The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
October 20, 2017, 10:54:28 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support BrassGoggles! Donate once or $3/mo.
 See details here.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The BBC Sherlock Thread - Spoilers Ahead!  (Read 6473 times)
CaptainMurra
Gunner
**
Australia Australia


why hello there!


« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2012, 03:20:31 am »

"Not surprisingly the BBC and Steven Moffat are not impressed."

Given what a mess they made of the second series of Sherlock I for one am not too bothered about their opinions on the matter.

Any US remake of Sherlock will struggle to be any worse than the sneering Holmes pastiche we had to suffer from the pen of Moffat. However, given the plaudits the second series of Sherlock seems to have garnered I seem to be a lone voice in the wilderness. As a non tv license payer (I do not need one as I only watch the BBC via iPlayer) at least I did not fund this mess.

although i do respect your opinion (as i should), what mess are we talking about here?
i thought the 2nd season was quite good to be fair,
what's your reasons against it?
Logged

Give thy thoughts no tongue - William Shakespeare
Seaton Begg
Snr. Officer
****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Anarcho-Dadaist


« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2012, 07:14:04 pm »

The 1st series introduced the characters and for me was entertaining stuff. The crimes were a bit weak, but the interaction between Holmes and Watson made up for this.

The 2nd series made Holmes in to a conceited arrogant and unlikable character. The crimes were very weak, and in true moffat style he can only do emotion by having characters glower at each other. Add to that a mine field in the english countryside and an officer with a beard and the wheels really start to come off. The last episode was simply terrible, with Holmes and some kid playing Moriarty doing truly epic moffat glowering.

I really do fail to understand how it all went so badly wrong.
Logged

We shall bewilder the masses with seams in our trousers that could cut paper, trilbies angled so rakishly that traffic comes to a standstill; and by refusing the bland, watery substances that are foisted upon us by faceless corporations, we shall bring the establishment to its knees.
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2012, 07:35:25 pm »

The 1st series introduced the characters and for me was entertaining stuff. The crimes were a bit weak, but the interaction between Holmes and Watson made up for this.

The 2nd series made Holmes in to a conceited arrogant and unlikable character. The crimes were very weak, and in true moffat style he can only do emotion by having characters glower at each other. Add to that a mine field in the english countryside and an officer with a beard and the wheels really start to come off. The last episode was simply terrible, with Holmes and some kid playing Moriarty doing truly epic moffat glowering.

I really do fail to understand how it all went so badly wrong.

I'm inclined to agree with that. I felt that in the first series they stayed reasonably faithful to the feel of the original stories by cutting and pasting elements from the originals, which is fine by me since Conan Doyle was hardly averse to recycling plot ideas himself.

I got the impression that in they second series they tried to be a bit more original and in doing so dropped the ball somewhat. The first two were ok but the hound one in particular was a bit too X-files for my liking. The finale however seemed a bit of a mess. All the wheels within wheels stuff is ok up to a point but it's not really the way Conan Doyle wrote and the underlying story didn't seem strong enough to support it.

I think that one of the issues is that although a lot of the window dressing of Holmes's methodology is observation and logic a lot of it actually comes down to understanding people's motivations. This may be either a cause or an effect of his basically anti-social nature, he sees most people as utterly predictable.

One result of this is that the really good Holmes stories are made by the fact that they move from a bizarre set of events to an entirely logical conclusion.

Even when the leaps of logic stretch credulity a bit you can't deny that it all does make perfect sense in the end and this is what the Holmes stories generally do very well, they make sense as logic puzzles and you;re usually given most of the important parts in reasonably plain sight, unlike much of Agatha Christie which usually relay on some utterly unguessable and improbable revelation for resolution.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 08:02:21 pm by Narsil » Logged







A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress.
Lord Byron
Sir Henry
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Poking the i's and drinking the t's


« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2012, 09:05:37 pm »

I really do fail to understand how it all went so badly wrong.
It may have been when Moffat redefined the whodunnit. We know who did it, we just don't know what, when, where or why.

But it was rather pretty eye candy; my favourite shot was in (I think) episode two of the latest series. Sherlock was looking through a window in a door into the morgue and all we see is his silhouette, which is the shape of a chess pawn. A lovely touch.
Logged

Cry "Have at!" and let's lick the togs of Waugh!
Arsed not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for tea.
CaptainMurra
Gunner
**
Australia Australia


why hello there!


« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2012, 12:06:37 am »

The 1st series introduced the characters and for me was entertaining stuff. The crimes were a bit weak, but the interaction between Holmes and Watson made up for this.

The 2nd series made Holmes in to a conceited arrogant and unlikable character. The crimes were very weak, and in true moffat style he can only do emotion by having characters glower at each other. Add to that a mine field in the english countryside and an officer with a beard and the wheels really start to come off. The last episode was simply terrible, with Holmes and some kid playing Moriarty doing truly epic moffat glowering.

I really do fail to understand how it all went so badly wrong.

I'm inclined to agree with that. I felt that in the first series they stayed reasonably faithful to the feel of the original stories by cutting and pasting elements from the originals, which is fine by me since Conan Dole was hardly averse to recycling plot ideas.

I got the impression that in they second series they tried to be a bit more original and in doing so dropped the ball somewhat. The first two were ok but the hound one in particular was a bit too X-files for my liking. The finale however seemed a bit of a mess. All the wheels within wheels stuff is ok up to a point but it's not really the way Conan Doyle wrote and the underlying story didn't seem strong enough to support it.

I think that one of the issues is that although a lot of the window dressing of Holmes's methodology is observation and logic a lot of it actually comes down to understanding people's motivations. This may be either a cause or an effect of his basically anti-social nature, he sees most people as utterly predictable.

One result of this is that the really good Holmes stories are made by the fact that they move from a bizarre set of events to an entirely logical conclusion.

Even when the leaps of logic stretch credulity a bit you can't deny that it all does make perfect sense in the end and this is what the Holmes stories generally do very well, they make sense as logic puzzles and you;re usually given most of the important parts in reasonably plain sight, unlike much of Agatha Christie which usually relay on some utterly unguessable and improbable revelation for resolution.



i do agree with you there in saying the first series was better, they went deeper into the crime like when he was showing the lady in pink. Overall i prefer the first series but i still enjoyed the second one. The focus on the last episode was based on moriarty too much, while in the first series it was around him but it still contained elements of somewhat mystery to who he was, which worked for me.

I still think the second series was good, Irene Adler was good but her profession was a bit...... weird..... for my liking, even if that was the point. THey had some great scenes but overall it was somewhat lacking more detailed crime analysis.
Logged
Seaton Begg
Snr. Officer
****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Anarcho-Dadaist


« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2012, 10:05:43 pm »

 
Quote
It may have been when Moffat redefined the whodunnit. We know who did it, we just don't know what, when, where or why.

*cough* Columbo *cough*

For me the root of the problem, and this goes for Dr Who as well, is that Moffat and his ilk cannot write entertaining drama and instead try and be much too clever. They fail because, for me, they are trying to talk down to be as an audience member, not by being too clever but instead by being much too stupid and having to hide this behind layers to window dressing.

Moffat is peddling the Emperors New Clothes.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 09:51:46 am by Seaton Begg » Logged
Sir Henry
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Poking the i's and drinking the t's


« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2012, 10:12:45 pm »

*cough* Columbo *cough*
Fair do's.
Logged
cer0
Gunner
**
Scotland Scotland

Commandant of the Nether-Aether Tactical Engineers

yodathedark
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2012, 11:43:47 am »

I enjoyed both seasons, and would agree that the first season was better.

I would not agree with Moffat being cast as a terrible writer - he's certainly better for Doctor Who than RTD was.
Logged

~[cer0]~
"Insanity is my only means of relaxation."
CaptainMurra
Gunner
**
Australia Australia


why hello there!


« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2012, 12:07:51 am »

i agree, i like Moffat's writing, it may not be up to some people's standards but i think its very enjoyable.

is it a coincidence that my two favourite series of all time are written by the same guys?
Logged
OswaldBastable
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Not in front of the men..................


« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2012, 04:08:33 am »

I'm neither a rabid fan nor do I dislike like; i do make a point of watching it and there arnt a huge number of programs that I really bother following.  Its reasonably well written, is entertaining and has to my mind a very good cast; I like Mr Cumberbatch even though I dont think the way Holmes is written/portrayed in the series is always in the same spirit as ACD wrote it. The writers do sometimes try to be overly clever but I think thats the fallout from trying to inject some originality into well known format. So I shall await the next series with a moderate level of anticipation.
Logged

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre
CaptainMurra
Gunner
**
Australia Australia


why hello there!


« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 03:02:26 am »

I'm neither a rabid fan nor do I dislike like; i do make a point of watching it and there arnt a huge number of programs that I really bother following.  Its reasonably well written, is entertaining and has to my mind a very good cast; I like Mr Cumberbatch even though I dont think the way Holmes is written/portrayed in the series is always in the same spirit as ACD wrote it. The writers do sometimes try to be overly clever but I think thats the fallout from trying to inject some originality into well known format. So I shall await the next series with a moderate level of anticipation.

well said, i like that opinion. i like it a lot.  Cheesy
Logged
Capt. Dirigible
Rogue Ætherlord
*
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Shirts?.....I got plenty at 'ome.


« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2012, 10:43:11 am »

Quote
According to current sources:
"Speaking of co-stars, the next big piece of the puzzle for the CBS pilot will be finding Miller's Holmes a Dr. Watson. If they wanted to change it up, it would be interesting to see them cast a woman in the role..."

Well they did it! The US version, 'Elementary' has cast Lucy Liu as 'Dr Joan Watson'..

I'm guessing this is to appease the Christian Right who would think there's something  'not right' about two single men living together! There was a similar problem when the US tried to make their version of Red Dwarf. The studio execs were worried about the reaction four male characters all alone on a space ship might get from certain sections of the audience so they changed Holly the computer to a female from the offset and had Christine Kochansky somehow survive the accident that wiped out the rest of the crew. It totally screwed up the entire concept of the show but hey! there was a woman on board so they can't be gay, right?
Logged

I say, Joe it's jolly frightening out here.
Nonsense dear boy, you should be more like me.
But look at you! You're shaking all over!
Shaking? You silly goose! I'm just doing the Watusi
cer0
Gunner
**
Scotland Scotland

Commandant of the Nether-Aether Tactical Engineers

yodathedark
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2012, 11:41:13 am »

Not only is Lucy Liu cast as Joan Watson, but Sherlock has retired from his life as a consultant for Scotland Yard to go into rehab in New York. Do we lack rehab facilities in the UK now?
Logged
Major Willoughby Chase
Guest
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2012, 11:44:22 am »

Not only is Lucy Liu cast as Joan Watson, <snip>

Intimate entry my dear Watson.
Logged
Capt. Dirigible
Rogue Ætherlord
*
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Shirts?.....I got plenty at 'ome.


« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2012, 04:34:12 pm »

Not only is Lucy Liu cast as Joan Watson, <snip>

Intimate entry my dear Watson.

Badda-BING!
Logged
Rockula
Board Moderator
Rogue Ætherlord
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Nothing beats a good hat.


« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2012, 05:20:48 pm »

O.k. so we're not holding out high hopes for the U.S. series right?

But I bet we all watch it just to make sure. Smiley
Logged

The legs have fallen off my Victorian Lady...
OswaldBastable
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Not in front of the men..................


« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2012, 08:11:56 pm »

Quote
According to current sources:
"Speaking of co-stars, the next big piece of the puzzle for the CBS pilot will be finding Miller's Holmes a Dr. Watson. If they wanted to change it up, it would be interesting to see them cast a woman in the role..."

Well they did it! The US version, 'Elementary' has cast Lucy Liu as 'Dr Joan Watson'..

I'm guessing this is to appease the Christian Right who would think there's something  'not right' about two single men living together! There was a similar problem when the US tried to make their version of Red Dwarf. The studio execs were worried about the reaction four male characters all alone on a space ship might get from certain sections of the audience so they changed Holly the computer to a female from the offset and had Christine Kochansky somehow survive the accident that wiped out the rest of the crew. It totally screwed up the entire concept of the show but hey! there was a woman on board so they can't be gay, right?

says plenty about the people complaining really, that closet must be crowded
Logged
citizen_erased
Zeppelin Captain
*****
Netherlands Netherlands


kojitmal
WWW
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2012, 04:54:08 pm »

O.k. so we're not holding out high hopes for the U.S. series right?

But I bet we all watch it just to make sure. Smiley

not holding out too high hopes is a bit of an understatement, I think.
Logged

Sometimes I vlog: www.youtube.com/realkojitmal
(I even once did a steampunk related video!)

There`s a blog too: http://kojitmal.wordpress.com
Professor Hesketh
Officer
***
England England


Astonishist


« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2012, 07:11:23 pm »

We'll probably see it when/if it appears here on digital (ain't got Sky).  Presumably there will be an explanation of why Joan Watson looks Chinese (maybe there was a Mr Watson).  Or it'll be the elephant in the room.  That said, Jonny Lee Miller is a good actor (recently seen him in the repeat of Emma and with Benedict Clumberblutch in Frankenstein.  Seeing that again in June, all being well, at our local Odeon as they're repeating it and last time we saw Jonny as Vic and Ben as Creach.  Want to see it vicey-versey). 

I guess Gatiss, the Moff and Auntie Beeb wanted to flog Sherlock to the US, hence much grinding of teeth and reaching for a seven per cent solution...
Logged
Mr Addams
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2012, 10:38:07 am »

This Topic wound down in March, ending with a flurry of speculation about the American modern day Sherlock Holmes series, "Elementary".

The series has been on our television screens, in the UK for a month now, but still no Comments, critiques, or moral outrage.

Am I the only person on brass goggles who has seen it?   
Logged
Augustus Longeye
Daedric Prince of Biscuits
Moderator
Rogue Ætherlord
*
United Kingdom United Kingdom


WWW
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2012, 10:39:42 am »

I didn't like what I saw, my father did. To be honest it bores me so much I didn't think I'd bother posting..... What did you think Mr Addams?
~Longeye~
Logged

Quote from: Sir Nikolas
I say you, chaps down there! Piss off, see? Haa ha! Love, Space Longeye <3
DreamHazard
Steam Aficionado
******
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Gravatar

Xander Wood


WWW
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2012, 10:51:05 am »

My theory for the Reichenbach ending:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's fairly realistic but possibly not perfect. That said it's my theory so I'm not going to respond to reason, contradiction or argument, simply because I want to see if I'm right Smiley


RE: Elementary, I've not seen it yet but I'll probably get round to it after I finish watching the Christopher Eccleston and Tom Baker Doctors Who.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 03:21:44 pm by DreamHazard » Logged

Rockula
Board Moderator
Rogue Ætherlord
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Nothing beats a good hat.


« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2012, 01:53:15 pm »

British 'Sherlock'. Loved both series. Hoping Cumberpatch's rising new Hollywood career doesn't mean that we don't get a 3rd.

U.S. 'Elementary'. Fine bit of fluff and entertaining. No great classic but Jonny Lee Miller does a good job with the ADD and OCD aspects inherent in the character of Holmes. And Lucy Liu is definitely the best looking 'Watson' I've ever seen. And it's better than Matt Frewer's dubious attempts from a couple of year's back.  Grin
Logged
markf
Goggleologist
*****
United States United States



WWW
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2012, 03:08:52 pm »

British 'Sherlock'. Loved both series. Hoping Cumberpatch's rising new Hollywood career doesn't mean that we don't get a 3rd.

U.S. 'Elementary'. Fine bit of fluff and entertaining. No great classic but Jonny Lee Miller does a good job with the ADD and OCD aspects inherent in the character of Holmes. And Lucy Liu is definitely the best looking 'Watson' I've ever seen. And it's better than Matt Frewer's dubious attempts from a couple of year's back.  Grin

Seconded on all counts. markf
Logged

US ARMY-WORKING HARDER, NOT SMARTER. Steampunk Smart Car & Office Cubicle, Levitating Mossarium, Dive Pocket Watch; 1915 Wilson Goggles/Swing-Arm Monocular; Boiling Tube Lamp; Pocket Watch/Cell Phone; Air Kraken Augmentotron. http://sites.google.com/site/steampunkretrofuturedesignsmd
Octavius von Gilgamesh
Immortal
**
Australia Australia


Captain of the Ariadne's Sorrow


« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2012, 03:37:28 am »

I have to disagree with you there. While Mr. Miller does a fine job of portraying the nuances of the Sherlock character, to my mind he comes off as a stuck up twat who feels that everyone is beneath him. Having read all of the books, this certainly does seem to mirror what ACD wrote, but the book character seems to have a warmth that is missing in the series.

And in regards to the casting of Miss Liu.....No, sorry, just no.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 03:40:33 am by Octavius von Gilgamesh » Logged

May the gods stand between you and harm, in all the empty places where you must walk.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.364 seconds with 16 queries.