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Author Topic: A possible new type of Airship Soldier...  (Read 11451 times)
MatthiasKoenig
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« on: April 09, 2010, 07:00:04 pm »


 Hello all,

 This is more of a random thought, brought on by thinking what a group of "marines" could do on an airship, besides repel attacks and being used as air to ground units by means of gliders, planes, etc.

 What about a group of highly trained troops that would use the principle of the flying squirrel(or in modern parachuting, the "glider" suits with the fabric attached under the arms and between the legs) either leave an airship at a higher altitude, or by some type of plane from an airship attached to the wings, bomb style, to be sent against airships to either board or sabatoge the opponent?

 If this subject has been broached, feel free to direct me that way, as I am interested in perhaps making a character based on this type of special unit.

 Cheers and fair winds.
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 07:23:09 pm »

 You mean like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Arvis
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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 07:36:02 pm »

  Grin Well, hopefully they would be past that stage of research and devolpment Arvis.

 The other thing I was wondering about, instead of having a massive parachute if/when they overshot their target too much, how small could one make a parachute that could still slow a person down enough to keep from being injured upon landfall?

 I will try to find a picture of what I am thinking of.

 Here we go....like this, but modified for combat purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 07:39:13 pm by MatthiasKoenig » Logged
Atterton
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 08:26:35 pm »

Hopefully the squirrel suit should be enough to slow them down enough that they won´t need a parachute. In the League comic, there´s kite-men that Fu Manchu uses to attack an airship.
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 08:28:34 pm »

An old (altered) illustration along similar lines, using clockwork wings : Smiley

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Maj. Clive Hathaway
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 08:29:06 pm »

There was a thread a few months ago regarding the nomenclature or what you would call "Air Marines", wherin we discussed their possible roles, deployment etc. I'd always envisioned them much like you've said here, but also as being air- to- air troops, boarding enemy aerostats and derigibles. Theyd deploy on large kites or hang gliders or some such. Stephen hunt describes a similar type of manouver at one part in his book "Rise of the Iron Moon".
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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 10:19:25 pm »

 Atterton, Cap. Harlock, and Maj. Hathaway...

 Thanks so much for the info....I will be doing some more in-depth research towards this end, especially the Air to Air tactics. This was something I had a dream about....mostly brought on by watching one too many Miyazaki films one right after the other. I know it sounds...cliched...but ever since I was about seven years old(I'm now thirty-five), I've had recurring "flying" dreams...mostly under my own power, but sometimes in some sort of contraption. Unfortunately, I've never really been able to afford, for this reason or that, either skydiving or flying lessons.

 I will have to check out the chap that flew the English Channel in a wingsuit...it apparently took him 14/15 minutes to do it, but I don't know if he employed some type of 'chute at the end of his flight.

 I am no artist by any means, but I might try to either find someone who can draw it, or get in touch with some of the members of this forum in order to depict the type of trooper that is floating around in this oversized cranium of mine(and it's not oversized from having a larger brain...it's no doubt because of a thicker skull Grin).

 Cheers and fair winds

 Edit: Never mind on the English Channel flight....it was more of a modified "wingpack" that this man used....I'm thinking more of a flightsuit with the traditional wingsuit design...flaps that could slow and/or permit flight...less of a backpack, and more an intergal part of the suit...hmmmm
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:27:13 pm by MatthiasKoenig » Logged
Voltin
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 10:27:56 pm »

We could always take it one step further and employ steampowered rocket boots in addition to a wingsuit.

Take a look at this rather looney toonish stunt  Wink

Wingsuit flying with rocketboots - CRAZY!


I love this stuff!
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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 10:43:23 pm »

 I LOVE it!!

 No offense intended to our Finnish brothers and sisters on here, but this is just the kind of insanity that we need in this world!

 I know theydid a ton of research on this before they implemented it(I hope), but that could have so easily turned into a Wile E. Coyote moment!
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Capt. Dirigible
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 11:28:50 am »

Quote
Hopefully the squirrel suit should be enough to slow them down enough that they won´t need a parachute


Oooh I dunno though. The squirrel suit doesn't look particularly aerodynamic to me!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2010, 01:27:00 pm »

That made me chuckle!
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Capt. Dirigible
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2010, 02:31:46 pm »

That made me chuckle!

Then my work here is done... Wink
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Steampunk Sid
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2010, 03:30:33 pm »

 I am thinking about making a set of these for my airship pirate but more brassy and leathery than 'furry' Smiley http://www.instructables.com/id/Articulated_Wings_my_version/
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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2010, 04:22:45 pm »

That made me chuckle!

Then my work here is done... Wink

 Well done.... Grin I guess that's what I get for mentioning the flying squirrel.
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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2010, 04:35:58 pm »

I am thinking about making a set of these for my airship pirate but more brassy and leathery than 'furry' Smiley http://www.instructables.com/id/Articulated_Wings_my_version/


 It would be interesting looking, no doubt. I like that idea, but I'm also wondering from a engineering standpoint if keeping as few joints and screws in the suit as possible would also mean fewer things to go wrong(failure points, stress fractures, etc.). Of course, having a "wingsuit" setup would also mean if their was a tear or failure in the attachment of the underarm or middle of the leg...gussets, I guess you could call them...would cause a catastophic failure that would result in injury or possible death for the operator.

 There are, oftentimes, many different machines that are dependant on one or two pieces that will cause catastrophic failure of the entire unit if they are damaged enough. Perhaps this would be why those soldiers are better compensated, either financially or whatever. I know more than one friend who is a member of Covert Operations that doesn't do it for the money or glory or whatever...they just do it because there is a place in the military that utilizes those talents or desires.

 At any rate, thanks again to everyone for everyone's input...I will still be pursuing this, so any other ideas are more than welcome.

Cheers and fair winds!























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hardlec
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2010, 05:52:29 pm »

The primary function of Marines was to provide security aboard a ship, and to fight in ship-to-ship boarding actions.  Some upstart in the colonies, (John Paul Jones?)  upset good order by having Marines go ashore as ground assault troops.  

Oh well, you can’t un-ring a bell.

Aboard her Majesty’s Airships, Marines would still provide security aboard ships and still serve as boarders or to repel boarders.  Marines would still man one or more of the ships weapons.  (It’s a Marine thing.)

An air Marine will need to be able to move between ships, from ship to ground, and from ground to ship.

Moving between airships may not be like moving between sailing ships, using ropes to grapple, and using ropes to “swing” between ships.  It may not be possible to keep another ship alongside by force.  

Flying suits may be a possibility, but I would not have them tied to the Marines’ arms or legs.  The limbs should be free for fighting, landing etc.  Something like strap-on glider wings?

Parachutes might be employed as well.

Autogyro backpacks might create the right visual appeal:  A propeller on the back, and a rotor above the Marine’s head.  Now, you and I know there is no possibility of getting enough power to the propeller to make this zip about like a dragonfly, but you could do a bit of powered gliding and make soft landings on earth.

Now, if you are going to have the lads hit the actual dirt, they will need a squad of support personnel, probably  air sailors, to set up hot air balloons to get back up to the airship.  

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2010, 08:31:36 pm »

lol

In the fictional-history that developed the Aerial Dragoons, the (to-be expected) c*ck-up at the Ministry led to Airship crews having Naval ranks, but the "dragonfly" wing-pack soldiers assigned to them having Army association, thus, Aerial Dragoons, not Aerial Marines.  (An analogous historical  issue led to modern-day tanks having "hulls", not "bodies" or "shells")

This anomaly led to a great number of Cavalry sabres being "accidentally" broken in practice, and re-ground by the Regimental Armorer as cutlasses, and the private-purchase of large numbers of repeating pistols and shotguns from former-Colonial sources.

Smiley
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pakled
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2010, 12:31:09 am »

So there could be a '101st Aerobourne?...Wink

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MatthiasKoenig
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2010, 03:46:49 pm »

The primary function of Marines was to provide security aboard a ship, and to fight in ship-to-ship boarding actions.  Some upstart in the colonies, (John Paul Jones?)  upset good order by having Marines go ashore as ground assault troops.  

Oh well, you can’t un-ring a bell.

Aboard her Majesty’s Airships, Marines would still provide security aboard ships and still serve as boarders or to repel boarders.  Marines would still man one or more of the ships weapons.  (It’s a Marine thing.)

An air Marine will need to be able to move between ships, from ship to ground, and from ground to ship.

Moving between airships may not be like moving between sailing ships, using ropes to grapple, and using ropes to “swing” between ships.  It may not be possible to keep another ship alongside by force.  

Flying suits may be a possibility, but I would not have them tied to the Marines’ arms or legs.  The limbs should be free for fighting, landing etc.  Something like strap-on glider wings?

Parachutes might be employed as well.

Autogyro backpacks might create the right visual appeal:  A propeller on the back, and a rotor above the Marine’s head.  Now, you and I know there is no possibility of getting enough power to the propeller to make this zip about like a dragonfly, but you could do a bit of powered gliding and make soft landings on earth.

Now, if you are going to have the lads hit the actual dirt, they will need a squad of support personnel, probably  air sailors, to set up hot air balloons to get back up to the airship.  


All good points, to be sure....Again, my only issue with a backpack setup would be that you have more than one failure point, but you did bring up a good point about a lack of power ...something that I was thinking about as well when I thought of the wingsuits.
 The problem of mobility for fighting I think is one of the obvious problems with this design....I need to do some research on the wingsuits and see just how mobile a person in one is. 
 One other thing I was thinking of was for the missions in which an airship would be sabatoged. A smaller, collapsable glider could be put in with the kit, and when the troopers were ready to disembarke, they could deploy these to escape the subsequent buring airship....although that could be more easily accomplished by jumping from the airship, gliding away on the suit, and deploying a smaller parachute or some thing to that effect...
 I was wondering about the support personelle on the ground as well. This may sound a bit too gung-ho, but if these troopers are deployed in force, there would be less need for a balloon to take them back up, as this tactic would be used in concert with Ground Troops to take the position....much like the various parajumper units are used now....as a disruptive and diversionary group that would attack the enemy from one side while the rest of the fighting force were attacking from another. Which is why I seem to be harping on this design....I wouldn't want to be gliding in on a large glider or coming down on a type of autogyro.....too much of a target for the ol' seventy-fives and door-knockers....get in quick, cause as much chaos as possible, and make sure the wine stores are properly reconoitered before the brass can get to it.... Grin
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H. MacHinery
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2010, 04:00:58 pm »

Obviously, if your troops need to be able to return to altitude, you need something like a panel of cavorite.  It can be turned on edge to minimize the lift effect and allow descent, and when laid flat, provide vertical lift to return to the base ship, or repeat a dive.
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2010, 04:04:52 pm »

Go Fast Jet Pack @ Spaceship House Patio
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Atterton
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2010, 05:57:04 pm »

It might be good to use something similar to the cape Batman wears in the Batman Begins movie. I´m not too sure how well that could be done using victorian technology though.
A similar idea that might be doable at the time, would be to use a piece of canvas with hollow tubes running through it. Inside could then be a non-newtonian liquid such as custard, or oil filled with metal shavings. For the latter, it could be turned from stiff to soft using an electromagnet. This might be strong enough to be used for gliding, but I have no idea.
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hardlec
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2010, 02:33:48 am »

A "rocket-man" backpack might be able to make a round trip to the ground and back.  Maybe not.....  In the real world, Rocket packs had about 90 seconds of fuel, and the fuel was extremely dangerous.  Still, it worked for James Bond, so in the eyes of popular culture anyway, it works.

The idea of a Para-suit has potential, but it also has limits.  Since I watched the Movie "The Gypsy Moths" I am reminded of the MPFC line: "Notice how they do not so much fly as plummet!"  Still, hang gliders and para-sails do work, and the potential exists, as well as the visual appeal. Anything that uses a non-Newtonian fluid has to be good. 

An Auto-gyro can auto-rotate and allow a soft (more-or-less) descent, but the potential for a "plummet" is considerable.  According to Murphy, each moving part will cause a catastrophic failure eventually.

What does the OP want?  I could support any choice as having enough potential for a suspension of disbelief with a minimum of adapting the Universe.


Oh:  I really like the idea of an inter-service mismatch causing a jumble of nomenclature. 
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ahti
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2010, 05:49:06 am »

I support the idea of a cable/grappling mechanism. it has a grounding in history, though swooping into a combat situation is fantastic.
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Atterton
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2010, 06:30:22 pm »

There´s those things where you have a parachute and a large rotor on your back that allows you to fly. For short distances, perhaps that could be done by using a wind up rotor.
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