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Author Topic: The Fourth Doctor Who Thread - with a huge scarf  (Read 53688 times)
Herr Döktor
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« Reply #200 on: November 15, 2013, 07:10:26 pm »

That nice Mr. Moffat has this to say about regeneration:



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« Reply #201 on: November 15, 2013, 08:25:58 pm »

That nice Mr. Moffat has this to say about regeneration:



Christmas seems so far away...

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« Reply #202 on: November 15, 2013, 09:23:58 pm »

That nice Mr. Moffat has this to say about regeneration:



Christmas seems so far away...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

~A~

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Reply #203 on: November 15, 2013, 09:55:14 pm »

And a short clip from the special.



The Day of the Doctor: A Preview - BBC Children in Need: 2013 - BBC


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« Reply #204 on: November 16, 2013, 11:22:53 pm »



As I've said I'm a little sketchy on past episodes so I have to ask. Has the suggestion that he could regenerate as a woman ever been made in the main show before? I'm aware of the alt world stories but I mean specifically the main show. If not that mini episode has just made it Canon and that's pretty huge TBH.

I do like the idea of evolving and increasingly random regenerations for the future. But now with talk of Capaldi leaving after just one series, I hope the whole concept doesn't get squashed by what I fear may end up being a rapidly revolving door.
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« Reply #205 on: November 17, 2013, 12:06:48 am »

As I've said I'm a little sketchy on past episodes so I have to ask. Has the suggestion that he could regenerate as a woman ever been made in the main show before? I'm aware of the alt world stories but I mean specifically the main show. If not that mini episode has just made it Canon and that's pretty huge TBH.


In the Doctor's Wife (6th series), Matt Smith mentions another timelord, the Corsair, who was female "a couple of times". However as it's only a throwaway line, he doesn't mention whether this is a natural part of the regeneration process (in which case it could happen to the Doctor) or can only happen through artificial means (as suggested in the Night of the Doctor).

Here's a clip:
Corsair
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« Reply #206 on: November 17, 2013, 12:08:57 am »

Yes, in the Doctors Wife.

The revelation in Night of the Doctor would suggest the number of missing episodes has gone up to 132 (from 97), but fortunately as with the other missing episodes, we have full audio for each of these.

I suspect other eigth Doctor episodes will soon be found to be missing.

This proves that time can indeed be re-written.

But only if it is the Moff doing the writing.

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« Reply #207 on: November 18, 2013, 12:07:09 pm »

This really needs to happen....

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-11-17/doctor-who-star-paul-mcgann---id-be-up-for-playing-the-doctor-again

and as always, there is a petition...

http://comfychairzine.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/doctorwho-fans-unite-petition-for-paul.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Feed:+ComfyChairANyBasedDoctorWhoOnlinezine+%28Comfy+Chair+Home+of+Myth+Ink+Books%29
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« Reply #208 on: November 18, 2013, 01:15:44 pm »

"How the writers would get round that given that he seems to come between Sylvester McCoy and John Hurt is anyone’s guess."

Er... set the stories in that period.  Not exactly rocket science (or time travel for that matter)
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« Reply #209 on: November 18, 2013, 01:41:59 pm »

"How the writers would get round that given that he seems to come between Sylvester McCoy and John Hurt is anyone’s guess."

Er... set the stories in that period.  Not exactly rocket science (or time travel for that matter)

I've often thought that there should be no problem having the occasional 'one off' TV episodes or 'specials' set in previous Doctor's time-lines. But maybe it's this thing of the 'current' Doctor being the 'big star' that stops it. But doesn't, for some reason, stop old Doctor's making hundreds of audio dramas in character.

If this new Docu-drama with David Bradley as William Hartnell proves anything it's that you wouldn't even have to have the original actor.

I'd love to see Reece Shearsmith's 2nd Doctor given an hour or two. Smiley
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« Reply #210 on: November 18, 2013, 02:35:53 pm »

We have episodes without much of the Doctor in them, so why not do another "New and Old" episode but have an unfinished storyline that sends the Eight Doctor in one direction and the current Doctor into another, each with a task or problem to solve.

Even better, do a Keys of Time type season and have each episode with a different Doctor, meeting in a double episode climax.

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« Reply #211 on: November 18, 2013, 05:34:59 pm »

As per could-he-be-female and the Corsair, there's always the possibility that the Corsair never changed sex, but did change gender. And we're assuming that Time Lords subscribe to the human gender binary in any case.
Then there's this exchange from The Sarah Jane Adventures, which are Whoniverse canon.
Clyde: Do you always have to be white?
Doctor: No, I can be anything.
Clyde: And how many times can you do it?
Doctor: Five hundred and seven.
Personally, I'd rather see a black Doctor than a female one, given the current boys-only writing team- all accolades to them, but if the Doctor must become a woman, I'd rather it be under a showrunner with experience in writing transsexual characters and with at least one woman regularly contributing scripts. Besides, feminism is served much better by having a wide range of female characters (strong, weak, good, evil, etc.) than by having one female protagonist.
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« Reply #212 on: November 18, 2013, 07:44:49 pm »

Now would have been the time, as the Doctor is on his last life, just for the sheer surprise. Huge death scene where the Doctor is at peace in meeting the end (unlike the Master, Morbius, Borussa, omega etc)

"I'm not dead! I'm.... a woman!! and  I'm still not ginger!!!"

In the many, many future regenerations of the Doctor in some he is black, in some he is a woman, in few he is a black woman, but in none of them is he ginger.

Part of me hopes Capaldi isnt the next Doctor and is part of a huge bluff.

It might be interesting to see a female Master, it would certainly change the whole Doctor/Master Dynamic, and their 'fascination' with each other, especially if Alex Kingston took on the role playing against Capaldi's Doctor.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 07:49:41 pm by Mr Peter Harrow, Esq » Logged
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« Reply #213 on: November 19, 2013, 01:05:13 am »

I suggest watching the comedy special "The Curse of Fatal Death", written by Steven Moffat and available on Youtube, which covers many of the things you want to see.
"Not ginger" only came onto the show in 2005, he never mentioned it before then. It's a decent running gag but in my opinion it doesn't need to run forever.
I think Mr. Capaldi's going to be a brilliant Doctor. Or Valeyard. Or whoever he's meant to be. He's been cast, people.
If there's gonna be a female Master, there has to be a female Doctor as well. Het relationships are taken for granted- they often come out of nowhere (Martha and Mickey? When did they have chemistry?) but are accepted by fandom because heterosexual relationships are considered (wrongly) normal. It's awful but it's there. And no matter how hard I ship it, I don't ever want to see the Best Enemies ship become canon- because the twisted nature of the connection between Theta Sigma and Koschei is something darker and more broken and bitter than can ever be healed by a snogging scene with romantic violin background. And Alex Kingston? Given the foofaraw over Mr. Capaldi having played an extremely minor part on Who before (have we forgotten Commander Maxil's surprising resemblance to the Sixth Doctor? Princess Astra's to Romana II?), she'll never be cast as anything but Professor River Song.
And, as a feminist, I don't want to see a female Doctor either. What would it solve? If we need strong female characters, we need to write them- not switch a protagonist's sex and gender just because we can, just because it would be "cool". Bring back Romana or the Rani if you want a Time Lady. Bring back Ace or Susan or Brigadier Bambera if you want a strong woman. Write a new female character and make her a good character. Don't shove a male protagonist who relies on intelligence rather than violence to solve problems, who doesn't discriminate by race or class or gender or sexuality, into a female skin just because you want to make jokes about her new tits. And there would be that. After regeneration, there's always a period of "this new body is weird", isn't there? Now think how it would seem: "female bodies are weird". As a woman, I already have to deal with society's messages telling me my body is wrong, too thin and too fat and too small and too pale and too hairy and too curvy and too bloody and too ugly. We're taught to hate ourselves. It would break my heart to see the Doctor sending those same messages. Not to mention that regeneration is a weird alien thing done by weird aliens. If there's to be a transgender person on Doctor Who-and there should be- they should be a companion, a normal human, because being transgender is a normal human thing. I'm all for fem!Doctor fanart, though- I draw quite a bit of it, and I draw fem!Masters (Mistresses, I guess) and guy!companions and girl!companions. Playing with gender is all lots of fun, but if you're going to suggest a major change you have to think through everything it implies.
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« Reply #214 on: November 19, 2013, 10:50:19 am »

I also don't really think that the doctor should be a women, at least not yet. The trick that they have managed to pull off so far is that for all the changes, you still believe he is the same person. They have done it for all ages and I think it would be easy enough for race as well.

But if the doctor became a woman it would be much harder to maintain that continuity and the whole dynamic with the companions would change. Do you continue with a female primary companion or perhaps a male companion? But what would their relationship be with the doctor? Think of the scene where Amy corners the doctor in her bedroom and kisses him. It isn't so funny and innocent if you reverse the genders...

I would love to say that it wouldn't make the tiniest difference, and that the genders of both doctor and companions could be shuffled every few seasons without note, but the sad truth is that our society still sees men and women as very different and therefore by making the doctor a women you risk changing the show to the extent that it is a completely different show. Perhaps a few more doctors down the line this will be different.
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« Reply #215 on: November 19, 2013, 11:13:54 am »

Quote
It might be interesting to see a female Master, it would certainly change the whole Doctor/Master Dynamic,

But she'd be 'The Mistress'...which puts a whole different slant on everything. Unless she turns up in a latex dominatrix outfit.
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« Reply #216 on: November 19, 2013, 02:17:59 pm »

Quote
It might be interesting to see a female Master, it would certainly change the whole Doctor/Master Dynamic,

But she'd be 'The Mistress'...which puts a whole different slant on everything. Unless she turns up in a latex dominatrix outfit.

I can see both The Master and the Doctor agreeing that is just wrong given Timelord prudishness.
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« Reply #217 on: November 19, 2013, 05:41:02 pm »

That's the thing, really. If the Doctor or the Master becomes a woman, she'd be sexualized. It's inescapable. And that's stupid, but it bloody happens. I mean, just think about the post-regeneration scene! Even if they didn't do the "LOL BEWBZ NAO" joke (snowball's chance on Pyrevilia), that's still a scene of a disoriented woman wandering around in ill-fitting men's clothing, with no bra on, confused and vulnerable, looking like she'd just been roofied. What a lovely way to introduce a strong, non-sexualized female character, I don't think.
I try to keep my fem'd fanarts showing about the same amount of skin as their male counterparts. Except Six, who would totally wear a miniskirt if he was a woman.
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« Reply #218 on: November 19, 2013, 05:57:11 pm »

Is everybody enjoying the Whofest? Non-believers are already asking "won't you get fed up with it soon?" How little they know...

Re. Dr.Who gender. Doctor Who is an alien, a time travelling, two hearted, visitor from another planet/galaxy/dimension. It seems that 'he' adopts the form of a white, male, human and parts of the plot titles suggest he has a niece, a wife and a daughter. Although Jenny is cloned from his cells and his wife is a (the) Tardis, so discussing human gender politics seems to miss the whole point to me. A better question would be surely "why does it always regenerate as a male, white, human"? The possible answers are far more worrying IMO!

Also, the concept of time travel means that the show runner has every opportunity to go on indefinitely. Why can't we go back and do a new series featuring the fifth Doctor, or the seventh, using suitable new actors (as the original actors would have stopped ageing when they regenerated I assume). Also we only know of the companions that featured in previous stories. I am sure that all regenerations would have had many more companions in their time. This opens the way for more variation in age, colour, gender and species of companion. There don't have to be any new regenerations other than the Valeyard (which can be kept over for - say - the 60th anniversary. All the writers have to do is resurrect Doctors 1 to 12 as required!

OK Steve - how's that for a couple of ideas? (I am sure he reads this thread....)

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« Reply #219 on: November 19, 2013, 06:07:12 pm »

That's the thing, really. If the Doctor or the Master becomes a woman, she'd be sexualized. It's inescapable. And that's stupid, but it bloody happens. I mean, just think about the post-regeneration scene! Even if they didn't do the "LOL BEWBZ NAO" joke (snowball's chance on Pyrevilia), that's still a scene of a disoriented woman wandering around in ill-fitting men's clothing, with no bra on, confused and vulnerable, looking like she'd just been roofied. What a lovely way to introduce a strong, non-sexualized female character, I don't think.
I try to keep my fem'd fanarts showing about the same amount of skin as their male counterparts. Except Six, who would totally wear a miniskirt if he was a woman.

Well I doubt it'd be like the 2011 comic relief special where they had Joanna Lumley play the role of the doctor for a scene?
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« Reply #220 on: November 19, 2013, 09:09:42 pm »


And, as a feminist, I don't want to see a female Doctor either. What would it solve? If we need strong female characters, we need to write them- not switch a protagonist's sex and gender just because we can, just because it would be "cool".

 *snip*

 If there's to be a transgender person on Doctor Who-and there should be- they should be a companion, a normal human, because being transgender is a normal human thing.

*snip*


That's an interesting premise.  This looks like a topic that would mesh in the last 5 or so pages in the Queer Geer thread
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20391.1725.html
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« Reply #221 on: November 19, 2013, 09:42:07 pm »

That's the thing, really. If the Doctor or the Master becomes a woman, she'd be sexualized. It's inescapable. *snip*

Well I doubt it'd be like the 2011 comic relief special where they had Joanna Lumley play the role of the doctor for a scene?
You doubt it? Some might have doubted that there'd be endless jokes about the sonic screwdriver representing the Doctor's penis. Yet look, we haven't scraped the bottom of that barrel yet.
I loved The Curse of Fatal Death, but a lot of things about it- like the "I've got etheric beam manipulators!" joke- were only funny because they were in a non-canon humor special. Kind of like how anything you play in Cards Against Humanity is super-offensive out of the context of the game.
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« Reply #222 on: November 20, 2013, 12:53:55 am »

That's the thing, really. If the Doctor or the Master becomes a woman, she'd be sexualized. It's inescapable. *snip*


Well I doubt it'd be like the 2011 comic relief special where they had Joanna Lumley play the role of the doctor for a scene?

You doubt it? Some might have doubted that there'd be endless jokes about the sonic screwdriver representing the Doctor's penis. Yet look, we haven't scraped the bottom of that barrel yet.
I loved The Curse of Fatal Death, but a lot of things about it- like the "I've got etheric beam manipulators!" joke- were only funny because they were in a non-canon humor special. Kind of like how anything you play in Cards Against Humanity is super-offensive out of the context of the game.


Well I'm not too worried about sexualized humour about a female / transgender Doctor - They have allready covered gay / bisexual relationships, omnisexuality / pansexuality (albeit with a reference to a poodle in Torchwood), interspecies relationships and asexuality. Non have been particularly derisive even when used to comedic effect. For example Capt Jack and the Doctor have kissed on screen, and Jack is openly bisexual regardless of species. The Doctor has been attracted to other species also, though typically feminine ones (though they were not necessarily 'female' in our understanding of reproductive organs...).

Infact one of the best examples is the relationship between Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint and Strax. Vastra and Jenny are in a lesbian interspecies relationship (and it's been stated that Jenny is openly gay, and that being the reason for her family rejecting her during the less understanding Victorian era), and Strax is a clone without a definitive sex, so in effect asexual. Strax only has a tenuous basic grasp of "male" and "female", but is easily confused by sexuality and separate sexes - as a result 'he' often refers to Jenny as "boy" because his only knowedge of relationships is what he has observed in passing, which is predominantly male - female on most worlds. Also Jenny is distinctly 'butch' in her approach, and Vastra is strong but 'femme', adding to his confusion.

Actually, this video sums it up well:




It was funny without being insulting, derisive or falling into the usual traps of gay jokes and stereotypes.

Also other SCIFI genres have covered interchanging sexes of leading characters, such as Startrek DS9 where the species 'Trill' co-exists with a sentient symbiotic organism known as a symbiont inside their bodies. The character 'Dax' is a symbiont who was removed from a female 'host' to a male one during one episode. The female hosted Dax is also often referred to as "old man" by Captain Sisko, who knew Dax in a previous male host.
Startrek next gen also featured androgynous or hermaphroditic species, and the concept of multiple sexes, such as the 'Cogenitor'.

The groundwork for establishing sexual orientations and changing of gender is well established in TV SCIFI. So, it is possible a female Doctor could appear on screen without jokes about tits or other schoolboy humor. I would say a female Doctor would probably be portrayed somewhat similarly to River Song's strong character, and probably do quite well.
I think we are still sometime away from a 'Female Doctor' though, It would be too easy to lose viewer identity to 'The Doctor'. Only time will tell though... Wink

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« Reply #223 on: November 21, 2013, 06:48:22 am »

Another short clip from the special.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In addition, I found this lovely little list of all the mini-episodes of NuWho, complete with links, in case anyone missed some and wants to catch up.
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« Reply #224 on: November 21, 2013, 11:41:24 am »

So, who else had a bit of fun putting themselves in 'SaveTheDay' invite/credit sequence?

https://www.facebook.com/DoctorWho/app_171759299684291
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