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Author Topic: The Fitziron Works Steampunk Railway  (Read 7593 times)
Angus A Fitziron
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« on: October 18, 2012, 08:56:42 pm »

Well, I have done a fair bit of planning and test running and it is getting round to the time to make some decisions, so the railway has a thread!
The proposal is for a shelf layout, 8' by 1' 6", which sits along one wall of my den on top of two 4' long book cases. There are a number of decisions to be made, some done, some still fluid.

Scale - 1/36, ie 3 feet to the inch. I am using 1/35 military modelling figures as a source to base my figures / animals / vehicles on.
Gauge - 16.5mm which scales out to 2' full size, ie narrow gauge, often used for O16.5 this side of the pond and On30 elsewhere.
Location - still undecided, but the gauge lends itself to industrial / rural / suburban local railway. Originally I was looking at the military railways of the Haut Rhin and Vosges area of France circa 1880. The Exposition Universelle was staged in Paris in 1889 and had a 2' (60cms) railway built specially and was the same expo that the Eiffel Tower was built for. This event has a good number of visual records so providing helpful steampunk elements.
Layout - needs to be interesting to operate - I am a complete beginner and this is my first layout. I have a loop at one end but the 7" radius curve is too tight. It may be only just too tight and I am doing more experiments to see if it is going to be possible. Otherwise I will have to introduce another method of reversing direction to get a reasonable run.
Engines and rolling stock. I have an amount of Decauville literature and designs. I have some 0-4-0 chassis which would be suitable, plus an 0-6-0 and a tram chassis. I have some short wheelbase industrial trucks and want to make some unusual wagons which I have prototypes for.

My first proposal was a walled town at one end of the shelf and a rural depot at the other, the railway mainly running wine and fresh produce into the town. Rural passenger traffic is an additional income but not primary. However, I realised that adding a small industry like a pottery would add interest, but found myself asking - where's the punk?

I need to choose a stronger steampunk theme to base my backstory on. I have come from a position with that first proposal, where I had an historic location, peopled by steampunk characters (and a steam motorcycle combination!) but I feel the need to move into a true steampunk location.

Question is, what does a steampunk location look like? What sort of things would happen there? There have already been a number of narrow gauge layouts of a Cavorite Mine and somewhere I remember seeing a layout with a Nemo style submarine depot, the NG train providing engineering support, similar to some of the larger U-Boat and Soviet submarine pens. One idea I had was for an estate railway based around Torchwood House - do you have any other ideas for an imaginative and potentially steampunk location / industry / activity that will help nudge my imagination and stir up some inspiration? Please??  Undecided

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George Salt
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2012, 10:02:57 pm »

For interesting railway layouts for very small areas, have a look at the website built by the late Carl Arendt - Micro-small layouts.  The timesaver layout is a fun puzzle, the inglenook is simple but still a challenge if you get the headshunt and sidings just the right length.

The Fleischman Magic Train locos and rolling stock are near enough 1:35 to not need much more than cosmetic additions.

For steampunk model railway inspiration, have a look at the large scale work by Chris Walas, and he's also done some smaller-scale layouts with a steampunk-ish theme (I think this one is the Nemo one you remember).  There was always a lot of interest in unusual prototypes on the Gn15 forum.

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Capt James Salt
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 12:16:19 am »


I'm sure there is a way to have a train go in one direction and when it gets to the end it reverses itself.  Have an engine on both ends of the train.

Once you get your vision you should be able to come up with plenty of ideas.  By vision I mean overall theme. 
Like a factory at one end (making robots) and a town at the other end (full of robots).  And the train delivering robots to the town.

How about an mining operation at one end and a train delivering ore to and industrial plant at the other end.



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PatronZero
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 03:53:14 am »

Polite question or two if I may ?

Are you strictly limited to the dimensions stated of a long narrow rectangle or might I suggest an option perhaps unseen or as yet considered ?

If you are assembling a limited space display could you do such by incorporating your layout inside a piece of furniture such as an end table, coffee table or perhaps a bar globe ?

My step-father has his 'permanent' display layout inset into a large round dining table, he lowered the support pedestal to allow for a 'thickening' of the table structure in which he housed said item.

His planning did let the table serve it's primary function and recover 'lost' space to create a display case of sorts for his running trains in a compact but nicely presented setting.

That line of thinking could easily be applied to other furniture with little to no serious modification but immense payback of the cleverly fitted layout.

Best of luck with the project !

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Antipodean
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 09:18:43 am »

If it is on a shelf it could be possible to hinge it so it closes against the wall giving you more realestate to play with. That way it closes out of sight and does not collect dust.

Theme: Coal mine supplying coal to a steel mill that in turn manufactures the steel into zeppelins.
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 02:49:36 pm »

Thank you one and all - I did try a post last night but it does not seem to have taken (may appear elsewhere on the board - I sometimes have more than two threads open at a time - that will confuse someone...)

George - indeed I have studied Carl's excellent site and the Gnatterbox too! They were what led me into this madness and encouraged the folly of scratch building a complete layout. My first attempt at a design followed much of what I had learned on Carl's site and consisted of three micros joined together - an inglenook, a variation of a Gumstump and Snowshoe and a small suburban terminus - shame it doesn't quite work! I really like the whimsical nature of Woody Greene's 'Mogollon Railway' over on Freerails. He is an amazing modeller and incredibly productive but does not pander to the rivet counters. NGRM also has some great threads, and I like Daniel Caso's stuff - he is also on the Yahoo 32n2 group.

Capt.Salt - yes, it's the theme I am after. The many excellent model railway forums have provided loads of ideas, including how to reverse operation, its just that a loop back means you just drive around with no input - it more or less doubles the length! A turntable would be one idea maybe coupled to a runaround loop via a switch or a sector plate. But it is the 'theme' that I am struggling over...

PatronZero - I am rather limited to this size - it was what I built to so I kind of gave myself the limit. The shelf overhangs the bookcases front and back as it is. I can extend through a wooden partition into a cupboard on one end, but that would only allow me to put some kind of sector plate / casette system inside. I like the sound of your step-father's layout and I suppose to an extent my proposal is built into a piece of furniture - the book case.

PatronZero and Antipodean - You have reminded me that, in my ignorance I have overlooked the dust problem (and the risk of stuff falling on the layout from the overhead shelves...)
However - you have got me to thinking. The fact that the shelf overlaps at the back means there is a slot between the back of the bookcases and the wall ~ about 2 inches. Now that could be increased to about 4" without too much of a problem. Now, say I fitted another baseboard, say 8' by 1', that slid down the back of the bookcases. This would allow the following possibility. The main baseboard with all the scenery, buildings, backscene and operational layout, slides forwards into the room, 1 foot. The auxiliary baseboard - the 8 x 1, lifts up vertically out of the back on slides and as the bottom edge comes level with the main baseboard, it hinges forwards. This board would contain the back half of a complete round and round layout hidden behind the backscene! I may have to draw it out to fully explain! So the layout could operate as a shunting layout whilst folded away and a round and round when extended. Thank you for making me think a bit laterally (and for the good luck!)

So, themes so far suggested:
A mining operation - coal mine delivering to a smelter, ore mine delivering to an industrial plant, Cavorite mine delivering to a laboratory;
A manufacturing plant - robots coming off the production line being delivered to a town full of robots;
A submarine depot - all Captain Nemo and infernal devices;
A rural town - kind of a Belle Epoque Mogollon (although that has a mine and a smelter, but it is biiiig!)
An estate railway - possibly based on Torchwood House (although 60cms / 2' is a bit 'main line' for estate railways!)

An idea I had in the wee small hours was a behind the scenes view of an alternative history Worlds Fair, based loosely on the 1889 Exposition Universelle but in a steampunk dimension? Still have to think about that.

Please keep the ideas coming, these posts have already kicked the creative juices into action. Thank you!
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A. Pettyengineer
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 04:11:18 pm »

Well 2 ponds away and 1/2 a world.
My On30 Turned into Gn15 (ya get to count the rivets better)
I will never do this so here is another idea.
Zeppelin in construction at 1 end in cutout shed (helps with a dust cover) train hauling parts from factory other (again cutout not as big) (but smoke stacks get to hold dust cover).
trick
Train leaves factory with a wagon or two with aluminium parts moves over to construction site where two things happen as it goes behind a screen, 1 it hits a switch/beam that reverses it after some time but also 2 at same time an arm moves the load down below sides of wagons, the same sort of arm lifts the load above the side at the other end, therefore you get a 2 way action over a length of time.
other working stuff can be created at either end , say a crane in the hanger starts to lift a fake load when the train arrives (this is an endless loop that moves up into the zeppelin then behind the air bags (deflated) and back under and up (I did work out a return of a 2nd crane wire returning empty) an the same sort of thing at the other end to load the train except at this end you have about 3 sets of men on a staggered loop carrying the alloy onto the train (not worked out as would need a mirror or forced perspective)
Also there could be 2 tracks through the center section of the track so the train goes 1 side of something in the middle then front side on the way back (just twin track and points to a single end at both ends.
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George Salt
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 05:34:08 pm »

You should be able to get a Gumstump and Snowshoe into that space - perversely it would be easier in Gn15 than On30.  It's a handy layout for combining two motifs at two different levels.  A vertical sector plate can reduce the space the gradient requirements - or use an old Fleischman rack power unit and make the incline racked and you can go ridiculously steep with that gradient.

I think that Jaxcilli Industries would be an excellent choice for a mining layout, but you're going to be very tight on the radii of the loops, and again the larger scale on the same gauge would make things easier to pull off.  There's enough operating fun to make it more than just a pretty layout that tires you quickly.

An alternative motif from my own sketchbooks.. Lord Belborough's railway on his estate at Chigley, he also had the pumping engine and was a balloonist.. now there's a character ripe for a touch of steampunk.  Just add a touch of Sir Arthur Heywood and convert the whole to 15" gauge for Gn15.
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Capt James Salt
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 02:52:23 am »


Here's another idea for you:

A circus train.  A steampunk circus train. 
With steampunk animals.  And steampunk clowns.  And a steampunk circus. 
Do a Google image search for all of these items.

Maybe you could have steampunk animals on flat cars without cages.  Because after all, they are mechanical.

Circus Train   http://youtu.be/5ozY1S-4LoY


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Capt James Salt
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 03:02:55 am »


A steampunk train must travel by the steampunk circus,

that has a steampunk carousel:    http://youtu.be/ucOst8uXX5w


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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 11:19:40 am »

If you just heard something, it was probably my jaw hitting the table at the sight of those carousels! These latest suggestions include a very important point. Layouts should also include dynamic interest of themselves, otherwise the trains seem to just operate in an otherwise static environment. It is the little dioramas that lift the mundane to the spectacular. So, it must include twinkly lights, enough figures to create little scenes of drama, comedy, industry etc., and some basic inherent function - like the carousel, the Zeppelin Works cranes, the chute operations in the Jaxcilli Industry, estate pumping engines and animal automata. I chose 1/35 ~ 1/36 to allow me to do stuff like this but the more I look at it, items like the estate railway, the carousel and the robot circus train do lend themselves more to Gn15. The only thing I would have obtained that would not be useable are the figures and I would be faced with scratch building the Gn15 figs (I know they are made but too pricey for me and I am not a great fan of the 'characterful' look of most of them).

So, add to the list:
Circus train with carousel and animal automata;
Industrial scene with working machines and cranes;
Add pumping engine / electricity generator to the estate railway.

Thanks - keep it flowing...
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Capt James Salt
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 09:31:32 pm »


I appreciate your interest in mine and others ideas.  I could add ideas to your list all day long.

However, what happens when you have 20, 30 or 100 ideas ?

Usually when I come up with an idea, if it trips my trigger, then I know it's the idea that I want to go with.
If I think the idea will hold my interest and I will be able to stay focused on the idea long enough to finish the project, then I know my trigger has been tripped.

How will you know you have found the theme you will go with ?

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Capt James Salt
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 09:46:56 pm »



Here's another idea:

A steampunk military train.  Carrying WWI vehicles and tanks.  Traveling to a bombed out, war torn city. 
Traveling from a WWI trench warfare scene.

There is a lot of military stuff available in 1/35th scale.





 
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Angus A Fitziron
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Research Air Ship R.A.S. 'Saorsa'


« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 10:32:53 pm »


How will you know you have found the theme you will go with ?


Excellent question and quite insightful!

I think there are two reasons I have adopted this approach - I am not a great fan of the "I want to do x but I don't have any ideas, can you help me?" so to so do is a bit of a new experience for me!

Reason 1 - I am not a great finisher. I don't see me changing the habit of a lifetime so the theme has to really interest me and should have enough space to allow me to add to it, almost indefinitely - or at least until I get fed up with it. At the same time, it must have play value at quite an early stage of build.

Reason 2 - most of my life I have collaborated in practically everything I have done, most people see me as a team player. Yet, I don't see me joining the local model engineering club. They seem very serious about accurate modelling of mainline prototypes, so my interest in  anachronistic, quasi Victorian, fantasy narrow gauge is unlikely to generate much interest or support. In fact it seems quite pointed that all parts I need to buy from the local model shop have to be ordered in and once they found out what this strange project was, I thought it significant that at no time was it suggested I might like to join the local club! So, this phase of the thread is my attempt at collaboration. Your ideas spark developments of my own - it is not just the ideas for a theme but the establishment of what the criteria are for coming to an answer to your question.

Like you, when I see it, it will trip my trigger. In the mean time, the discussion helps me establish a work list for things to evaluate - for example the idea of an expansion board to provide round and round operation, creating a set of criteria that must be met and a wish list of what the layout will include - and also allows me to have the big conversations (even if it is with myself!) That is, how can I start and make as sure as I can that I won't get halfway through and realise I have painted myself into a corner. For example, revisiting the debate on scale - Gn15 or 36n2?; OO gauge (16.5mm) or N gauge (9mm) - though I am convinced my ageing eyesight and impending arthritus have conclusively answered that one!

I don't think that answers your question Capt. but I hope it explains how it might be answered.



Here's another idea:

A steampunk military train.  Carrying WWI vehicles and tanks.  Traveling to a bombed out, war torn city. 
Traveling from a WWI trench warfare scene.

There is a lot of military stuff available in 1/35th scale.


Yes, it is no coincidence I have at least 3 motorcycle combinations and a Rolls Royce armoured car in the scale...

I don't tend towards the dystopian side of steampunk but I do see as a possibility, an as yet undamaged town full of celebrating men and women, both military and civilian. There would also be a space for a small funfair including a carousel! This would allow in future the use of 60cm military railway stock. There are quite a few already building trench warfare narrow gauge and I think it might be difficult to have a clear steampunk distinctive from Great War historical or Dieselpunk. But it does let me use the Roller!

Cheers!
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George Salt
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 10:42:31 pm »

Regardless of theme.. I would suggest ditching the 7" radius loop unless you're upping scale to Gn15.  A turn that tight will be hard on anything other than the shortest wheelbase stock and coupling could be awkward.  It will also look very odd in smaller scales unless you conceal it in a structure or within the scenery.
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2012, 11:12:44 pm »

Thanks George - coming to the same conclusion myself. I am persevering by easing the track as far as I can because it does seem to work most of the way round - it's just a few hard spots at the moment. The loop is concealed beneath street level, ie it is one of those 'disappear from one place and appear at another' schemes! Plan B at the moment is a shunting layout with a round and round loop built into an extension. But we'll see - building weather is still too good to shut myself in the work room.

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von Corax
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2012, 12:25:31 am »

If you fancy extending the carnival/circus theme a bit, I recall reading many years ago about a layout that had been "lightscaped" (for want of a better word); the sky would gradually darken through the colours of sunset, and then a fireworks display would begin just behind the hills.

The "sunset" was accomplished by a combination of downlighting and uplighting the backdrop with something similar to theatrical cyclorama lights. (I don't recall how the dimmers were controlled, as this was long before the Rise of Arduino.) The "fireworks" came from a tufted bundle of optical fibre which rose on an arm from behind the scenery (hidden by the darkness of "night") and then was lit through a colour wheel hidden below the table.
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PatronZero
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 05:30:57 am »

I do have a question if I may ?

Would it be possible to have a 'vertical' roundhouse-turnabout at the far ends of your layout's horizontal span ?

Simply put, could you 'engineer' a sort of Ferris wheel-spoke assembly that would allow one to load various different short trains or 'flip-over' the mainline traveler in such an arrangement.

Think of this as a 'siding' that the a train would 'shuttle' off the main line, a section of the track actually moving to the side, then either going for a short rotation for a turnaround or loading up an entirely new train.

Happy to send a few sketches if need-be, as I tend to think sometimes in most radical applications of alternative solutions to practical problems.

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Angus A Fitziron
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Research Air Ship R.A.S. 'Saorsa'


« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 09:39:17 am »

Hmmm... something like this?



It would make an interesting fiddle yard - maybe with three arms instead of two. But what is its purpose (apart from just being awesome)?
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George Salt
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 10:06:50 am »

Is awesome not reason enough?  Cheesy
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PatronZero
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2012, 08:46:45 pm »

Hmmm... something like .....? 

Yes and no, I'm picturing something more where the siding is perpendicular to the center axle rather than parallel, best to picture a film reel for the rough shape-proportions.  Hard to describe but the short trains resting in the 'spokes' for storage and 'delivery'.  Given space to do such, the revolver-cylinder method would be very attractive visually.

That said, not intending such as a bit of track scenery but more a mechanical means to swap out trains on the long line and 'turnabout'  such in general.
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George Salt
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2012, 09:10:50 pm »

Hmmm... something like .....?  

Yes and no, I'm picturing something more where the siding is perpendicular to the center axle rather than parallel, best to picture a film reel for the rough shape-proportions.  Hard to describe but the short trains resting in the 'spokes' for storage and 'delivery'.  Given space to do such, the revolver-cylinder method would be very attractive visually.

That said, not intending such as a bit of track scenery but more a mechanical means to swap out trains on the long line and 'turnabout'  such in general.

I think I get what you're describing, a multi-track sector plate.  The problem then is that you lose clearance between the tracks as you approach the pivot and the length of dead-space at the end of the layout is increased.  A multitrack traverser is a more efficient use of space, and can use headshunts beyond the traverser to runaround a train in the fiddle yard.


I've been racking my brains trying to remember a layout I've seen many years ago that I think is potential inspiration for a SP-themed layout - although it would need hamming up a bit with big moving gears, a beam engine, etc.  It's called Sutton Wharf and was built by Christopher Payne.

I think Airfix used to to a range of industrial engines (beam engine, mill engine, etc) that could be kitbashed for the theme.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:44:13 am by George Salt » Logged
Angus A Fitziron
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Research Air Ship R.A.S. 'Saorsa'


« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2012, 10:23:21 pm »

Oh yes, Christopher Payne - I've seen his Paradise Mining Co and St.Pierre and they have both been inspiring but for different reasons. I can't seem to find any photos of the layout - usual search technique coming up blank, maybe my Google-Fu is weak tonight! Most of his layouts have been photographed by Jacky Molinaro but I can't seem to make the link work...

The Airfix beam engine comes available now and again, but I am resisting the temptation to buy any more kits until I know where this project is going. In any case, as the descendant of one of the originators of said machine I ought to be able to build one from scratch!

Thanks for the input - all helpful.

 
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Antipodean
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2012, 01:44:38 am »

As Monty Python would say "Now for something completely different"
How about a vertical lay out!
A working mine with a working mine shaft that goes down to the mine tunnel/s - complete with mine trucks etc.
This gives you different levels of mine that you could model with a different theme on each level (Mad Henchmans Lair)
This could all be placed in a Victorian style cabinet with a glass front (No dust) as a working diorama. This also gives you hidden areas between the tunnels levels where you could hide motors etc to animate the scene.

This could also lend itself to a zigzag rainway to bring the trucks up to the surface. Lots of operating!

I like this idea - I might just do this myself.

I have a working model of the HMS Bounty that I am planning on assembling once I retire. I am planning on on having the closed side tied up to a dock with the dock and buildings model to suit the period. I am (slowly) researching where she would have been tied up and looking for drawings etc of the docks for realism. The whole assembly will be placed in a glass cabinet (4 sided) with draws underneath containing information on the Bounty and other historical aspects (Knots etc).
I am planning on building the cabinet myself by taking turning and woodworking classes or finding a makerspace somewhere. It will be a large piece of work.
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2012, 08:48:36 am »

Antipodean, that would be different! Last year, there was a competition at ExpoNG for a layout in a boxfile and a couple of those were vertical but based on funicular railways. I had thought about one based on the Suchard chocolate factory railway. Seems like someone at GnATTERbox has had the same idea!



The closest I have come to a vertical railway though is a thought about a 009 layout under water in plastic tubing at the bottom of an aquarium. The vertical bit would be a tube ~ probably box section ~ so that stock could be raised and lowered onto the track. Very Nemo-ish but I decided I needed to know a lot more about operation and avoiding de-railing before I committed a layout to several gallons of fishy water!

The Bounty sounds interesting. You don't say but it sounds like it might be a cut-away model which I think would make a very interesting display and will keep you occupied after the mine diorama!

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