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Poll
Question: You are cordially invited to attend a Philosophical Rendezvous at the Lion and Snake, Lincoln, on the evening of Saturday 11th September 2010.
Yes, I would be delighted to attend - 3 (25%)
I may call by for a short while if possible - 2 (16.7%)
I will be in Lincoln but have a subsequent engagement - 1 (8.3%)
Not interested - 2 (16.7%)
Not in the UK on that day - 4 (33.3%)
Total Voters: 12

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Author Topic: Philosophical Rendezvous @ Lincoln (Ex Steampunk Spirituality?)  (Read 3588 times)
Lord Nicholas Horsethorn
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Anomalographer Royal


« on: August 20, 2010, 10:10:25 am »

Edit:

As there's only 7* sleeps left to Lincoln, I'm making another attempt to drum up interest in the Philosophical Rendezvous!

Philosophical Rendezvous poster

Please come along! I'll be there from about 7(ish)
Lord Nick

*As of 3rd Sept

Original Post:
I'm going to lay the blame for this post squarely at the feet of all you posters out there, who have made me think entirely too much.

Perusing wonderful threads like 'Steampunk is a citrus fruit of your choice', and 'Conversational elements designed to persuade young ladies to step out with you', and as a poster on another messageboard for the spiritually inclined run by a public broadcaster, I thought:

Do your views on Steampunk, and your views on faith/religion/spirituality/etc inform each other? Does one proceed from the other? Is one a framework for moral and ethic decisionmaking, and the other just a load of old books? Does your steam and spirit mesh together or do you view the universe as mechanistic?

Does your faith follow a victorian path? C of E or Methodism, perhaps? Or, similarly to (a large part of) the world of Goth*, are you a pagan or new-ager, eclectic or initiate?

I'd be fascinated to hear your views and opinions

ht

*in my opinion, obviously!
/Original
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 09:51:09 am by Lord Nicholas Horsethorn » Logged
David Godfrey Esq.
Zeppelin Captain
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Its probably best not to ask really...


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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 10:15:04 am »

No.

And I'm reluctant to go into any more detail as discussing religion violates the forum rules.
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Lord Nicholas Horsethorn
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Anomalographer Royal


« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 10:31:51 am »

And I'm reluctant to go into any more detail as discussing religion violates the forum rules.

 Embarrassed Does it? I read through the rules before writing it. Could I get the opinion of a Mod, please?

ht
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akumabito
Immortal
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~~Blast from the past~~


« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 10:44:02 am »

We really need a clear post of all the forum rules.. I looked for it, but I can not seem to find the same rule in writing either. As I understand it though (and I've been around for a LONG time), religion/politics are a no-no to discuss on this forum to avoid them degrading into flamewars and the like.. (as so often happens on too many other forums)
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TimeTinker
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 11:27:57 am »

Religion was expressly forbidden from  relatively early on in the board's history until earlier this year just as politics and modern firearms were.  These rules have been relaxed a little and the guidelines were changed a few months ago so their exclusion is no longer explicit.  Many older hands are uncomfortable with discussion of these topics.  They were banned because they inevitably descended into arguments and flame wars.

It seems that technically you can have the discussion but many people will be wary of it.  This is the lighter side of steampunk after all so what about a change of tack or another topic?

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markf
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 11:31:05 am »

The banning of religious and related discussions is listed in the BG mission statement:

"Brass Goggles aims to be both neutral and civil and as such does not allow political or religious themed discussion due to the passionate and irreconcilable flamewars that this can cause.  Much as you would not bring up politics or religion at a Victorian dinner party unless you knew well the temperaments and openness of your companions, you should not broach these subjects on this public forum where civility between strangers is sought".

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1629.0.html
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akumabito
Immortal
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~~Blast from the past~~


« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 11:42:05 am »

Ah! I knew it was still there somewhere!
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Lord Nicholas Horsethorn
Snr. Officer
****
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Anomalographer Royal


« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 12:09:34 pm »

It seems that technically you can have the discussion but many people will be wary of it.  This is the lighter side of steampunk after all so what about a change of tack or another topic?

My apologies; I was hoping that posters' natural politeness would prevent any unpleasantness!

I shall think more and create a replacement OP.

ht
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Judicator
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This Is My Fancy Picture Caption Quote


« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 12:57:23 pm »

Bummer. I was actually interested to see what religions different steampunks are.
It cant be helped though...:/
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Lord Nicholas Horsethorn
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****
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Anomalographer Royal


« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 01:59:27 pm »

Bummer. I was actually interested to see what religions different steampunks are.
It cant be helped though...:/

Agreed - I would, too, and (as I said above) I would have hoped that posters' politeness would quash any 'my god's bigger than yours' disagreements, but...

As a change of tack, how about opinions on how/whether the steampunk retro-future having really happened would have affected spirituality? Do you think that massive (but possibly wierd/apparently 'magical') mechanisation would have altered the views of (a) major and minor religions and (b) the average person in the street?

Subject to the Mods' consent, of course!

ht

(Maybe the OP is something to discuss over brandy & cigars at Lincoln?)
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akumabito
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~~Blast from the past~~


« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2010, 02:16:26 pm »

The following post contains strong views on spirituality in the SP universe. Do not read if you can not handle it or if you are easyly offended when it comes to such matters.

Note to the mods: feel free to edit/delete this post if you deem it necessary in order to "keep the peace" on this forum.. Smiley

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:18:23 pm by akumabito » Logged
Judicator
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This Is My Fancy Picture Caption Quote


« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 02:55:39 pm »

Bummer. I was actually interested to see what religions different steampunks are.
It cant be helped though...:/

Agreed - I would, too, and (as I said above) I would have hoped that posters' politeness would quash any 'my god's bigger than yours' disagreements, but...

As a change of tack, how about opinions on how/whether the steampunk retro-future having really happened would have affected spirituality? Do you think that massive (but possibly wierd/apparently 'magical') mechanisation would have altered the views of (a) major and minor religions and (b) the average person in the street?

Subject to the Mods' consent, of course!

ht

(Maybe the OP is something to discuss over brandy & cigars at Lincoln?)
My thoughts exactly...something that I like about this forum is that the users/members arnt immature imbeciles (pardon my language) like on a great deal of other forums.
I have really learned to appreciate the mature, adult way most things are handled (that is, when we are not destroying each others zepplin fleets) it really makes you love steampunk, and its participants, even more.

But hey, if the mods say no, the mods say no.

As to your question...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 05:48:24 pm by Judicator » Logged
Dr. Zedrich Heretic
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Canada Canada


Air-shipwright and commander of the Reaper’s Gale


« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 04:46:14 pm »

In following Akumabito's example, following the spoiler is my opinion on faith in the SP universe, which also can be seen as a reflection of my opinions on faith in the real world.  Don't read if you may become offended by these opinions and Mods are welcome to remove it if they feel it necessary to prevent heated argument.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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But the bard songs will remain..."
Jemima Annabelle Clough
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When you're tired of tea, you're tired of life


« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 05:31:49 pm »

Hopefully this post by Proteus will clarify things somewhat: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26007.msg581498.html#msg581498

the relevant bit being
Quote
There is a separate rule prohibiting off-topic discussion of politics -- which is almost all discussion of politics. Again, exceptions are made for discussion of politics as directly related to steampunk (e.g. politics in works speculative fiction) or the relevant period (e.g. period politics' influence on writers like Jules Verne).


For politics, substitute religion.

So long as you all continue to keep this strictly related to steampunk, and remain polite about it all, then it can stay. If it descends into general religion or it is felt that steampunk is just a veneer over general religious debate, then it gets locked.
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markf
Goggleologist
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United States United States



WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 05:35:21 pm »

Ms Clough is spot-on in what she says.  Also note Aku was doing a mighty fine job in keeping the thread on track and not getting into religious specifics which could offend people of faith (of which I am not).  The forum guidelines are mighty straightforward on this matter, as BG "does not allow political or religious themed discussions".  It doesn't say such thoughts, even if they are logical and well reasoned, are ok if covered by a spoiler. Telling us what you think Christ said/meant and providing an alternative interpretation of meaning of faith healing is a pretty iffy stuff regardless of how well intentioned or the advanced warnings provided. markf
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Dr. Zedrich Heretic
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Air-shipwright and commander of the Reaper’s Gale


« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2010, 06:14:45 pm »

All faith, even lack there of, is a deeply personal thing.  This is why on most forums I agree with the no religion/politics regulations.  But I also feel that sharing such ideas in a free and open manner without being antagonistic about it, can be an enriching experience.

My comment was just a brief overview of some of the philosophies I've thought about in regards to the fiction that I write.  The point about faith healing was more to illustrate the idea of a middle ground between faith and science.  I include religion and faith in my science fiction simply because it is my opinion that they are not going to disappear anytime soon and the same can be for how I write in Steampunk.

I could have tried to make that clearer in my original post but I wanted to keep things brief and the potentially inflammatory opinions to a minimum.

Perhaps we should use this thread to establish an alternative venue outside of BG where we can hopefully discuss such philosophy civilly and in greater depth?
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Atterton
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 06:19:20 pm »

You could certainly make some interesting stories based on what would happen if those people who were creating machines to talk to spirits had succeeded.
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Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2010, 06:39:24 pm »

Just to keep the "Lighter Side of Steampunk" to the fore, TA Edison, amongst others, is said to have attempted communication with the dead via some sort of technological device, although it is unclear if he actually tried this, or if this was a media hoax: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/Hoaxipedia/Thomas_Edison_and_his_Spirit_Phone/ for a brief summary.
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Atterton
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2010, 06:48:36 pm »

Which I´m sure means someone will soon be along to say Tesla not only made such a machine but had dinner with ghosts every sunday.
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Lord Nicholas Horsethorn
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Anomalographer Royal


« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2010, 09:59:43 pm »

Perhaps we should use this thread to establish an alternative venue outside of BG where we can hopefully discuss such philosophy civilly and in greater depth?


If it is permitted, I'd make this suggestion:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding the alternative development of techno/religion, there's also the what-if of faeries being real; fairy-dust guns et al, Would the reality of faeries have an influence?

ht
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Atterton
Time Traveler
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2010, 10:04:30 pm »

I think they allow religion discussion on The Smoking Room, which is also a steampunk website.

With faeries it would depend on wether they would be sentient or more like little flying monkeys.
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Vellorian
Deck Hand
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United States United States


« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2010, 04:27:15 am »

For me, the idea of religion and politics *in an alternate Steampunk reality* are fascinating.

I rather think that people--particularly those with a scientific bent--will invent religions and rituals based on their new understandings.  Hence the rise of (as I believe someone else has mentioned) the religions of the Aether.  I look at Warhammer 40K and the "dark gods of the Warp" as an example of this.

As a former Astorphysics student, I assure you that there are very strong "religious elements" within modern academia and science.  Of course, if we don't subscribe to those beliefs, we tend to castigate it as "superstition" -- which is exactly what the people in our alternate Steampunk realities would do, as well.

Now, if you add an element that the Steampunkers are actually tapping into a spiritual source of power for their "weird science" devices, then they become the "mages", "shamans" and "warrior-priests" of the world...
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Pike
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2010, 05:16:18 am »

Some sort of aether based cult/religion im positive.

Indeed; in my steampunk-inspired NaNoWriMo novel I insinuated something along these lines.  It was an alt-universe so I was able to be more free with it, but I had characters saying phrases like "thank the aether" and the like... the whole idea of the sky and its mysticism was actually a sort of plot point so I liked how I was able to tie that in.

You could do a lot with various sorts of beliefs in a steampunk universe.

(Also throwing in my two cents that this discussion should be okay since we are talking about fictional religions more than anything... but mods feel free to change/delete/whatnot if you feel otherwise.)
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Atterton
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2010, 01:02:37 pm »

I don´t see why the existence of aether would cause a religion to spring up, any more than dark matter is doing today. However existing religions would probably see it as a way to justify certain aspects of their beliefs. Same as how we see certain scientific concepts being jumped upon today by new agers or other religious groups. Professor Lisa Randall has talked about how she has often been asked if hyperspace could be where people go when they die.
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Miss Teri ablaze
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2010, 02:40:25 pm »


(Maybe the OP is something to discuss over brandy & cigars at Lincoln?)

I'd be most interested to discuss the OP at Lincoln - and being a high minded lady I wouldn't mind the Brandy (for medicinal purposes only of course - why I feel a slight cough already!) but I'll pass on the Cigars thanks ;0)
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