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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 139626 times)
Banfili
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« Reply #1200 on: November 21, 2017, 12:17:28 pm »

True, unclebert, but I don't like an excessive amount of salt.  Very rarely cook with it, and rarely use it on my food - except, of course, on my spuds!
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Will Howard
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« Reply #1201 on: November 29, 2017, 06:06:18 pm »

How do we access lists from various countries?  I'm looking for Spain today.
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« Reply #1202 on: November 30, 2017, 11:22:39 pm »

We don't have a Spanish list, we have a Mexican list that might have some Spanish inspired items.
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« Reply #1203 on: December 01, 2017, 12:18:41 am »

How do we access lists from various countries?  I'm looking for Spain today.

We don't have a Spanish list, we have a Mexican list that might have some Spanish inspired items.

There is no Spanish list. The "curated" lists are for the UK, the USA, Mexico and Japan. Informally, without actually listing them by country in a single page, the European brands we found are just peppered throughout the whole thread... which does make it difficult to track, because in contrast, when I want something from a list- say the US or Japan, I just have to find the latest post in this thread where I updated the whole list (always hidden in a spoiler, and I keep a copy in my computer at home).  I think Prof Cecily shared a couple of items two years ago in December (page 35) and in May 2016 (page 39)...

I'm afraid the Mexican list will be of very little to no help as it is very short and by the 19th. C Mexico was quite divorced from the Spanish markets. By the late 19th. C. Spain was no longer a potent force in Mexican culture. Non-Hispanic migrants like Italians (i.e. Chocolate Turin, Pasteleria El Globo) and French migrants, and even a few Germans (eg Pacifico Beer), had long taken the place of the Spanish as the merchant class in Mexican society. And that not even mentioning the influence of last-quarter century British brands, and American companies in Mexico at the turn of the 20th. C. So you'll find little Spanish connection to Mexican brands and a surprising number of non Hispanic foreign names instead.

Most Spanish-derived Mexican foods are traditional and predate the supermarket, no later than 1800, and going back as far as the 1600s or even earlier possibly just after the Conquest of the Aztec in 1521 (eg Chorizo sausage, made from pork offal and sweet chile pepper a/k/a paprika, is possibly one Renaissance Era food) and thus enter under the category of "vittles' and not "brands." In contrast, the French influenced Mexican foods start to appear around the 1830s or so, and cement their presence after the French Intervention of the 1860s. The Italians come in during the 1880s, and American brands don't come in until the last decade or so of the 19th. C (note that the Mexican War of Independence happened between 1810 and 1821).

The only Pre-20th C common foods between Spain and Mexico that may have supermaket brands are possibly wines (including sweet wines like Jerez/Sherry) and sweets, like Chocolate. One brand that comes to mind, Ibarra, makes the Renaissance Era class of Mexican-Spanish early un-emulsified chocolates with cinnamon and almond - literally this is the oldest iteration of chocolate-proper anywhere in the world (i.e. chocolate = cocoa+cane sugar). But I don't think Ibarra is a Victorian brand, so I didn't include it if I remember correctly. One exception of a Victorian Era brand might be Sidral Mundet (literally the world's first apple soda), which is a Spanish-founded brand in Mexico - but I don't think the brand was ever sold in Spain.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:17:01 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1204 on: December 24, 2017, 11:07:43 pm »

Wright's Baking (London's only Flour Mill) Est. 1867.

Renshaw (Marzipan manufactures) Est. 1898. (now part of the Real Good Food Company PLC)
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« Reply #1205 on: December 25, 2017, 01:25:37 am »


Very good!
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1206 on: December 25, 2017, 03:22:58 pm »

Felinfoel Brewery 1878
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1207 on: December 25, 2017, 11:09:13 pm »

"Feeling foul" - the Welsh probably consider it a food. We can add it to the beverages part of the list.
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« Reply #1208 on: December 28, 2017, 12:13:41 am »

"Feeling foul" - the Welsh probably consider it a food. We can add it to the beverages part of the list.

Indeed, if all I was doing is drinking and not eating, I'd also feel foul  Grin
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« Reply #1209 on: January 05, 2018, 08:24:22 pm »

I don't think we've included Hero fruit preserves, from Switzerland, since 1886, have we?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_Group
https://www.hero-group.ch/

Quote
1886: Foundation of Conservenfabrik Lenzburg, Henckell & Zeiler Hero was established in 1886 when two friends, Gustav Henckell and Gustav Zeiler, set up the Henckell & Zeiler, Conservenfabrik Lenzburg to process fruit and vegetables. Henckell was an experienced conserve factory employee while Zeiler was a fruit farmer. By the end of the year, they were joined by Carl Roth as a silent partner.
1889: Carl Roth becomes a full partner Gustav Zeiler, aged 30, died unexpectedly on February 12, 1889, and was succeeded by Carl Roth. The company was renamed Henckell & Roth.
1910: Launch of the Hero brand The Hero brand name, derived from the first two letters of the partners` names, HEnckell and ROth, was launched in 1910. Tin cans also inspired the name with the letters H, R, and O resembling their shape. This remains true today.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:04:11 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1210 on: January 05, 2018, 09:11:03 pm »

One for the UK Mount Gay Rum 1703

Quote
Mount Gay Rum is produced by Mount Gay Distilleries Ltd. of Barbados, the easternmost island of the West Indies. The oldest surviving deed for the company is from 1703, making Mount Gay Rum the world’s oldest commercial rum distillery.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1211 on: January 06, 2018, 04:04:09 pm »

One for the UK Mount Gay Rum 1703

Quote
Mount Gay Rum is produced by Mount Gay Distilleries Ltd. of Barbados, the easternmost island of the West Indies. The oldest surviving deed for the company is from 1703, making Mount Gay Rum the world’s oldest commercial rum distillery.

Good one. I'd say that qualifies for both the Empire and the U.S. lists.
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« Reply #1212 on: January 07, 2018, 03:02:18 am »

One for the UK Mount Gay Rum 1703

Quote
Mount Gay Rum is produced by Mount Gay Distilleries Ltd. of Barbados, the easternmost island of the West Indies. The oldest surviving deed for the company is from 1703, making Mount Gay Rum the world’s oldest commercial rum distillery.

Good one. I'd say that qualifies for both the Empire and the U.S. lists.

Should we be keeping a separate list for alcohol, though? It seems to me there would be 100 times more alcohol brands from English Speaking countries than we have enumerated already.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1213 on: January 07, 2018, 12:20:59 pm »

I just let the alcohol suggestions in without promoting their inclusion nor suggesting too many others. It is a food list after all.
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Banfili
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« Reply #1214 on: January 07, 2018, 12:25:22 pm »

Well, unclebert, you can cook with rum!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1215 on: January 07, 2018, 08:12:44 pm »

Well, unclebert, you can cook with rum!

If you're like me, you can cook with just about any alcohol. Beer is quite versatile. Beer battered shrimp and beer-can chicken, for example.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1216 on: January 07, 2018, 10:21:15 pm »



Well, unclebert, you can cook with rum!

If you're like me, you can cook with just about any alcohol. Beer is quite versatile. Beer battered shrimp and beer-can chicken, for example.

'Tis all quite true! I find British beer is not as useful for cooking, though some swear by it, as it has a high hop concentration making it quite/very bitter. It needs to be done in a subtle fashion or not at all. Beer batter is well-known but I have to say I struggle to discern the taste.

I included beer at the beginning myself but I won't encourage more alcohol. If it appears though I won't keep it out.

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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1217 on: January 08, 2018, 03:27:05 am »



Well, unclebert, you can cook with rum!

If you're like me, you can cook with just about any alcohol. Beer is quite versatile. Beer battered shrimp and beer-can chicken, for example.

'Tis all quite true! I find British beer is not as useful for cooking, though some swear by it, as it has a high hop concentration making it quite/very bitter. It needs to be done in a subtle fashion or not at all. Beer batter is well-known but I have to say I struggle to discern the taste.

I included beer at the beginning myself but I won't encourage more alcohol. If it appears though I won't keep it out.



It's a Lager thing, I'm afraid. Beer batter is a very tricky thing to make. I found that when I got it wrong the results were catastrophic. That being said, the best beer battered shrimp were served at a Mexican-American restaurant chain named "Carlos and Charlie's" in the 1980s. There were several of those in Mexico City and one of them close by where I lived. I loved going there for the food but also the ambiance.

Their theme was 1900s Mexico City central market on the bottom floor, and they had this wonderful mix bag of folkloric Mexican and Edwardian Era furniture and old photographs all over the walls, sort of like a downtown farmer's market eatery, with all the grotesque Day of the Dead motifs you'd expect from that culture. The centre piece was a closed in wooden rustic bar at the centre, with the tables surrounding it and a rotunda around it, with a second floor balcony full of tables. The upper floor had a carnival, circus sideshow theme, and featured antique carousel horses.

The restaurant was a picture window to the period when Modern European, British, and American cultures were blending with Mexican Folklore in in the city -sort of like the Meiji Era in Tokyo. The poor people dressed in traditional garb and walked. The elegant people dressed in Western clothing and moved about in horse drawn carriages. I didn't know Steampunk back then, but certainly that would be a good choice today for a Steampunk gathering.

El Palacio de Hierro ("The Iron Palace") Deparment Store in Mexico City, 1890

Cathedral and tramway kiosk/station at Zocalo (Main Plaza) in Mexico City, ca. 1890

And on the "wrong side of the tracks" (a poor neighborhood) in Mexico City, a liquor shop in Tacubaya Burrough, ca. 1885
You have to mentally blend these styles to get that "Meiji Era" effect, and then picture a farmer's market downtown in this hybrid style.

The specific restaurant, "Tecamacharlies" (first 2 pics below) was closed in 2015(?) after 36 years of successful business and has been renamed as TK Terraza Grill. I don't know from the few photographs on the web if it still has that old anachronistic charm inside. May have been re-done in a bit more contemporary "industrial warehouse" theme  (bottom 2 pics), and less "Mexican market."




« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:31:01 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1218 on: January 09, 2018, 02:34:51 pm »

UK/Empire list:-
Whitakers Chocolates 1889

EDIT

Oriental list:-
Nippon Flour Mills 1896

« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 02:58:47 pm by Mercury Wells » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1219 on: January 09, 2018, 03:22:34 pm »


I'll add them to the list, Chocolate for many years was considered a 'food'.

and for your delectation here is the current UK list

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 03:27:55 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1220 on: January 09, 2018, 05:15:40 pm »


I'll add them to the list, Chocolate for many years was considered a 'food'.

and for your delectation here is the current UK list

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it seems that Whitakers chocolates in the UK is not the same as Whitaker's chocolates in NZ (Christchurch, 1896) . So you have twins in the Empire?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 05:17:38 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1221 on: January 09, 2018, 05:30:45 pm »

So it seems that Whitakers chocolates in the UK is not the same as Whitaker's chocolates in NZ (Christchurch, 1896) . So you have twins in the Empire?


One 't', two 'tt's.

I'll take both thankyou.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1222 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:16 pm »

So it seems that Whitakers chocolates in the UK is not the same as Whitaker's chocolates in NZ (Christchurch, 1896) . So you have twins in the Empire?


One 't', two 'tt's.

I'll take both thankyou.

Indeed. Two T's and an apostorphe before the "s"  Grin We have Hershey's chocolate, and Hershey's Chocolate Ice Cream, both unrelated.
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« Reply #1223 on: January 09, 2018, 11:29:05 pm »


I'll add them to the list, Chocolate for many years was considered a 'food'.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1224 on: January 09, 2018, 11:47:16 pm »

I'll add them to the list, Chocolate for many years was considered a 'food'.

Chocolate still is and always will be considered a food.

Good point. Since when is chocolate not a food? And if not a food, what is it? It's not a hot drink exclusively - not with the calorie wallop that it packs, and noting we eat it in solid form as well. A recreational candy exclusively? A condiment like spice? Not really. And before we split hairs by differentiating chocolate from cocoa let me point out that 1. Arguably spices and candies are also food, since they are commonly ingredients of commonly accepted prepared foods, cocoa and sugar cane included. 2. Chocolate is a main ingredient usually mixed into pumpkin seed meal and penuts in dishes like Mole, which is the Mexican equivalent of Indian Curry, in other words. the sauce is a meal in itself, with the cocoa providing a significant amount of fat calories besides the seeds and peanuts.

Chocolate is a food, at least as far back as when the Spanish first added sugar to powdered Mexican cacao (cocoa) to generate the first "Chocolate" (hallowed be thy name), and most likely long before that, used in foods before sugar cane arrived with the Spanish. Though there are few written original Native recipes we can see, other than a few Latin-alphabet written descriptions with illustrations drawn by Spanish-educated Aztecs in the 16th. C. The rest of pre-Hispanic cuisine was passed by oral tradition. We know natives drank cocoa before the Spanish arrived because we have carved illustrations on Mayan stelae depicting drinking of cocoa by nobles and kings more than a thousand years ago. Also, we have pottery cocoa vessels from the Classic Maya Period with the word "ka-ka-o" explicitly written in syllabic glyphs.

It'd be interesting if someone could find a "proto-Mole" receipe somewhere, perhaps called something like "Ka-Kao-Molli" (in the Aztec tongue "Molli" a/k/a Mole means "sauce," as in "Alguacamolli" a/k/a Guacamole, literally, "Avocado Sauce"). Sadly there was no Aztec alphabet and 99% of the tree-bark books written by the Maya, who had a well developed alphabet, were burned by the Spanish in the 16th. C, so good luck finding a recipe book. I can't imagine how many recipes were burned for "being the work of the devil."  Undecided

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:48:18 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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