

I doubt it. As a genealogist I have realised that it is nearly impossible to find someone who didn't want to be found. I have been trying to track down the slightly dodgy great grandfather of a friend of mine in east London at about the same time and its a nightmare, I can't even track his whereabouts at 10 year intervals, let alone find his locations at a certain dates. It was too easy to lie on official documents.

Time to get to work on that time machine.....

~A~

So basically, whatever story one comes up with, it will remain a story. With little to nothing to scientifically back up.
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 01:47:47 pm »

Just like they did it in the old days, eh? Wink
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 10:09:15 am »

Take this for what you think it's worth, but regarding the name "Jack the Ripper" I once saw a TV programme where they "proved" That the letters containing that moniker was a hoax perpetrated by one of the newspapers to increase sales. It was long enough ago that I really don't recall the details. To quote, or possibly paraphrase, Solomon. "There is nothing new under the sun".
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 09:42:59 pm »

That is correct. The closest to an accepted "genuine" letter from the killer was the "From Hell" letter, but even that one is hotly debated.
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 10:33:42 pm »

I wonder if a serial killer from present time will have the same marketing influence in the next century.

On a side note: A few years after 9/11 I saw a bouncy castle at a fair, shaped like the Titanic. I felt vicarious shame for it. I mean, imagine in little under 100 years, there is going to be a bouncy castle shaped as the twin towers.  Sad


Back to Jack: Is there a way, after all these years, to find the real Jack the Ripper? And I'm talking about without reasonable doubt concrete proof. The kind of proof that would convict him of multiple murder, if he was still alive. For now it's just leads and insinuations and hear-say.
Let's say that the sailor theory is our lead. Is there the possibility to track down the sailor's whereabouts at the time of the murders? Is there evidence that can only lead to the sailor?

The problem is that generally criminal investigations have two stages, first establishing a likely suspect and then finding the concrete proof required to prove that they did it.

One of the reasons that the ripper case has attracted so many prominent suspects may be that these are the only people that much is known about. It it was just some anonymous person there simply isn't the information to know anything at all about them.

In fact many of the most notorious serial killers of modern times have been notable for their anonymity, and the phrase 'the pretty much kept to themselves and seemed normal enough' has become a bit if a cliché in the annals of grisly crime.
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