The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
October 21, 2017, 03:13:52 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support BrassGoggles! Donate once or $3/mo.
 See details here.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A greenhorn's question regarding prop guns....  (Read 5067 times)
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« on: April 15, 2011, 04:59:46 pm »

Greetings and salutations....what a wonderful site you folks have here .

After finishing Cherie Priest's Dreadnought , I have been officially hooked on the 'steampunk' genre of fiction and it's style.

I'm about 12 pages or so into the very interesting thread entitled "A Collective Thread for All Them Guns" , and I am curious what the site's consensus  is regarding 'functioning weapons' ?

I am a 44 year old machinist and amateur home gunsmith . I have a replica 1847 Walker Colt blackpowder revolver that I have been wanting to modify in the 'Steampunk' theme.

Nothing that I intend to do will be illegal ( at least in this country) and I , of course , have no illicit intents with the finished piece , other than to enjoy it at my home range here in the deep dark woods of Maine.

As a huge fan of the (sadly) canceled series "Firefly" , and having a love of Mal's handgun , I have long wanted to build / modify an existing antique revolver to something vaguely similar in style to his.  The Walker I own is a prime candidate, at least in my own humble opinion . The first thing I intend to do is obtain a Kurst cartridge conversion to enable it to fire 45 Long Colt with blackpowder loads ......from there it would be a 'make-it-up-as-I-go-along' approach , a style that I find comfortable to work with .

What I'm wondering , being new to this site , is if there is any hatred and/or opposition to the discussion and display of one's building and shooting of a "Steampunk Dragoon"  ?

Just for those unfamiliar with the Walkers , a pic of my Guinea Pig :

Logged

.....and the road becomes my bride .
Μολὼν λαβέ
LivingDedBoy
Officer
***
United States United States


I tend to post while drunk


« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 05:09:15 pm »

Not as far as I know, in fact if you go a few posts down you'll see a one by JimMarch about modding his personal weapon.

By all means, we're not a gunsmithing forum, and the large majority own nothing more threatening than a bb gun. But I know I'd at least be interested in seeing the results, if nothing more.
Logged

The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
    George Carlin
Deacon Aegis
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 05:13:58 pm »

Gunslinger,
Howdy! I sure hope discussions such as this are not out of line here or a few folks would be in trouble. Hehe. I'm new to the forums here myself and am also an amateur gunsmith, though I predominantly work on and custom build 1911's. Never-the-less, I love that folks seem pretty cool with things as long as they are Steampunk-centric. Personally, I look forward to seeing what you do with your Dragoon!
Logged
Rockula
Board Moderator
Rogue Ætherlord
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Nothing beats a good hat.


« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 05:34:01 pm »

If you go to F.A.Q. you can find the general rules about all subjects and guage the attitude of the site and Forum Moderators.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30119.0.html
Logged

The legs have fallen off my Victorian Lady...
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2011, 06:08:10 pm »

If you go to F.A.Q. you can find the general rules about all subjects and guage the attitude of the site and Forum Moderators.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30119.0.html


Ahh yes ....that was indeed the type of 'overview' I was wondering about . Scary that the topic of GUNS was at the top of the very short, controversial list .

I don't intend to purposely make waves here and fully understand that this is hardly the venue to debate topics relating to our 2nd amendment .

The Walker being an 1847 model should fall into the category of 'period correct' and be a suitable candidate for modification , and hopefully not draw any 'friendly fire' from the mods here , or the site's many members.

Any further input would be greatly appreciated by myself .

Thanks,
Brion

Logged
Captain
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2011, 06:32:28 pm »

Walker.  Nice choice. 

What sort of mods are you looking at?  Do you actually have a holster to wear a Walker? 

I knew a fellow who carried a pair of bone handled Walkers for SASS and had to hand make his rig including suspenders since they and their gear was so heavy.  It came out pretty nice in a redish colored latigo.  When he changed kits he ended up selling everything (including the special flasks and tool with the pouches he made for them) for $600.00. 
Logged

-Karl
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 07:29:04 pm »

Walker.  Nice choice. 

What sort of mods are you looking at?  Do you actually have a holster to wear a Walker? 

I knew a fellow who carried a pair of bone handled Walkers for SASS and had to hand make his rig including suspenders since they and their gear was so heavy.  It came out pretty nice in a redish colored latigo.  When he changed kits he ended up selling everything (including the special flasks and tool with the pouches he made for them) for $600.00. 


Holy cow ....$600 ?
Someone got a heluva bargain .

I've made some sheaths for different knives that came with scuzzy thin sheaths from the manufacturer ....

......a holster should be about the same level of work .

I joined SASS back when I lived in Oklahoma , but with my work schedule , I can no longer compete in any events due to the unpredictability of when I'll be home .

As far as the mods to this Walker , after the cartridge conversion,I plan on starting with a large , finger-grooved hand grip from walnut or such, and then some brass and copper pieces . Probably a sort of a fancy rail-type sight group on the top milled out of brass with jewels for the front sight and something ornate for the rear . Probably a large tapered piece that replaces the ram-rod set-up , or at least hides it .......maybe a replacement for it all together . It really depends on what I scrounge up for suitable pieces that I can incorporate into the 'steam punk' look , and have some sort of usable function at the same time.

A copper and brass accented shoulder rig ( 'Docker's Clutch '? ) would be proper , as would a modified antique box to house the unit in for display ( probably from an old silverware case )
Logged
Captain
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 08:28:27 pm »

OK, you used a brass harness "ring" on the bottom of the one sheath too (nice work).  That is what Duane used to attach his leather suspenders (I didn't think that anyone would know what I was talking about) and one of our big game guides/mule skinners here makes his belt/suspenders with. 

I am not that fond of that sort of leather work and have been putting off making a sheath/holster for my Elgin cutlass for some time now.  It could make a steamy boot gun/blade.

Logged
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 10:10:47 pm »

That's a beautiful collection Captain ....and thank you .
Logged
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 10:19:18 pm »

Oh and Captain .  .  .  .  in regards to your PM , a SASS shoot opposite the SP convention , would no doubt draw quite a few tire kickers  ( at the very least ) and probably  bring some fresh competitors  into the hobby .

I'd have replied to your PM , but it says I cant ... is this a feature only available after one has been here a while ( minimum post count or something ) ?
Logged
Captain
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding.


WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 11:15:52 pm »

I have no idea why you were unable to respond to the PM(?) 

We'll just have to see if the local folks organize such a shoot.  In the meantime I am trying to steam my local group which is progressing slowly but steadily. 

My next step is to get them out of fugly plastic safety glasses, which spoils their nicer cowboy duds, and into something more like:

Logged
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 11:34:04 pm »

 Shocked

Oh those ARE nice . . . very nice indeed .

<off to check out that website>
Logged
Captain Lyerly
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Ukraine Ukraine


At the helm of the Frumious Bandersnatch


« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 11:44:43 pm »

Nice glasses - figures that I have a pair of those that I got for SASS, before I really got into Steampunk!  I got the polycarbonate lenses to my prescription; but it took the lady a lot of work getting an amber tint into them.

The Walker is a great choice; I had one some time back that I have much regret over selling.  Looking forward to seeing your completed rig.  I found it fascinating that you can load a Walker safely to loads that approach the .44 Mag.


Cheers!

Chas.
Logged

Captain Sir Charles A. Lyerly, O.B.T.
Soldier of Fortune and Gentleman Adventurer
wire: captain_lyerly, at wire office "Yahoo dot Qom"

"You'd think he'd learn."
"Heh! De best minions neffer do!"
Captain
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 12:17:43 am »

You might want to keep an eye on Ebay for old Wilson Safety Glasses.  Apparently they have been around a while(?)  http://www.flummery.com/anti/board/allmsg.php3?id=0&pid=&days=&js=&lang=en 

A good dispensing optician should be able to replace the lenses including to your prescription and tint choices. 

How about adding a "bayonet?"  I keep toying with this idea for my Navies/Metros. 



I still don't have a nice (cheap) pinfire in my collection.   Undecided
Logged
Dr. Madd
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


Maker of Monsters


« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2011, 05:50:08 am »

I have a cap and ball single shot .50
Logged

What do we want? Decapitations!
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2011, 11:40:48 pm »

Well I'm now about 90 or so pages into the tacked 'guns' thread .......wow , what a creative bunch here , mucho respect for alot of you fine people and your creativity .

I've been thinking hard about what direction I want to pursue with the "Steamy Dragoon" project , and am leaning heavily to the layout of a revolving rifle.
Something along the lines of these , more so the bottom example:



I'd like to take and lengthen the existing barrel to a total of 16" ( to negate the need of a Class III -SBR tax stamp ) that would include a fairly fancy , integral muzzle break/front sight . . .  probably with some sort of jewel mounted on a hooded post.
Replacing the barrel entirely was my first choice , but upon closer inspection , it seems these Walker's barrels are integral with the front block/frame . . . .


. . . . and would necessitate cutting the existing barrel from the frame ,chucking the  frame into a lathe or mill , and boring/honing the frame for another barrel to be installed with a few thou interference fit .( then probably pinned)
 Not completely out of the question , as a larger ( forward of the frame) combination fluted-hexagon barrel would look beautiful if done proper . . . especially with a fancy muzzle break , also , if pursued that way , would be integral as well .

Decisions , decisions , decisions ( sigh )

The other , more 'cobbed' method would be to turn and mill a barrel extension .

I could retain most of the features I desire with another barrel , however it would be no where near as accurate as an entirely new barrel.

 I'd basically still have a 9" long barrel with an 8 to 10 inch long barrel extension , relieved in it's bore to give approximately twenty-thirty thou clearance for the slug, and   having a counter-bore the diameter of the barrel from 1" to 3" long .........possibly longer providing I can get enough lathe time to insure it remains concentric with the pistol's bore .

However I do it , the barrel's total length , including brake , would be just over 16" .

I would also fab a floated , 'beaver-tail' type fore-end from the same type wood as the rear stock , mounted on a rail , running under the barrel , that would be bolted solid to the frame where the ram-rod previously mounted .

 Kind-of similar to the front end of a Thompson Contender , except when viewed from the end , this fore-end would resemble an upside down 'T'.

As far as the rear stock goes ,  I'm leaning towards something much curvier than your run-of-the-mill rifle stock. . . a number of examples were demonstrated in the tacked thread , executed quite nicely , I might add , by the talented members here. ( It was those particular member's projects that pushed me towards the rifle conversion with THIS project )

Yet another route that I'm leaning towards , in fact quite heavily , is the period correct Schutzen target rifles . Especially around the rear stock and fancy , swoopy , trigger guard , along the lines of this beautiful Winchester High Wall .



The Schutzen , single-shot , black powder cartridge target rifles of the late 19th and early 20th century , in my opinion anyways , have a very classical-sexy , and quite steamy look to them . I've been a fan of them for many years  , and now that I think of it .  .  .  I'm surprised I didnt think of it earlier  Undecided

The more I think of it , a Schutzen-Dragoon revolving rifle,  with about an 18-20" barrel , and a heavy 'steamy' feel to her , might just be what I'm longing for .


Your thoughts?


Logged
eruannu
Snr. Officer
****
United States United States



« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2011, 03:21:48 pm »

I'd like to take and lengthen the existing barrel to a total of 16" ( to negate the need of a Class III -SBR tax stamp ) that would include a fairly fancy , integral muzzle break/front sight . . .  probably with some sort of jewel mounted on a hooded post.
Replacing the barrel entirely was my first choice , but upon closer inspection , it seems these Walker's barrels are integral with the front block/frame . . . .


. . . . and would necessitate cutting the existing barrel from the frame ,chucking the  frame into a lathe or mill , and boring/honing the frame for another barrel to be installed with a few thou interference fit .( then probably pinned)
 Not completely out of the question , as a larger ( forward of the frame) combination fluted-hexagon barrel would look beautiful if done proper . . . especially with a fancy muzzle break , also , if pursued that way , would be integral as well .

with replica/antiques not sure about the whole class III stamp thing. you might look that up in the regulations.  it sounds like you are thinking in the right direction though,  a heavy barrel on a open frame revolver like a colt is a bit scary.  after several hundred rounds colts start to shoot more loose anyway, the stress of a longer barrel cannot help. it may start shooting loose earlier.  the first time you pull the trigger and the chamber does not line up with the barrel well enough it will be eyeopening to be sure.  if I was to build a revolving carbine I would go with a closed frame option like a Remington model.  the issue of balance is negated by a longer barrel.  when the Remington starts shooting loose it is usually a worn cylinder and not the frame which is at fault. 
Logged

“I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” Nikola Tesla
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2011, 03:44:43 pm »

Good point on the heavy barrel Eruannu . . . and thanks for the info on open framed models loosening after time.

I dont plan on shooting her much , she will probably be a looker , hanging on the wall after I put a few rounds through her . Generally , I spend what little time I have playing with my modern weapons ( AR15's , 700 Rems , etc) I have a really nice Pedersoli replica Sharps that I dont think I've put twenty rounds through  Sad

 I wonder about bridging the top of the Walker's frame though ?  Maybe with the frame modified so as the cylinder could be removed by sliding the pin out the front maybe , similar to SAA Colts and Ruger SA revolvers . . . . . .that would indeed be a lot of mods now  Shocked
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 04:43:20 pm by Gunslinger67 » Logged
JimMarch
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2011, 11:23:25 pm »

There's always my infamous gas-ejecting self-unloading Ruger New Vaquero in 357 (basically a replica 1873 Colt SAA):

Ruger SA wheelgun rigged with a gas-eject system! One-off prototypeDQ


http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30106.0.html

This didn't actually start out as a "Steampunk project" exactly...but at a certain point it was like "heck with it, might as well go with what it's turning into...".  Probably one of the very few cases of "accidental Steampunk" Smiley.

The next step is the addition of a high-cap spring-loaded-tube mag feeder that plugs in to the left of the hammer, retained by a release switch.  Extra "magazines" of anywhere from 6 to 24+ (?) rounds could be added at any time, on top of whatever is in the cylinder.  It would start stripping rounds out of the mag only once the first empty revolver chamber hit the loading point.

Run the tube dry, no problem, swap tubes in the same time it would take to swap semi-auto magazines.

In other words, you'd draw it loaded as normal with five (hammer on empty) or six rounds, and at any time you can clip in more rounds.  You can even do so at the point where the hammer drops on an empty.  Stuff a tube-mag in, cock it, the empty advanced to the gas-eject position, and a live round is now under the hammer.  With tubes of maybe 8rd or so (a foot long) the whole bizarre thing would actually be very street-practical, offering firepower exceeding that of a Glock or 1911, esp. if you factor in the horsepower of either the 357Mag or 9x23Winchester calibers, both of which thoroughly spank the 40S&W or 45ACP.
Logged
Gunslinger67
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


Guerrilla Machinist


« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 12:35:47 am »

Jim March , that is too dang cool .  .  .  and quite steamy too  Cool

 I've a Super Blackhawk in 44 and I'm half tempted to do the same thing . Very nice .
Logged
JimMarch
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 04:17:54 am »

In .44 the rims would be too big.  You've have to clearance a LOT of metal.

In 357 the ejection side is clearly possible but the "tube input side" will be damned tight.  It *might* be possible.  Not 100% sure yet - it'll take some careful measurements plus a much more precise drilling setup.

In 9mmPara or 9x23Winchester things look much better.  Straighter feeding in the tube, and much more room to carve "funnel shapes" into the back of each cylinder bore.  A cylinder for either would run me about $300 but it might be necessary to take it to the next level.  (9mm and 9x23 are .355" wide - you can shoot them just fine down a .357 barrel, or you can reload 9mm/9x23 cases with .357 projectiles for absolute max accuracy.  The latter would be slightly "mutant" and would NOT be safe in a real 9mm or 9x23 gun, so they'd have to be clearly marked as to what they are!)

As an example, here's the back of a 1911 barrel with a 45ACP shell in it:



Photo by Gunblast: http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SR1911.htm

As you can see, a HUGE amount of the rear of the shell is designed to be un-supported.  This means a massive, aggressive "funnel shape" can be carved into the cylinders, making tube-based feeding much more practical.  The 9mm and 9x23 work the same way.

See the thread I have going on this critter for much more details, including the latest update to the gun's gas tube layout (far better cosmetics for starters).

Finally, if you were going to buy a brand new gun to do this trickery to, the best would be Ruger's factory "convertible" models with dual 357Mag and 9mmPara cylinders.  The 9mmPara (also known as "9x19" or the "standard" 9mm) can be cheaply reamed deeper to 9x23 if desired.  9x23 is interesting for reloaders because you can make new cases easily by chopping .223 spent rifle brass shorter Smiley, and it has 90% or more of the raw power of the 357Magnum.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 04:23:57 am by JimMarch » Logged
Otto Von Pifka
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States


goggles? they're here somewhere.....


« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 09:49:34 am »

are you sure the barrel extension negates the need for the tax stamp?
converting it to metallic cartridges bumps the gun up to real gun status from black powder status, doesn't it? then the frame as a pistol frame will always be a pistol frame.

I went round and round with the ATF years ago, trying to make a .30 carbine pistol. I finally gave up since they would tell me contradicting information every time they answered my questions.

anyway, back to the project! it would be neat to see a revolving rifle based on a walker, especially if you can add a little schutzen target rifle flavor to it. the small foregrip and the should grabbing butt plate would be a nice touch. I saw an older target scope that was in pretty good shape for $130 at a militaria show the other day, I should have bought it just to have it on hand.
shoulda coulda woulda. oh well.

good luck and keep us up to date on the project!
Logged
JimMarch
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 05:49:24 pm »

Quote
then the frame as a pistol frame will always be a pistol frame.


Nope.  You've got that backwards.  A rifle "frame" (or reciever or whatever) will always be a rifle.  A handgun however can be legally converted to a rifle, no problem at all.  As long as it fully meets the spec: it has to have a 16" barrel for a rifle, 18" for a shotgun and the overall length has to be at least 26inch.  And in a few states, doing this with the wrong gun might create an "assault rifle" (California?).

Disclosure: 2003-2005 I was the California grassroots coordinator and registered state lobbyist for Citizen's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA.org), a more radical breakaway org from the NRA and the political-action sister org to the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF.org).  I kinda know what I'm talking about here.

(Sidenote: I've always wondered whether or not it's proper to force midgets to comply with the 26" rule!)

Although you can turn a pistol into a rifle, there's some question left as to whether or not you can go back again.  BATFE issued a special ruling for the Thomson Center series of single-shots, saying that somebody who has the handgun setup can also swap barrels longer and add a rifle stock, and then go back to pistol...but they tried to make it clear this was a ruling for that class of gun only...whether that means "Thompson only" or "single shots only" is unclear.  And why they could say that with that gun and not others is unclear.

It'll get sorted out eventually.  One key thing: I would strongly recommend doing a pistol-to-rifle upgrade with a pistol you can prove original ownership of.  That way you can show that you've done your state's "extra steps" (as many states do) to get a handgun as opposed to a long-gun.

Percussion-to-cartridge-conversions are another thing with legal complexities.  Percussion guns aren't federally controlled - you can buy them mail-order, convicted felons can own them, etc.  Depending on state rules, there are in fact convicted felons in the US legally using 1858 Remington replicas as home defense guns and the like.  But companies like RD and Kirst Konverter:

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/

...sell cartridge conversion parts, some of which involve fully modern and readily available shells.  So you buy a percussion gun mailorder, one of those mailorder and bingo, you've bypassed the federal background check for a "modern" (well, sorta) handgun.  BATFE has noticed this!  They're pushing to have the conversion cylinders treated as "firearms" with their own serial numbers, last I heard.  Dunno what the status is.  There's a LOT out there already with no serial number.  At present, with this "loophole" happening, the legal status is that when you add the conversion cylinder you're "making a gun", which is actually legal.  You had better not be prohibited from possessing modern arms for any reason though (felon, temporary alien resident with no "green card", domestic violence conviction, dishonorable discharge, etc.).  I *think* you would also have a problem selling it.  To sell it you might be safest turning it back into percussion, selling that, selling the conversion parts separately.

This isn't just an issue in the US.  36cal percussion open-tops (replica 1851 Colts esp.) are in very short supply because a lot of 'em are being sold in the US, transported to Mexico (legally on both sides of the border as percussion guns) and then getting small-machine-shop-made 38Spl cylinders.  Because the 38Spl is a "sub-military-caliber" it's "less illegal" for Mexican citizens, they can usually just get away with a small bribe, and they're being pressed into defensive use Shocked.
Logged
Otto Von Pifka
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States


goggles? they're here somewhere.....


« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2011, 03:26:08 pm »

so would having a sholder stock on a black powder pistol with a short barrel be ok, but not with the metallic cartridge conversion?
the permutations are hurting my brains. Wink
Logged
JimMarch
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2011, 06:40:34 pm »

Quote
so would having a sholder stock on a black powder pistol with a short barrel be ok, but not with the metallic cartridge conversion?  the permutations are hurting my brains.


Yup.  Shoulder stock on an otherwise standard percussion wheelgun is fine.  Remington 1858 patter, Colt 1851 or 1861, or anything similar.

One teensy problem though.  You have to worry about "constructive possession" issues.  Sigh.  This is really screwed up.

Say you have a Remington 1858 type in .44.  It has the standard percussion cylinder in it, it's bone stock unmodified.

Across the room is a shoulder stock.  Not attached.  No problem so far.

In yet another drawer or whatever is a Kirst Konverter cylinder and other parts to turn the Remmie into a cartridge gun.

Again: each of these three sets of parts (gun, cylinder and conversion bits, shoulder stock) are over 6ft apart from any other.  Or they're in separate rooms of the same house.

You can STILL get popped by the feds for a felony.

Yes, for real.  You CAN assemble an illegal combination of bits.  You're in "constructive possession" of a short-barreled rifle if all three are assembled.

Angry

If you think I'm kidding, believe me I'm not.  This is actually a common type of bust where semi-auto rifles are in one room of a house, full-auto conversion parts are in another room.

To fully understand how ghastly US gun control enforcement has become, and how we got here, I recommend the book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross:

http://www.shtfinfo.com/shtffiles/books_and_reading/Unintended_Consequences.pdf

Unintended Consequences
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.661 seconds with 15 queries.