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Author Topic: Information Needed, Help?  (Read 9393 times)
Captain Shipton Bellinger
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Why the goggles..? In case of ADVENTURE!


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« on: June 01, 2012, 06:53:59 am »

I have recently acquired a rather nice pocket watch…



…and I'm looking for information.

The only real clue to the watchmaker is a tiny mark between the '17 JEWELS' and the winding click stop, just visible in the photograph. When examined through a loupe this resolves as a banner bearing the word 'DREADNOUGHT' over what seems to be a lion rampant in a circle.

From my researches I suspect that the movement is a Record 'Dreadnought', but I am unable to confirm this. The only pictures I have been able to find show only the face, which is no help as the dial on this watch is completely unsigned.

It looks to me as if the winding wheel has at some stage been replaced with an inferior, plain, part—I'd guess that the original bore the watchmaker's name.

After a little work she's running very strongly, and is (so far) accurate to within a few seconds per day.

I am also unable to find much meaningful information on the Record Watch Company. Some sources say it was formed in 1905, some say 1910; all say that it was acquired by Longines in the 1960s, and that's about the limit of what I can find.

So, can anyone either confirm its identity as a Record Dreadnought, or provide a better identification?

Further information on the Record Watch Company would also be appreciated.

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Capt. Shipton Bellinger R.A.M.E. (rtd)

Captain Shipton Bellinger
Master Tinkerer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Why the goggles..? In case of ADVENTURE!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 09:55:36 am »

>Bump<

Nearly a week and no comment—not even from Harold or Abslomrob?

 Cry

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Darkhound
Zeppelin Admiral
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United States United States


« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 05:32:29 am »

I tried, but other than the facts you already know, there isn't much to say. "Dreadnought" was used from 1916 until after the company was bought by Longines. Their original product was a fascinating jump back sector watch in a triangular case, which this obviously isn't/ but the sector types watches were a short lived fad and Record only made them for a couple of years. The company was registered in Geneva in 1905. That's all I have.

I would suggest just enjoying a nice watch. That much I can identify from the photos!
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"Stupidity is a curse with which even the Gods struggle in vain. Ignorance we can fix."
Darkhound
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United States United States


« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 05:33:28 am »

I tried, but other than the facts you already know, there isn't much to say. "Dreadnought" was used from 1916 until after the company was bought by Longines. Their original product was a fascinating jump back sector watch in a triangular case, which this obviously isn't, but the sector types watches were a short lived fad and Record only made them for a couple of years. The company was registered in Geneva in 1905. That's all I have.

I would suggest just enjoying a nice watch. That much I can identify from the photos!
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Malikon
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 06:24:34 am »

that's very cool looking. Congrats.
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Captain Shipton Bellinger
Master Tinkerer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Why the goggles..? In case of ADVENTURE!


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 07:00:12 am »

Thank you.

It's still awaiting me getting around to reparing a slight chip in the dial enamel, but other than that is a rather nice addition to the collection. I'm still trying to positively identify the watch and find more about Record, but not holding my breath.

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Abslomrob
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 02:20:24 am »

Well, here's some information on Record (the company) from one the best sources of mechanical watch information on the internet: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Record_000

It can be hard to find detailed information on swiss watches from before the 30's; the industry was still pretty fragmented and recovering from the fact that the American companies crushed them in the late 1800's.  Most of the watches being built (like this one) were based on a number of basic watch designs; this one looks like a classic FHF movement.  If you look carefully, you may find a caliber number stamped on the plates under the gears somewhere; for record, it'll probably be a two digit number.

The quality of your watch is very high, btw.  The geneva striping on the top plates and the perlage on the pillar plate, along with the full jeweling and micro-regulator all add up to a very nice piece that should be fairly easy to restore to it's former accuracy. 
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All my vintages are at http://www.abslomrob.com
Captain Shipton Bellinger
Master Tinkerer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Why the goggles..? In case of ADVENTURE!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 11:22:49 am »

Well, here's some information on Record (the company) from one the best sources of mechanical watch information on the internet: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Record_000

Thanks for that: a new source of information for me to explore.  Smiley

Quote
… Most of the watches being built (like this one) were based on a number of basic watch designs; this one looks like a classic FHF movement.

Hmmm… I'm not sure about it being an FHF movement. They seem to have favoured a single plate for the 4th and 3rd wheel pivots, but I'll keep looking to find a match.

Quote
If you look carefully, you may find a caliber number stamped on the plates under the gears somewhere; for record, it'll probably be a two digit number.

I didn't notice any markings, but I was concentrating on getting it running and not buggering things up at the time. I'll have a look next time it's strpped down.

Quote
The quality of your watch is very high, btw.  The geneva striping on the top plates and the perlage on the pillar plate, along with the full jeweling and micro-regulator all add up to a very nice piece that should be fairly easy to restore to it's former accuracy.

I have to say I'm quite pleased with its accuracy; currently running at ~+/- 10sec/per day, although I haven't carried out any week-long 'in the pocket' tests yet.

Hopefully I'll have the time in the near future to do a thorough clean and refurbishment, rather than the rescue maintenance that it's had so far. I think I may also start looking for a new dial that's in in better condition than the one currently fitted.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 11:24:55 am by Captain Shipton Bellinger » Logged
Abslomrob
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 07:30:52 pm »

There's one shown here, about mid-way down.  Wish I could get a copy of his reference books...sigh:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/caliber-430721.html
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Captain Shipton Bellinger
Master Tinkerer
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United Kingdom United Kingdom

Why the goggles..? In case of ADVENTURE!


WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 08:43:08 am »

Thanks for the help yet again, but although they are roughly similar in appearance I have a couple of observations that makes me doubt the relationshionship:

1. At 9.75 lignes that's almost certainly a wrist watch rather than a pocket watch.

2. The winding wheel is on the wrong side of the crown wheel.

I agree with you about his reference works though.

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Abslomrob
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 05:38:58 pm »

Oh wasn't suggesting it was a picture of this movement, just noting that there were some native FHF designs that put the center and third wheel on the same bridge.  Not that it's all that relevant anyway; bridge modifications were almost to be expected when companies were setting up their own watch models.  As for the location of the crown wheel; that's just because yours is a lepine (open face) style, not hunter.
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