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Author Topic: Association for Cryptozoological and Metaphysical Enlightenment or ACME  (Read 2566 times)
tophatdan
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 06:03:07 pm »

is it possible that wilfred brimley is infact a cryptozoological creature?

like bigfoot...
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Dr Fidelius
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2010, 06:13:53 pm »

Possible, yes.  However, historically there have not been very many reliable reports of were-walrus.
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 06:20:13 pm »

You're welcome lol

I personally would be against tourism, prefering a more Secret Saturdays or The Sanctuary slant to keeping cryptids.  Perhaps even so far as Warehouse 13 and Proof... that is bag it, tag it, move it to secure and hidden local
So you'd rather have it captured/killed, examend and hidden for the public?
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tophatdan
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 06:22:59 pm »

i happen to study wilford brimley i know everything there is to know about his lore.

for instance did you know that the wilford brimley only eats quaker oats, or that there have been atleast 72 recorded mass sightings of the wilford brimley since 1969.

 it has been speculated that should one encounter the wilford brimley in the wild, one should avoid eye contact and distract the wilford brimley with diabetic testing supplies.

 remember, wilford brimley can enter your home without warning through your television or your mail box, he is to be concidered highly dangerous and under no conditions should one look dirrectly at his stache... wilford brimley can kill!
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Everett R.I. Krowley, III
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2010, 06:51:15 pm »

You're welcome lol

I personally would be against tourism, prefering a more Secret Saturdays or The Sanctuary slant to keeping cryptids.  Perhaps even so far as Warehouse 13 and Proof... that is bag it, tag it, move it to secure and hidden local
So you'd rather have it captured/killed, examend and hidden for the public?


Well remember I said secret saturdays/sanctuary first.  They were about helping/keeping secret. The sanctuary only captured them if nessicary.  Killed,no.  Someone else mentioned such before I.

But yes. Hidden from the public. If the public knows, they'll want to see it, take pictures of it, touch/pet it... to make sure they don't do anything stupid tours would have to be set up, perhaps even parks so knowlegable guards can be posted to keep the creature and the gawkers safe.  So yes I am for hiding it from the general public.  Remember what MIB said: a person is smart. People are dangerous,panicky and stupid
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2010, 07:07:34 pm »

IIRC. Didn't a country pass a law saying it was illeagal to hunt/trap/kill their Crypto. beast?
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Everett R.I. Krowley, III
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« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2010, 09:19:13 pm »

I wouldn't be surprised if one did.  and, I do apologize but being an anal-retentive nerd about things... the proper term is Cryptid

X_X again, I'm sorry
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tophatdan
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« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2010, 09:50:16 pm »

there was somewhere in canada where a fellow was suing the local wildlife office because they had listed his hog farm as mating grounds for endangered species, on that list of endangered species was sasquatch...

this was years ago, i remember seeing it on unsolved mysteries back when robert sack was still alive and hosting.
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2010, 08:03:16 am »

You're welcome lol

I personally would be against tourism, prefering a more Secret Saturdays or The Sanctuary slant to keeping cryptids.  Perhaps even so far as Warehouse 13 and Proof... that is bag it, tag it, move it to secure and hidden local
So you'd rather have it captured/killed, examend and hidden for the public?


Well remember I said secret saturdays/sanctuary first.  They were about helping/keeping secret. The sanctuary only captured them if nessicary.  Killed,no.  Someone else mentioned such before I.

But yes. Hidden from the public. If the public knows, they'll want to see it, take pictures of it, touch/pet it... to make sure they don't do anything stupid tours would have to be set up, perhaps even parks so knowlegable guards can be posted to keep the creature and the gawkers safe.  So yes I am for hiding it from the general public.  Remember what MIB said: a person is smart. People are dangerous,panicky and stupid

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with Secret Saturdays/Sanctuary. But I disagree with you on hiding it for the public. The Cryptids (thanks for the proper term Everett R.I Krowley III) are often situated in a remote area, mostly a park. So no need to set up parks and guards because they are already present. We just have to improve and educate the local park rangers.
I believe the public is ready for cryptid discoveries. There are so many films, shows and articles about the supernatural that it is becoming "comon". People accept discovery of new species eaven extraterrastual. Ofcourse there will alway be a group of people who are afraid or want to do harm to it, but that also goes for comon wildlife.
I also think that, when a limited tour (like a safari or whalewatch) is introduced, people would easier except and appriciate the new found species.
There is just one thing. All that I mentioned above can only be done after a selected group of scientists investigates the nature of the cryptid. How does it behave? How does it react to humans? What's the proper distance to observe or can we observe at all without tampering with it's existance? This part has to be done in secrecy, hidden from the public.
There is also a step in bitween. That is, showing lots of pictures or film from the cryptid. Don't tell the exact whereabouts of the creature, but in stead point out a vast area (preferably a national park) as it's habitat. This way the public knows something is there, but wouldn't bother looking for it, because there is already footage of it.
This is an interresting topic. Not just because of the mistery of cryptids, but also the human reaction to the subject. The way I see it is that, looking back at recent history, mankind is more aware about nature and the risponcebility we have towards nature. Recent cryptids like for instance Narwals are protected by law. Endangered species like tigers, rhinoes, buffaloes, eagles can also be protected, so why not Sasquatch or the Lochness monster?
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Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2010, 04:29:20 pm »

Well, most places that have laws protecting endangered species tend to have criteria describing how a species is determined to be rare, threatened, or endangered. Frequently, there are population criteria, considerations of range, and some determination of what kind of animal is being described. For example, while coyote-domestic dog hybrids are less common than coyotes, they aren't really of any concern in terms of rarity, since both dogs and coyotes are fairly abundant in many parts of the US.
If you take something like the Sasquatch, there is no consensus on range, numbers, or species description. We have no idea if they even exist, at least in the same way that coyotes, peregrine falcons, or sockeye salmon exist. And for that matter, if they do exist in some objective sense, are Sasquatch from the Pacific Northwest even the same species of big-ass anthropoid as the ones in the Texas woods, or do they need to be described separately, at least as much as chimps and bonobos?
So there is little point in trying to file a totally un-described creature under an act meant to protect known endangered species—it would only tend to weaken protection for real species.
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Everett R.I. Krowley, III
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2010, 04:41:36 pm »

Bicyclebuilder. You do make a good point, cryptids are usually found in already protected areas... kinda makes you wonder lol.
I agree. The creatures do need to be studied but I'm just not sure about the whole tourist thing tho. Whale watching is one thing but a .. I dunno... bigfoot tour akin to a photo safari... just seems like trouble waiting to happen



Secret saturdays was a great cartoon that was about a family of "secret scientists" out to protect crytpids and all sorts of other stuff.

Sanctuary is on syfy, formally scifi, about a network of places that protect Abnormals, which are creatures we'd consider myth and legend... and then some. Its pretty awesome.
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GallowsHumor
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« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2010, 07:53:17 pm »

The lack of recent reports of kraken indicates one of two things to me:

1) they are a sensitive deep-water species who dislike the vibrations created by modern ship's engines and therefore rarely if ever come near the surface anymore.

or 2) they are a clever species who have learned to leave no witnesses.

I know which alternative I prefer.

I've always been of the opinion that the mythological Kraken was much more likely a variety of giant octopus than squid, myself.
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2010, 11:13:34 am »

It's been a while since I've posted on this tread. Looking back to the comments I can say this:
Most people want to know (scientifically) if a Cryptid is real or not, but don't want it to be public.
Research is wanted, but no tourism.
Most people want it protected by law, but say it is impossible for various reasons.
All things that contradict. So don't look for a cryptid, deny it's existance, tell about it but neather confirm nor bust the myth?
If that is what mankind would have done since it's existance, we would still believe the earth was flat.
Who's for making this tread a "what if" scenario? Starting with the search for, lets say Nessie. Then the actual find (or bust). Then the exploitation/research/protection.
For starters: what if we were going to look for Nessie? What obstakles we have to overcome?
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Arvis
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2010, 06:16:04 pm »

For starters: what if we were going to look for Nessie? What obstakles we have to overcome?

 The lake.
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Everett R.I. Krowley, III
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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2010, 11:44:33 pm »

My forte!

The loch is 24 miles long and about 1 mile wide in places. 900 feet deep.  Due to the amount of silt and other debris one has trouble seeing clearly past 9 feet down.  Add to this the (supposed?) Existance of an underwater cave system that could not only connect to other lochs (loch moran, iirc has had monster sightings) but to the sea itself.
Postulating that it conects to the ocean one can see why its been so hard to sight and track. It could very well not even be there in the loch.

This, however, makes it difficult in-so-much that if that Is the case then nessie can't be an air breather because she'd have to surface far more often... and air pockets and caves can only do so much in hiding members of an air breathing population
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 08:48:38 am by Everett R.I. Krowley, III » Logged
bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2010, 08:16:51 am »

So hypotheticly, we would need a fleet of small sonar equiped subs to comb out the lake and it's surrounding bodies of water.

What about DNA? Nessie or a population of nessies have to poop and pee. Should n't there be DNA in the lake from an unknown species?

Air pockets and caves big enough for a Nessie can be explored and mapped. Place a sonar or camera in the entrence of the caves to monitor.

Hypotheticly, money and recources are limitless. Think like the budget for putting a man on the moon.
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Everett R.I. Krowley, III
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« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2010, 08:45:31 am »

So hypotheticly, we would need a fleet of small sonar equiped subs to comb out the lake and it's surrounding bodies of water.

What about DNA? Nessie or a population of nessies have to poop and pee. Should n't there be DNA in the lake from an unknown species?

Air pockets and caves big enough for a Nessie can be explored and mapped. Place a sonar or camera in the entrence of the caves to monitor.

Hypotheticly, money and recources are limitless. Think like the budget for putting a man on the moon.

small? *snrk* what would be best would probably break the loch up into grids and have a sub exploring each grid.  The problem with THAT is that too MUCH disturbance wouldn't attract but rather scare Nessie and Family away.

As for DNA, true, there should be... residue... left behind from them, however, how can we tell just WHAT that may be.  If Nessie IS a prehistoric species we have no idea what their scat might look like and after a while one can figure it would dissipate into the water.  Same with Urine, it would dilute into the water.  Now, add to that the native species of fish, eels and whatever else slips into the loch, sure we could say "look for what -doesn't- belong" but again, such natural wastes are water soluble and will disappear over time.

The problem with finding the cave entrances is just that.  You have to find them.  The silt and dirt in the loch make it hard to do so.  In fact, the silt and dirt are so much so that the bottom of the loch is suspect in its actual texture and shape.  Silt settling down makes a V shape into U if you get my meaning.  thus sonar and radar could give false readings.  Also, there is the saying that the Loch doesn't give up her dead.  The reason why no bodies have been found is that every thing sinks and gets stuck in the silt.  Nothing floats to the top, even when a body inflates due to natural gases after death.

Now, I've played Devil's Advocate (a favorite past time of mine it seems, I've been told i should have been on the debate team in High School, ah well), it's time I bring some ideas and help to the conversation.

In ... 6th to 8th grade... I had a plan for an expedition to loch ness.  this expedition included sonar beacons that would be planted along the walls of the loch that would do their sonar-thing and send the data back to the submarine I was designing (based off the horseshoe crab's shape, with grabby arms).

I see no reason not to make use of the deep-sea exploring 1-2 man subs used in all those documentaries we see about the see-through-and-light-up creatures of the deep.  If they're built to go THAT deep, they can surely survive Loch Ness' depths and temperature.

secondly, a net of sonar buoys would be optimum.  an invisible dragnet of sorts, allowing all area's of the loch to be scanned while the sub(s) are in different parts of the loch, perhaps also allowing near-real-time following of whatever large creatures inhabit the loch.

As Nessie, or whatever other monsters are in the loch (I recall there being reported something of a giant snail-like thing, as well as Nessie *shrug*), is know for also moving OUT of the loch (perhaps to lay eggs?), having a sensor net around the perimeter of the loch would be a good idea.

I also suggest weather balloon based cameras to give us aerial views of the loch, for when/if Nessie breaks the surface or if anyone tries to sabotage our expedition.

Any and all cameras NEED to be more than just normal view.  I suggest Night Vision as well as Infrared heat cameras.  High speed as well.  naturally the highest resolution we can get (since our hypothetical budget is limitless).

Our expedition would probably have to be a year-long at least, to cover all seasons and hopefully catch Nessie doing something on a yearly cycle.  It could be that over the millennia Nessie and her brood have evolved from whatever they were.  Say they WERE a pleisiosaur.  That's an air-breathing aquatic reptile... but we know that Nessie is seen far LESS than should-be if that were true (even LESS if Nessie were some sort of unknown aquatic mammal, either totally unknown or some offshoot species of a known one).  Perhaps they've evolved into water breathing, with vestigial lungs for things like laying eggs or traveling over-land to other bodies of water... like some gi-normous lungfish of sorts (... now THAT is a scary thought).  We could be looking at a multi-year cycle, which could explain why we aren't over run with Nessie and her kin, they don't breed EVERY year.  Hell, we have no idea how long dinosaura (again if Nessie is one) LIVED.  Nessie could easily been over a hundred, or two.

One thing I CAN say is that, for safety sake, NO ONE in the expedition should do any sort of diving outside of a sub.  Even then I'm a little leery as those subs are small and Nessie is... not.  one small sub, one angry Nessie... *shiver* ... I do hate to say it, while I prefer to just study the creature in its natural habitat and all, preferring to keep its existence secret until it can be protected and preserved (and redneck ponces across the globe don't get it in their heads to come a'hunter fer Nessie trophies...), any subs we put in the water should be armed with some sort of self-defense system.  While theatrical, perhaps something akin to the Nautalus' electrical grind might be a good idea.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 08:47:33 am by Everett R.I. Krowley, III » Logged
bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2010, 10:38:44 am »

I've found a website that summs up the searches and "findings".

Like Everett says: "The reason why no bodies have been found is that every thing sinks and gets stuck in the silt.  Nothing floats to the top, even when a body inflates due to natural gases after death."
So, explore the silt. Use deep-sea exploring 1-2 man subs to collect samples.

Would x-ray work thru silky, muddy water? Or infra red? Can't the millitary take detailed pictures?

To find the caves we should need some sort of poking stick to feel the area. An autonome robot like the mars explorer (but a aquatic fish-like version) could scan the area. Sounds pretty steampunk to me.

Sabotage and hunting will always be there. I believe we have to arm ourselves, but not to much. More arms, seems like you have something to hide (witch we do). There are numerous search expeditions over the years and to the public, this would be "just another". A low profile would be less conspicuous.

Your explaination for the determination of Nessie sounds plausable. There should be more than one Nessie because I don't think only one Nessie lives for that long. I think it's more like 90 to 120 years. Looking at whales who live for approx. 90 years. Elephants for about 70. One Nessie doesn't make sence. But... can a flock/hurd/group of Nessies live on the relative small area of the loch? Is there enough food and space to create a perfect habitat for Nessies?
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Atterton
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2016, 10:06:24 pm »

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the...well, murky congolese rivers. Turns out they are populated by squids that attack people's canoes and suck their brains out through their nostrils.

http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=201506294390.congolese_brain-sucking_octopus
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VampirateMace
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« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2016, 04:35:14 am »

Hmm. Some serious threadromany here. I'd like to keep it revived though, plenty of interesting things to discuss.

I think if we intend to prove a cryptid real, we'd have to aim for a [no kill] capture. Think of all the 'photo evidence' that already exists, all of it gets dismissed. A live animal might be a bit harder to dismiss.

Haven't there been articles lately suggesting Nessie had died (and apparently it was the only one)?
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RJBowman
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« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2016, 05:35:00 am »

Sorry; it's too late to keep Wilford Brimley safe in a sanctuary; the public is reminded of his existence every time Cocoon goes back into rotation on basic cable.
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