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Author Topic: What's wrong with bullets?  (Read 3771 times)
Stormcat
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« on: January 11, 2013, 10:22:59 pm »

It seems like with every Steampunk Adventurer or Pirate, or Spy or even paranoid Mad Scientist are armed with a ray gun.

Not to hate on those who like the concepts of Ray guns, but I must ask, what is wrong with bullet-shooting guns!?! It's not like we can't get fake ones to modify to our liking, But as a RL sport shooter, Why are there no Flintlocks or revolvers or even a blunderbuss that (pretends to) fire bullets instead of beams of light?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 10:24:53 pm by Stormcat » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 10:46:55 pm »

Sean Connery in the 1981 movie Outland uses a shotgun.  Set way in the future on a distant planet and no rayguns. 

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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 10:54:51 pm »

It's really rather unlikely we'll ever walk around using rayguns. A normal slug-thrower is just so much more practical and cheaper.
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 04:34:29 am »

Partly because it is far easier to get an obviously non-functional 'ray-gun' past con security.

Until I begin dealing out terawatts of HOT DEATH!!!!!  AHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!... hack, choke... sorry.

Really - if it looks like it could have once launched some sort of projectile, it can be problematic.  If it is a ray-gun... well, nobody has manufactured a man-pack "la-ser" that can kill... yet... or so they think.

Personally, I prefer the reliability of the little demons locked up in the sulfurous devil-powder.  They almost always go Bang! when you want 'em to, whereas relying on electrickery is always a chancy thing.  What if the power company has shut you off, or you forgot to put a shilling in the meter...




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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 08:02:03 am »

Moriarty used an air rifle. Nemo used a spear gun.
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greensteam
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 10:00:45 pm »

It's really rather unlikely we'll ever walk around using rayguns. A normal slug-thrower is just so much more practical and cheaper.

Now you are talking. My garden is chock full of slugs. can yoiu please design me a slugthrower? I would prefer the abnormal sort, but will accept normal if you are pressed for time......

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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 11:01:46 pm »

It's really rather unlikely we'll ever walk around using rayguns. A normal slug-thrower is just so much more practical and cheaper.

Now you are talking. My garden is chock full of slugs. can yoiu please design me a slugthrower? I would prefer the abnormal sort, but will accept normal if you are pressed for time......

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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 11:39:38 pm »

How many shots does your ray gun get on a charge?

Does it have a stun option or something else besides wound/kill?
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Stormcat
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 12:35:34 am »

How many shots does your ray gun get on a charge?

Does it have a stun option or something else besides wound/kill?

Precisely. With bullet-shooters you don't have to charge them, you know damned well there's no "stun option" and you know exactly how many shots it can carry before re-loading.
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 03:32:42 am »

     I don't have a problem with rayguns per se (although my personal preference is in favor of regular guns), but I do have a problem when they are used in circumstances when bullets would make more sense or as a euphemistic substitute for chemical projectile weapons. Often directed energy weapons are shown to be commonplace in universes well below the general technology level one would expect to be required to create them. Other times, they are used as a euphemistic substitute for actual firearms.

     Does anybody remember those phasers that looked more like electric shavers than they did weapons which appeared in Startrek: The Next Generation (at least I think it was the next generation)? I'm guessing the creators were trying to create a utopian, pacifistic image of the future, but it just came off to me as annoying. A phaser is obviously a weapon, therefore it should look like one.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2013, 07:34:17 am »

Does anybody remember those phasers that looked more like electric shavers than they did weapons which appeared in Startrek: The Next Generation (at least I think it was the next generation)? I'm guessing the creators were trying to create a utopian, pacifistic image of the future, but it just came off to me as annoying. A phaser is obviously a weapon, therefore it should look like one.

The original 1960's Star Trek phaser pistol had a smaller, electric-shaver-like mini phaser that could be detached from the top of the pistol. I think that the Next-Gen phaser was an attempt to simplify the design to something resembling a large mini-phaser. It always looked to me like it would be hard to aim.
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Trae Dorn
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 08:02:18 am »

To be fair, the phaser rifles always looked like rifles.

For costumes, ray guns keep you out of real world trouble - for fiction, I always prefer regular guns.  Heck, my favorite part about Firefly is that most people were still just shooting bullets.
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 09:28:28 am »

Trae's right. Rayguns are more playful and fun. Here in the US at least, realistic firearms tend to make hotels, businesses, and people on the street quite nervous.

Certainly slug-throwers can be futuristic. Using magnetic rails, exotic chemicals, or even self propelled bullets instead of old fashioned gunpowder.

I don't bother with them myself though, unless they look very Victorian.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 09:30:05 am by Herbert West » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 03:02:29 pm »

My tuppence-worth:

In fiction, I tend to prefer projectile weaponry, if only because if you can somehow miniaturise that kind of power into a handgun, why isn't everything powered by these mythical power-sources?
And there are more than enough 'steamy' or 'could-have-been' projectile pistols and rifles to fulfil any necessary plot role.

In costumage/larp I'm not a big fan either way. I carry too many RL guns outside of SP to be interested in the pointing painted-nerfs at each other aspect of SP.

In makery, I have to restrain the evil urge to BeCoggle(tm) my RL guns so I can open/concealed-carry them as "fake-painted-nerfery"  e.g. in various portrayals F.B.S. hefts a .455cal Gentleman's Pump-action Walking-cane, in RL I keep looking at rifles like the .45Colt Lightning repeater and trying not to add a brass pistolgrip/canehandle and just-glue-cogs-on-it  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2013, 09:28:57 pm »

Radar came out of a failed research programme to try and develop a functioning raygun.
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RJBowman
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 04:40:20 pm »

So did Cheese Whiz.
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 07:29:08 pm »

Radar came out of a failed research programme to try and develop a functioning raygun.

Ah, that's what we they want you to think!

 Grin



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Trae Dorn
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 08:53:30 pm »

Unless it's a mind control ray -- then it becomes WHAT THEY THINK YOU TO WANT!
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2013, 09:35:18 pm »

I think put simply Ray Guns are a classic Sci Fi trope and Steampunk can be very Sci Fi. I agree they can seem a little puzzling and out of place in some contexts. But they do of course avoid the alarm and controversy that realistic weaponry can often cause.
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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 10:51:08 pm »

Nothing... I have a friend who's painted a toy bullet type gun for his steampunk costume (I wonder if I mentioned to him that he shouldn't paint the orange muzzle when I lent him paint for it). As mentioned above rayguns help keep you out of trouble, because there are a lot of laws about weapons and in fact, things that look like real weapons. A mod of a real weapon that no longer works is still considered potential dangerous.

Admittedly rayguns are also fun, (then, so is a blunderbuss) and they often have a certain elegance to the way they look, and for cons it's a lot about presentation, isn't it?
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 12:54:33 am »

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about gun control here but if that has changed, great! Its about time.

While some American states restrict open carry the vast majority, 37, allow it so there is no reason to carry a fake gun if there is a real gun that you like and unless a motel etc has a posted no guns policy then they can be nervous all they want but legally cannot do a blessed thing, and in some states they only way they can even have a no gun policy is if the provide armed guards for the safety of their guests.

 Never assume that something is illegal just because some people get nervous, look at your actual laws before bowing to mediocrity. If you assume a law exists its only a matter of time until it actually does and mediocrity becomes the law of the land and pretty soon 'looking funny in public' will be a crime.
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 01:17:16 am »

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about gun control here but if that has changed, great! Its about time.

It's not about time. Please, let's leave the issue of gun control in the 21st Century where it belongs. This is not the forum for that discussion.
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 01:36:30 am »

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about gun control here but if that has changed, great! Its about time.

While some American states restrict open carry the vast majority, 37, allow it so there is no reason to carry a fake gun if there is a real gun that you like and unless a motel etc has a posted no guns policy then they can be nervous all they want but legally cannot do a blessed thing, and in some states they only way they can even have a no gun policy is if the provide armed guards for the safety of their guests.

 Never assume that something is illegal just because some people get nervous, look at your actual laws before bowing to mediocrity. If you assume a law exists its only a matter of time until it actually does and mediocrity becomes the law of the land and pretty soon 'looking funny in public' will be a crime.
Umm... Every convention I've ever been to bans real guns. Most don't allow swords. It's part of the con policies, and agreeing to said policies is part of admission.

So yes, they can legally can do something - they can kick you out of the event.
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Shadow Of The Tower
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 01:42:11 am »

Quote
Umm... Every convention I've ever been to bans real guns. Most don't allow swords. It's part of the con policies, and agreeing to said policies is part of admission.

So yes, they can legally can do something - they can kick you out of the event.

If its in their polices then its in their polices. I've never been to one that bans swords, if they tried that around here I think they would have very few attendee's, especially since most of the big vendors are live steel merchants and the table fees are what keep the things running.

Quote
It's not about time. Please, let's leave the issue of gun control in the 21st Century where it belongs. This is not the forum for that discussion.

This is the 21 century, like it or not.
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 01:46:42 am »

Stay on topic please, the OP posted nothing regarding gun law, so please move away from that particular topic. This is going nicely so far, I don't want to have to lock it, so please continue ON topic Smiley
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