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Author Topic: Steamy Steampunk Buildings  (Read 92303 times)
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #975 on: November 22, 2018, 09:20:28 pm »

Well, clearly not enough powers and not the will to change them.
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Steampunk Widgets and Icons of Some Worldwide Repute
Banfili
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« Reply #976 on: November 23, 2018, 05:43:07 am »

In the city where I grew up there was a bluestone cold store, with the highest level of state protection available. It was demolished over a long weekend, when there wasn't anyone around to do anything to stop the demolition. The fine for so demolishing was pitiful!
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #977 on: November 23, 2018, 10:15:44 am »

In the city where I grew up there was a bluestone cold store, with the highest level of state protection available. It was demolished over a long weekend, when there wasn't anyone around to do anything to stop the demolition. The fine for so demolishing was pitiful!

The willpower to protect these buildings is not there in Australia, not enough of you care about your past. There are many that simply do not care and think it can be safely swept away and replaced by more modern buildings assuming modern is better but knowing it will make them more money. Simply, put the community will is NOT there.

It is up to you to change that, you and others like you getting together and insisting the rules are changed. That is the first expression of the will to fix these things.
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morozow
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« Reply #978 on: November 23, 2018, 10:25:49 am »

I understand you. We have the same thing - money to kill the story.
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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
Sorontar
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« Reply #979 on: November 23, 2018, 10:36:42 am »

Australia's problem is recognising what needs to be retained. We only have about 220 years of European settlement. Prior to that, there is little understood recorded history. Knowing which 30-50 year old building needs to be treasured, or which trees may be indigenously significant, is not something that every land owner thinks about unfortunately. Regardless of what the laws may say, things slip through either due to naivety, neglect or nastiness.

That said, there are some great Victorian-era landmarks that we have saved.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #980 on: November 26, 2018, 11:15:36 am »

Where there's a will, there's a way. The results are surprising when the community cares to preserve.

There's a small city called Cuernavaca about 1,5 hrs by car from Mexico City, a winter/summertime resort since Aztec times for wealthy dwellers in the big city. The attraction of the small city is it's lower altitude and much warmer tropical-like climate compared to the big city. Among the summer homes of the wealthy and the quaint small-town colonial architecture you will find this building: Hernan Cortez' vacation home! If you remember, Hernan Cortez was the Spanish Conquistador who brought down the Aztec Empire when he conquered Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) in 1521. This house was built in 1526, just 5 years after the Conquest. It has been occupied continuously ever since,

Hernan Cortez' vacation home in Cuernavaca, Mexico (1526)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Cort%C3%A9s,_Cuernavaca

Quote
As Cortés’s residence, it reached its height in the 1530s, but the family eventually abandoned it due to on-going legal troubles. In the 18th century, colonial authorities had the structure renovated and used it as a barracks and jail. During the Mexican War of Independence, it held prisoners such as José María Morelos y Pavón. After the war, it became the seat of government for the state of Morelos until the late 20th century, when the state government moved out and the structure was renovated and converted into the current Museo Regional Cuauhnahuac, or regional museum, with exhibits on the history of Morelos.

This structure is famous for being the oldest standing private (non government) property in the Americas. Also it suffers from the infamy of probably being the first house ever to be foreclosed in the Americas (!) I guess even if you are a Conquistador you can have your property taken by the bank...

« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 11:27:04 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #981 on: November 26, 2018, 03:28:18 pm »



 Mr Wilhelm. That is a very intriguing piece of history.   The building is almost medieval.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #982 on: November 27, 2018, 02:06:32 am »

Mr Wilhelm. That is a very intriguing piece of history.   The building is almost medieval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it missed being mediaeval by just 34 years... Many historians mark the end of the Mediaeval Period as 1492. The Spanish conquerors WERE essentially mediaeval people. And they brought with them Mediaeval foods as well, part of which, mixed with the Native is Mexican cuisine and culture.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #983 on: November 27, 2018, 06:28:20 pm »

Mr Wilhelm. That is a very intriguing piece of history.   The building is almost medieval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it missed being mediaeval by just 34 years... Many historians mark the end of the Mediaeval Period as 1492. The Spanish conquerors WERE essentially mediaeval people. And they brought with them Mediaeval foods as well, part of which, mixed with the Native is Mexican cuisine and culture.

 A Mexican culture and cuisine that went global immediately  and  has remained popular.  Which begs the question  - Did Native  Central Americans bring civilisation and modernisation to the Western world?
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RJBowman
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« Reply #984 on: November 27, 2018, 09:16:46 pm »

Mr Wilhelm. That is a very intriguing piece of history.   The building is almost medieval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it missed being mediaeval by just 34 years... Many historians mark the end of the Mediaeval Period as 1492. The Spanish conquerors WERE essentially mediaeval people. And they brought with them Mediaeval foods as well, part of which, mixed with the Native is Mexican cuisine and culture.

 A Mexican culture and cuisine that went global immediately  and  has remained popular.  Which begs the question  - Did Native  Central Americans bring civilisation and modernisation to the Western world?

Civilization was brought to the Western world by the Romans, then it went dormant for several centuries. Modernism was created by the West when they adopted all of the best things from all of the other cultures that they traded with and developed a new culture of trade, technology, literacy, and refinement. And who was the founder of Modern Civilization? Marco Polo.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #985 on: November 27, 2018, 11:18:15 pm »

Mr Wilhelm. That is a very intriguing piece of history.   The building is almost medieval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it missed being mediaeval by just 34 years... Many historians mark the end of the Mediaeval Period as 1492. The Spanish conquerors WERE essentially mediaeval people. And they brought with them Mediaeval foods as well, part of which, mixed with the Native is Mexican cuisine and culture.

 A Mexican culture and cuisine that went global immediately  and  has remained popular.  Which begs the question  - Did Native  Central Americans bring civilisation and modernisation to the Western world?

Civilisation is a mixed bag. I think that a better explanation is that the clash of cultures is responsible for civilisation.

If you look at Native America, it had remained stuck in the Bronze age for a very long time, while Eurasia flew past that stage many centuries earlier, ie China. Arguably, in North America (US and Canada, outside of Mesoamerica) people were still stuck in the stone age while Mesoamerica and the Inca were far more advanced. So progress is not a straight line. Simultaneously, the Native in Mesoamerica managed to bring about three critical developments entirely on their own - no help from the outside - and ON TIME compared to the rest of the world: 1) Hybrid writing system including syllabic and logographic alphabet 2) Number system. 3) Mathematical arithmetic including concept of zero. Controversially, there is some recent archaelogical finding that the Mayan Zero and number system predate the Indian numerical system including the concept of zero - but the Europeans got the Indian version first and the Roman/Greek alphabets first and only understood the Mayan alphabet and number system centuries later.

But the clash of culture is critical for advancement. Otherwise, like the Mayan alphabet it can be lost and forgotten in a jungle somewhere for centuries, not advancing anyone's culture. Warfare. Conquest. Assimilation. These are the tools of progress. The Indian number system made it to Spain by way of conflict with the Caliphates. Then during the time of the Conquest, the Spanish and the Portuguese in their race to connect East and West were literally splitting the world in half with the blessing of the Church (Treaty of Tordesillas, 1494 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas). They were the superpowers of the time. And there was one critical aspect of the Iberian Perninsula that subsequent empires lacked:

The Spanish Empire was far more illuminated than the British Empire centuries later in the sense the Spanish Crown was pushing for complete assimilation, perhaps not for the entire Spanish Empire, but at least for the American territories. Famously, Queen Isabella of Castile, upon being informed that they had stumbled on millions of inhabitants in the Americas, became tremendously flustered and asked the question: "What am I to consider these people, my slaves or my vassals?" This set the tone for the Spanish Empire. Along with blending of colour of skin came blending of culture, and a lot came from that mix, including food. I think we all know from history that the Spanish penchant for cultural assimilation was a learned behaviour from the Spanish Caliphates, combining Moorish and Jewish culture (including the mathematics we use today, like Algebra), even if they ended up kicking the Moors and Jewish off the Iberian Peninsula.

But what is less talked about is that the Mediaeval Spanish kings, Isabel and Ferdinand and all other thereafter in the Habsburg lineage) - who were Germanic kings by definition - first inherited the philosophy of ethnic assimilation from the ancient Spanish Visigoth kings. Only the Visigoths understood that racial isolation was a destabilising force in a kingdom, and that assimilation was necessary, and that, believe it or not, is the source of the racial and cultural miscegination in Spanish America. The Visigoths, as almost any other German tribe that touched Spain, like the Vandals and Suebi, were trying to appropriate the greatness of Rome - literally claim it as their own (cultural appropriation by definition). All the German tribes in Europe took over the remains of Rome little by little and claimed themselves the rulers of the Roman-Celtic people all over Europe. The trick is how you go about - as a pagan or quasi-Christian minority - conquring a majority of well educated Christians. The Visgoths decided to integrate with the locals (I forget which specific king/chieftain came to that conclusion - if any Germanophiles here know the answer to that, feel free to chime in).

Note that even the Rune alphabet of the ancient Germans was of latin origin!! It was based on the Latin alphabet! The reason the Germans learned how to read and write was due to conflict with Rome!!! At what developmental level were the Germans around 1 AD, would you say? Compare that to Native America. The legacy of Rome was appropriated in the Holy Roman Empire, which as you heard in school many times, was neither holy nor Roman! So what happened?  Conflict. Conflict happened. The Germans advanced through conflict and took over a continent. Their wanderlust then took them to the Americas (starting with the Scandinavian Leif Ericksson!) Conflict and conquest spreads culture. Today even Mexicans have a bit of German in them, by way of the Ancient Visigoth Spanish kings, and later the Hapbsburg kings, later by direct immigration in the 19th. C (confirmed by genetic studies, even if that makes Donald Trump cringe  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy )

I think Westerners today will very reluctantly admit the Native influence - assuming they're educated enough to know the historical details. But either way even the Mexican themselves, like the ancient German tribes fighting Rome, needed to be found, conquer territories or be conquered, for them to not remain stuck in the stone age.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 12:21:15 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #986 on: November 28, 2018, 03:06:38 am »



Those are strong points to ponder Mr Wilhelm. It has certainly given me something to think about.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #987 on: November 28, 2018, 10:52:44 am »



Those are strong points to ponder Mr Wilhelm. It has certainly given me something to think about.

History is fun. I find myself musing much about it. Now that it seems the US is splitting at the seams I find myself very much thinking about the difference between Spanish America vs. British America... BTW I found the name of the Visigoth King with the spark of wisdom (not that anyone cares in this thread, but his vision had profound consequences for the world): Reccared I* a/k/a Balthes, King of Hispania (559 AD-609 AD - far right in picture below)


* Son of Liuvigild and brother of Hermenegild, Married to Bada, father to Suintila and Liuva Cheesy They all had funky names back then.
From Wiki:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 11:32:17 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #988 on: November 29, 2018, 04:31:29 pm »



 I feel a mini series in the grand style coming on...  They must have led colourful lives and had dramatic battles. Religion, fighting, intrigue and  scandalous behaviours.

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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #989 on: November 29, 2018, 09:51:17 pm »

I feel a mini series in the grand style coming on...  They must have led colourful lives and had dramatic battles. Religion, fighting, intrigue and  scandalous behaviours.

I'm sure they did. The world of Germans, Celts and Moorish Caliphates between 700 AD and 1491 was very similar, and I'm guessing a good inspiration for the poeples in Game of Thrones and JRR Tolikien's Lord of the Rings.

But back to architecture... Our friends @KineticKennons are now in Mexico's second most important silver mining town, Taxco de Alarcon a/k/a Taxco (pronounced "Tasco"), in the State of Guerrero ("Warrior")... Not steampunk, perhaps more Fantasy, but the Spanish version of the Native community (an Aztec principality in 1445) was  founded in 1528. Probably the hilly-est town anywhere in the world, the altitude of the city streets varies between 5666 ft and 6335 ft of altitude above sea level. It was the second most important silver mining town in the New Spain, and it still is a mining town and silversmithing centre today.









The young couple from Dallas had previosuly visited the State of Puebla, and climbed one of three volcanoes (Popocatepetl, Iztlaciahuatl, and Nevado de Toluca), at hights nearing 15000 ft (starting point at which you already need supplemental oxygen), near the City of Puebla and Mexico City (these volcanoes surround the giant "Valley of Mexico", (For Americans, this is roughly equal politically and geographically to the States of Virginia and Maryland around Washington DC):


Nevado de Toluca, a dormant volcano, at roughly 12000 ft altitude (peak around 15000 ft)
Near the City of Toluca and Mexico City











High Fantasy indeed  Cheesy New Zealand: You're not the only Fantasy spot   Wink  We can do a miniseries here too
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 10:19:41 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #990 on: November 30, 2018, 03:09:48 am »

Fantasy UK here - but with buildings.


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Loch Awe 26 miles long, near my house...


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« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 03:19:41 am by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #991 on: November 30, 2018, 05:50:14 am »



.. Mr Wilhelm and Uncle Bert... Them fighting words...  sadly there is not much to fight back with. Lord help us if the best we can do is horrible hobbits and  their   hideous hovels in hobbiton. Oh and the fake Japanese  village on the foot hills of a volcano, waiting dormant for the tiny Tom Cruise to return.

 Here are a few other NZ  film locations with a more steam related potential

 From the Frighteners


 The Piano  [setting up with your furniture] on the beach







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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #992 on: November 30, 2018, 11:33:24 am »

I think you need 'real' buildings rather than just film prop facades to enter the race. This is a house I used to pass daily, this is just a Google Maps photo - apologies as I am currently 150 miles away and my tele-photo zoom isn't man enough.

This house is sufficiently spooky as you pass it at night and it is 'real'.



New Zealand's problem is - not enough castles. You need to get building.

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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #993 on: November 30, 2018, 11:50:54 am »

Next door to that house is another that has fallen on harder times but has recently been restored, this shows you what can be done with the will, if you have it.



This is the old house from the rear, fully restored. The protruding annexe and the building to the right of the second main vertical facade is all new. There was a greenhouse there before.


This is the front elevation - all new.

The new street elevation replaces a flat-roof 'modern' addition that was built by idiots in the age when people thought 20th Century Germanic box style buildings looked good. Those have now been demolished and a new facade that matches the rest of the street has been constructed from traditional materials.

If you want to have a look at the buildings in that particular road in Oxford then this is the google street view URL https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7626398,-1.2594002,3a,75y,80.94h,85.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBVQRR2EoV1K62owyf7W5Aw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 05:46:21 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #994 on: November 30, 2018, 12:17:34 pm »

Hmmm, New Zealand. We can include NZ in the next theme as you have a few of these.

Cricket Pavilions - steamy in style if not function. Cricket throughout the old Empire, Oz has a few too. I expect some good ones.



PS. The horrible hobbits you mentioned aren't meant to be in NZ at all. Hobbiton and Bywater are meant to be set in the rural rolling countryside of North Oxfordshire and Warwickshire.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 05:52:06 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #995 on: December 01, 2018, 12:25:34 am »



 Are you suggesting New Zealand has turret envy...

We do have cricket pavilions in this far flung part of the Empire.  Being one to avoid cricket, I may not be showing the best examples here

Auckland Domain



Bert Sutcliffe Pavilion  Christchurch



Northland pavilion Whangarei


Lake Wakatipu [extra points for pith helmets]


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chironex
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« Reply #996 on: December 01, 2018, 12:32:51 pm »


By Contributor(s): Queenslander (Brisbane, Qld.:1866 - 1939) - Item is held by John Oxley Library, State Library of Queensland, Public Domain. The "Gabba", Woolongong, Brisbane, c. 1899.

Looks nothing like it now.
But, at least it has close by:

The disused Broadway Hotel;

Norman Hotel;


These commercial buildings;

The old post office;

Nazareth Lutheran Church;

Princess Theatre;

Holy Trinity Anglican;

Old police station;

Brewhouse;

Morrison Hotel.

This was once there:

c.1900.

And it is the site of the "Fiveways": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolloongabba_Fiveways



1929

1900
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Orkses is never beaten in battle. If we wins we wins and if we dies we dies fightin' so it don't count as beat. Even if we runs away it means we can always come back for anuvver go, see!

QUEENSLAND RAIL NOT FOR SALE!!!!!!
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #997 on: December 01, 2018, 02:25:53 pm »

That picture of Brisbane's cricket ground, I know which Brisbane I'd prefer to visit. The later one looks like any other American city. The Norman Hotel and the Princess Theatre look like places to visit though the XXXX symbol on the roof of the Norman decries the standard of beer to be found there...

Gonville and Caius College's cricket Pavilion.



« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 03:43:59 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #998 on: December 01, 2018, 03:36:58 pm »

Lots more Antipodean Pavilions out there I am sure. There is also bound to be at least one in Patagonia somewhere.



The Tabernacle Cricket Pavilion. Mote Cricket Club.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #999 on: December 01, 2018, 05:56:38 pm »

You missed the best bit of Fiveways...

The signalbox in the middle of the road to cater for the trains, trams, trucks and transient transport.

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