If this is the "lighter" side of steampunk, what is the darker side?

[walkthebassline]

I confess. Pretentious, vapid and silly is the exact goal I am aiming for here.

Because I have a real life, one where I spent over ten years involved with support for clinical trials for cancer drugs. Most of which didn't prove to be safe or effective.

This is play, because I need to relax and be silly sometimes. This forum (and it is far from the only Steampunk community online or in meatspace) fits my goals and needs admirably.

Brass Goggles is a "revolt against a particular kind of steampunk." It is a revolt against all those who feel obligated to criticize others for being frivolous, those who will not consider you a Steampunk unless you pass a political litmus test, against those who find no joy in life.

You know who they are.

(added: Oh, and I sincerely apologize for the entire Steampunk community for the name "steampunk." The name originated as an off-the-cuff joke by an author, and while I recognize that historical origin does not constrain current usage, it is a capital mistake to read more into the name than was intended.)

You just summed up nearly everything I was about to say. Thank you.

The only thing I would add is that I'm not sure what agenda Brass Goggles has. I haven't noticed one but I've seen several people complaining that one exists. Could someone explain what the agenda is? (I'm not sure I got the memo.)

[Augustus Longeye]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

[walkthebassline]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

[Sir Nikolas of Vendigroth]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

Well, we're after the moon as well...

[Just call me Rob]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

o

Well, we're after the moon as well...

I own the moon. I can sell it to you for £165.
Paypal me the cash and I'll send you the ownership documents.

[Dr Fidelius]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

Well, we're after the moon as well...

Heute die Welt, Morgan das Sonnesystem.

[Herr Döktor]

I told myself I wouldn't do this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I told myself that there was nothing here for me and that if I came back, even just to look that I would get drawn into something I should avoid.

I told myself there was no way anything I started could still be going after being gone for so many weeks.

And yet here I am, and much to my surprise, this post is still up. 

So after lying awake all night unable to think of anything but potential replies I've given in.

So here it is, undoubtedly it will probably be misinterpreted anyway but at least I can stop composing this letter over and over again in my mind.

For people who think I am a troll, I am not.  The reason I asked this question, "what is the darker side of steampunk" is that I was trying to find somewhere else on the internet to hang out and discuss my interests since it became apparent to me that I did not fit in at brass goggles.

In retrospect it seems obvious that anyone who would call their club "the lighter side" of anything must have an axe to grind, and after spending a just over a year on BG it finally sunk in that this place is not an open forum but a place with an agenda.  I'll admit, I still can't exactly put my finger on exatcly what that agenda is but I can tell when I don't belong.

It seems that there is very little "steam" or "punk" here. Instead there is a kind of forced silliness. Now, lets be clear, I have nothing against silliness and indulge in it more often than you would think but what I am speaking of is the almost palpable undercurrent of defensiveness and anger that I see here anytime someone (often but certainly not always me) brings up the idea of functional steampunk or living any kind of steampunk lifestyle. Its almost as if the idea is somehow a threat, as if the idea that a person can actually live out many of the concepts expressed in steampunk fiction is somehow repugnant. Perhasp its jealousy, perhaps you live in a culture where it is impossible to live as true eccentric, or perhaps you feel threatened by anyone who wants to do for real what you like to play at. I really don't know. Perhaps the world is just filled with so many conservative minded people that even something going by the unlikely name of 'steampunk' is merely another gentlemans smoking room.

You fantasize about me twirling my mustache will trying to start a flame war but I fantasize about a bunch of victorian ladies sitting around drinking tea and discussing the latest pulp story they have read.

"Steam powered Zeppelins, my my, how fantastic and what about the size of that hand cannon the captain had. How I would like to get my hands on his cannon heheheh, but can you imagine if any of that was real? How horrid, all that smoke and sweat and it would be soo dangerous, we really are lucky non of that ever happened."

You see, accessibility of steampunk is most of what makes me attracted to it. Its filled with things that even if didn't actually exist can probably be built now and ways of life that are can be fully realized.

Or at least thats what I think. It wasn't as if I was going into threads about yet another painted prop piece and telling people there stuff sucked but most every time I or a like minded person brought up a desire or example of something "real" that I wanted to do or make I always found someone who told me that they thought it was either too dangerous, illegal, or would be better done as a fake prop. I consider the first two opinions to be insulting because they A, rely on unfounded assumptions concerning skill and legal status and B, are none of your damn business. The idea that something would be better as prop is fine but really is misplaced in any post where someone states they want to make a real object.

So as this feeling grew I decided that rather than abandon any connection between my steampunk interests and the outside world I would try and find out if there was somewhere else on the internet that I could go. If BG is a revolt against a particular kind of steampunk then I though that perhaps I should find that place and join up with it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

Shortly after creating this post I was chastised vie a private message concerning an unrelated post. Apparently  my contributions to what I thought was a rather interesting discussion about weapons design broke to rule of "Only silliness allowed"

I suppose I should mention that I was very ill at the time and had been in bed all week attempting to distract myself from my physical condition and I was in no mood to be criticized by any kind official for what seemed to me an utterly non controversial thread where none of the participants where the slightest bit upset.

So, I did what any good internet user would do, I fired off an angry reply saying something like "I'm going to go find a place with more steam and punk and less hot air" and promptly deleted my account in the hope that all my threads would disappear and my exsitance would be forgoten.

Alas, I quickly found that  although there are some forums with the tone that I am looking for, BG is the only truly active forum and so I decided that I had no need to interact with other people and that I was better off just staying on my hill and spending more time in my shop and less on my computer.

Until tonight when half asleep and bored I somehow found myself back here and was shocked to see this post still in existence and near the top of the page.

So there you have it. Not trolling, not even an attempt to have a discussion but a simple search for an escape hatch.

It should go without saying that there are several people here on BG that I   am very impressed with and some that I rather like, (you know who you are), but the overall tone of the forum I find hostile, pretentious and vapid.

Then why DID you do it?

My dear fellow, if you can live a 'Steampunk' lifestyle 24/7, please go and do so, and stop telling those of us that can only manage few hours a day that we're just pretentious dilettantes!

Seriously, if there's an 'agenda' anywhere on this forum, I do believe I just quoted it...

[neon_suntan]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

Well, we're after the moon as well...

... ideally on a stick.

[D.Oakes]

I confess. Pretentious, vapid and silly is the exact goal I am aiming for here.

Because I have a real life, one where I spent over ten years involved with support for clinical trials for cancer drugs. Most of which didn't prove to be safe or effective.

This is play, because I need to relax and be silly sometimes. This forum (and it is far from the only Steampunk community online or in meatspace) fits my goals and needs admirably.

Brass Goggles is a "revolt against a particular kind of steampunk." It is a revolt against all those who feel obligated to criticize others for being frivolous, those who will not consider you a Steampunk unless you pass a political litmus test, against those who find no joy in life.

You know who they are.

(added: Oh, and I sincerely apologize for the entire Steampunk community for the name "steampunk." The name originated as an off-the-cuff joke by an author, and while I recognize that historical origin does not constrain current usage, it is a capital mistake to read more into the name than was intended.)

You just summed up nearly everything I was about to say. Thank you.

The only thing I would add is that I'm not sure what agenda Brass Goggles has. I haven't noticed one but I've seen several people complaining that one exists. Could someone explain what the agenda is? (I'm not sure I got the memo.)

Nothing I have done project-wise has been very light and I am still around....reanimated hands in cages, skeleton soldiers, photos incorporating real firearms, the occasional post with radical political undertones....I too am wondering what this agenda is.  It's starting to make me paranoid, are you day-walkers plotting my demise?    

[MWBailey]

YES! Er, no, why would you think that?


Seems the agendizing fellow got our attention again, doesn't it...

[The Corsair]

YES! Er, no, why would you think that?


Seems the agendizing fellow got our attention again, doesn't it...

One a penny, two a penny, hot cross conspiracies buns

[Ulysses Reynolds]

I confess. Pretentious, vapid and silly is the exact goal I am aiming for here.

Because I have a real life, one where I spent over ten years involved with support for clinical trials for cancer drugs. Most of which didn't prove to be safe or effective.

This is play, because I need to relax and be silly sometimes. This forum (and it is far from the only Steampunk community online or in meatspace) fits my goals and needs admirably.

Brass Goggles is a "revolt against a particular kind of steampunk." It is a revolt against all those who feel obligated to criticize others for being frivolous, those who will not consider you a Steampunk unless you pass a political litmus test, against those who find no joy in life.

You know who they are.

(added: Oh, and I sincerely apologize for the entire Steampunk community for the name "steampunk." The name originated as an off-the-cuff joke by an author, and while I recognize that historical origin does not constrain current usage, it is a capital mistake to read more into the name than was intended.)

You just summed up nearly everything I was about to say. Thank you.

The only thing I would add is that I'm not sure what agenda Brass Goggles has. I haven't noticed one but I've seen several people complaining that one exists. Could someone explain what the agenda is? (I'm not sure I got the memo.)

Nothing I have done project-wise has been very light and I am still around....reanimated hands in cages, skeleton soldiers, photos incorporating real firearms, the occasional post with radical political undertones....I too am wondering what this agenda is.  It's starting to make me paranoid, are you day-walkers plotting my demise?    

Ya know after reading this post, I decided to crawl through the interwebz and take a look at some of the other forums. WTF, I'm rather glad this was the first forum I stumbled upon. Otherwise I may have been turned from steampunk entirely by some of the pretentious pricks that populate some of the other boards.

[Narsil]

In my experience one of the big upsides of this forum is that it is free from a lot of the semi-lunatic ranting that blights so many otherwise good discussion boards.

It is certainly a valid point that a tightly moderated forum can sometimes be limiting in terms of what you can discuss but you pay your money and take your choice. Unfortunately a lot of freer forums for discussion tend to sink under a tide of rants and personal abuse which make discussing anything close to impossible.

The downside of maintaining  peace and harmony is that some subjects have to be off limits because long experience has shown that they almost inevitably cause problems. If something is just going to lead to a bitter argument if it's allowed to run you still don't get to discuss it in the end whatever happens and lots of people get upset in the process.

As to naysayers, well that's just life. If you try to do something difficult then it's only reasonable that people will point out the potential difficulties. Anyone is entirely at liberty to pick and choose what advice they take and what advice they ignore.

There are however sometimes instances where people ask questions which make it pretty clear that they aren't competent to attempt what they have in mind. To my mind if someone is put of by the mere mention of potential difficulties then they are unlikely to be able to cope with the actual difficulties themselves. Nobody here has to power to stop anyone else from making or doing exactly what they want.

In any polite community there is a balance between encouraging people to be more ambitious and encouraging people who aren't sure where to start.

[D.Oakes]

It is certainly a valid point that a tightly moderated forum can sometimes be limiting in terms of what you can discuss but you pay your money and take your choice. Unfortunately a lot of freer forums for discussion tend to sink under a tide of rants and personal abuse which make discussing anything close to impossible.

Truthfully I never really felt like this forum was moderated to the point of being constricting.  There are times when things have been said or done that required an aside on the engine room or through private messaging, but nothing really extreme.  If anything the rules regarding politics and religion for instance are great and many times in depth philosophical discussions have developed where they may have otherwise been some angry debate on religion or politics that wouldn't even scratch the surface of an idea.

I was part of a forum many years ago that would often times get bogged down in battles over words and not the ideas behind the words.  Here that rarely if ever happens. 

[neon_suntan]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

Well, we're after the moon as well...

... ideally on a stick.

Artists impression

[walkthebassline]

World domination of course.
~Longeye~

Oh, that. I thought it was something more.

Well, we're after the moon as well...

... ideally on a stick.

Artists impression

Thank you kindly, that clears things right up!


Oakes, I agree with you. I'm on some other boards that are practically tyrannical in how they are moderated; this one has always been pretty good.

[MWBailey]

I sliced this off of my "agendizing fellow" remark above. For the sake of others who might take our "enforced silliness" the wrong way, I've decided to go ahead and post it here:

In answer to the the fellow whose ghost has returned,
1. Scathing remarks returned in response  to others' posts tend to be the very essence of flaming, in my experience.
2. Jokes,  silliness, and other apparent attempts to "hijack" a thread are often just that, but in a good way. It's called "threadjacking," and is intended to restore good humor and stave off ill feelings and, well, flames.
3. An answer to a post is something of a compliment. If the people didn't like one's topic, it would have died from lack of response.
4. To have a post continue beyond one's departure from both it and the site is in itself a gigantic compliment; it shows that others either (a)agree with or are interested in at least part of what one has said, or (b) respect one enough to rebutt. Or, (c) both a and b.

[Dr cornelius quack]

I sliced this off of my "agendizing fellow" remark above. For the sake of others who might take our "enforced silliness" the wrong way, I've decided to go ahead and post it here:

In answer to the the fellow whose ghost has returned,
1. Scathing remarks returned in response  to others' posts tend to be the very essence of flaming, in my experience.
2. Jokes,  silliness, and other apparent attempts to "hijack" a thread are often just that, but in a good way. It's called "threadjacking," and is intended to restore good humor and stave off ill feelings and, well, flames.
3. An answer to a post is something of a compliment. If the people didn't like one's topic, it would have died from lack of response.
4. To have a post continue beyond one's departure from both it and the site is in itself a gigantic compliment; it shows that others either (a)agree with or are interested in at least part of what one has said, or (b) respect one enough to rebutt. Or, (c) both a and b.

Or,  (d) So self absorbed that they jump at a chance to write their own half page manifesto on the subject.

This reply to your post comes with my compliments, and I refer you to point 2 above.

[The Corsair]

If all responding posts are technically compliments and peanuts come complimentary then are all posters peanuts?

[D.Oakes]

I'm a mixed bag of nuts. 

[walkthebassline]

If all responding posts are technically compliments and peanuts come complimentary then are all posters peanuts?

Well they do call it the peanut gallery. With the exception of Oakes of course. 

[MWBailey]

If all responding posts are technically compliments and peanuts come complimentary then are all posters peanuts?

I'm a *CASHEW!*

*CASHEW!*

bloody hayfever...

[Herr Döktor]

I heard Hazel was self pollinating, which makes her some kind of a nut.

[D.Oakes]

I heard Hazel was self pollinating, which makes her some kind of a nut.

Now where's the fun in that?   

[Lord Wraste]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I confess. Pretentious, vapid and silly is the exact goal I am aiming for here.

Because I have a real life, one where I spent over ten years involved with support for clinical trials for cancer drugs. Most of which didn't prove to be safe or effective.

This is play, because I need to relax and be silly sometimes. This forum (and it is far from the only Steampunk community online or in meatspace) fits my goals and needs admirably.

Brass Goggles is a "revolt against a particular kind of steampunk." It is a revolt against all those who feel obligated to criticize others for being frivolous, those who will not consider you a Steampunk unless you pass a political litmus test, against those who find no joy in life.

You know who they are.

(added: Oh, and I sincerely apologize for the entire Steampunk community for the name "steampunk." The name originated as an off-the-cuff joke by an author, and while I recognize that historical origin does not constrain current usage, it is a capital mistake to read more into the name than was intended.)

You just summed up nearly everything I was about to say. Thank you.

The only thing I would add is that I'm not sure what agenda Brass Goggles has. I haven't noticed one but I've seen several people complaining that one exists. Could someone explain what the agenda is? (I'm not sure I got the memo.)

Nothing I have done project-wise has been very light and I am still around....reanimated hands in cages, skeleton soldiers, photos incorporating real firearms, the occasional post with radical political undertones....I too am wondering what this agenda is.  It's starting to make me paranoid, are you day-walkers plotting my demise?    

Ya know after reading this post, I decided to crawl through the interwebz and take a look at some of the other forums. WTF, I'm rather glad this was the first forum I stumbled upon. Otherwise I may have been turned from steampunk entirely by some of the pretentious pricks that populate some of the other boards.

Seriously. My experience in forums stem from mostly educational subjects. Recently I attempted to sate some of my more geekly leaning interests (Legend of Zelda, specifically) and was astounded by the level of.... well.... not to sound more elitist than I do now, but the level of sheer idiotic babble out there! People that type in either all caps or no caps, with nary a comma or period to be seen!

It's enough to make one clutch a dictionary in fear.